claim form IND/Heggarty on old Lloyds (5 and a half years) credit card debt***Claim Dismissed***

[Miscreant]

I think it was a re-arrangement with a 3rd party stepping in and making payments on my behalf.

 

These payments stopped and a fair amount of time passed in which Lloyds

and an apparent DCA who was actually a subsidiary company of Lloyds were repeatedly contacting via phone.

 

It could well have been IND who were calling, who ever it was was given the cold shoulder and told I was not there.

 

This went on for months and months getting more frequent until I wrote the letter to Lloyds in May 2009.

After that letter all phone calls and contact stopped dead, whether it was IND or not.

 

Most of the records I had are now lost due to various house moves and leaving the country and returning again.

After activity stopped I thought it was over.

 

I should have sent a Notice of Estoppel after 28 days of my last correspondence but I did not.

[Guest]

seems as if were in a dmp/dmc then?

 

did you mention that before?

 

need to find out then when they last paid anything.

 

q remains, have you tried finding things out by speaking to loyds, as seems the last payment and comms were to loyds.

 

'notice of estoppel', how is/was that relevant?

[Miscreant]

They never let me enter into a debt management programme but they froze the interest and accepted payments of £50 per month from a 3rd party.

Just need to find out when the last one was.

 

Notice of estoppel would have been to finalise it in 2009.

 

20+ phonecalls a day.

Letter sent asking for verification/validation of the debt and informing that until received,

all collections activities must cease.

Phonecalls stopped.

 

 

Lloyds simply dropped the whole matter and did not call or write again.

I was at the address for another year and a half before moving away and in that time they did not contact about it.

That must have been down to my letter.

 

Notice of estoppel was to end the matter after Lloyds having fallen into dishonour by not responding to my letter or making any further correspondence.

[batty69]

So I either contact Northampton Court tomorrow by telephone and inform them of the 28 day extension granted and then apply for a statutory credit report to establish the exact details of the movements of the account.

Or I plough on with the "statute barred" defence backed up with the "no holding/paperwork" defence and deny entering into any agreement with anyone and hit them with that via email tomorrow, within my original deadline?

 

 

Preferably the former,

but I am not to sure at this stage if the logistics would allow you to have your 28 day extension without risking something going wrong re the deadline.

Best that someone else advises here

 

Assuming it's too risky or too late to go for the extension, then the 2nd thing is just about right, but with the following caveats.

 

Be careful not to state the debt is statue barred, use the claimants own POC's to state that it is statue barred.

 

2nd, I'm no fan of the straightforward no paperwork holding defence, sounds too much like you have no defence at all.

 

My preference with this is to go for the jugular and have as a defence something along the lines off,

The claimant has made no contact with me in the past,

the first I had heard of them was this court action,

they have provided no documents to show I have ever owed a debt to them or of any debt assigned to them.

Therefore to my knowledge no debt exists between me and the claimant.

 

The key thing above,

is do not go into what's and why fors of your Lloyds debt,

you will tie yourself up in knots and will reveal your hand to the other side.

 

 

What you are aiming for and you are totally within your rights to do,

is dispute if IND have ever been assigned any debt for you.

 

 

Just because they mention the Lloyds debt, doesn't mean they have it!

how do you know it's not with another debt collecting company ? (it's probably not, but neither are you 100% sure IND have it)

 

The key thing is to neither admit or deny anything, especially if you don't know what there hand is.

Use their own POC's against them to register a defence.

 

In terms of wording, don't quote what I have given above verbatim.

Be concise and technical, i.e. the claimant has provided no notice of assignment, blah, blah,

I am not aware of any debt between myself and the claimant.

 

Best thing I find about this defence,

is that not only do you keep your hand concealed,

you will find that there is a good chance that in the judges order

he will force disclosure on the other side using his own volition

(well he did in my case)

 

Can you give us the history of any contact you had with IND before the court case,

as your defence will need to be consistent with this.

[Miscreant]

I have had no contact with IND prior to the court case other than a reply for my request for a cca which was made after receiving the claim form.

2 letters were returned unopened from my parent's address with "not at this address" written on them. This was done in my absence.

I am not in possession of any other correspondence from them.

 

Possible defence?

 

Defence

 

1:The defendant has received no contact from the claimant and is only aware of the claim through the issue of the claim form

 

2:The defendant has not been provided with documents to prove the existence of any debt nor any proof that the claimant has any right to be making any demands upon the defendant.

 

3:The claimant is claiming for an alleged debt of ****.** as 3/1/08 and for interest calculated from that date. The claimant’s claim was issued on 5/9/14.

 

4:The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

5:The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to payment of ****.**or any other sum or relief is denied.

[batty69]

Sounds about right, but best wait till Andy gives his approval.

[Miscreant]

Ok I feel pretty confident about this now. Might be worth explaining that I have allowed time for cca to be presented to me hence why my defence is submitted at this time.

 

Also how do I go about using the Defendant's email option to submit my defence? I don't see an email address on any of the forms.

 

Thanks again.

[dx100uk]

you email the court not the claimant

 

 

if MCOL details are lost

 

 

dx

[Miscreant]

Ah ok. I found these on their site:

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

I assume I use the 1st one and give full details of Claimant and Defendant, claim number and issue date. Should I include the particulars of the claim? Or just put in exactly what I have detailed above?

 

Is it worth entering an introductory paragraph and a closing one for the benefit of the clerk who is having to read it?

[citizenB]

Telephone the court and advise that you are sending them your defence by email.

 

Ensure that you have all the claim references in the subject line and also in the body of the email.

 

Claim Reference.....

Parties to the claim :... Claimant v Miscreant

 

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (date).

 

2 The Claimant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO, if you believe the claim to be statute barred, you only need the statute barred defence - it is then for the claimant to prove otherwise.

 

I will ask andyorch to look in on you.

[Miscreant]

Based on the evidence they have presented in the particulars of claim it appears to be statute barred. I have stated many time already that I was in correspondence over this issue until may 2009, just NEVER with IND and no payments have been made since 2008 and no payments made to IND ever!

 

2 debt collectors wrote to me in 2009. I have found my responses to them and both were along these lines:

 

Dear *********,

I am in receipt of an entirely inappropriate letter from your company dated ** ***** ****.

 

Have I entered into any contractual agreement with you or your company as I do not recall doing so.

If you are in the belief that I have done so then I would suggest that you find such a contract and present it to me and if you are unable to do so may I suggest that you stay out of my personal affairs. The account you make reference to is in dispute and has been for several months as I am still awaiting a reply to my communication to your client which was sent back in May!

 

You client has an obligation under the Consumer Credit Act to provide me with documents, upon request, that confirm the validation of the alleged debt which they have created. I have recently made a further request to your client to provide me with these documents but they have clearly failed to inform you of this.

 

All of these letters have been sent by registered post and I have proof of their content and of their delivery.

Ignorance is not acceptable at this point.

 

Are you aware that attempting collections activity on an account that is in dispute is illegal?

Your two letters have been documented and already stand as being illegal harassment from your company.

It is not my job to tell you the legality of of certain tasks you may choose to undertake but now I have informed you of these details you have legal obligations that you will dishonour if you contact me any further.

 

Please tell your client to respond to my communication and to do so promptly as they are standing in dishonour. Also please take better measures yourself to ensure that you do not inadvertently end up acting in an illegal and dishonest way.

 

I never received a response after these letters were sent. Neither did I acknowledge the debt as being mine.

 

IND are claiming the alleged debt from a date prior to these letters which were sent from different companies. IND did not write to me at that point.

 

It is my firm belief that I have no debt with any of these companies and that any debt created is fraudulent and fictitious in its nature whether it is statute barred or not.

 

I understand what you are saying about the statute barred defence being watertight and all powerful but I do not trust IND (or any other DCA) and I am fully expecting them to play dirty.

 

Surely if the alleged debt turns out to be statute barred then that line in my defence will enough but if I put all my eggs in one basket then I may not have much come back unless I am able to reformulate my defence upon the potential revelation of new information through the incompetence of the DCA.

[citizenB]

I have asked andyorch to look in on you.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Nothing illegal in chasing, selling, a debt allegedly in dispute, it's not unlawful either.

 

 

Even if a debt is SB in England & Wales it still exists and all collection activity can continue short of court action.

 

 

The " guidance" on this is that "it is considered unfair to continue to press for payment (of a statute barred debt) once the debtor has informed the creditor that the debt is statute barred and they (the debtor) will not be paying, do so may amount to harassment".

[batty69]

The thread is starting to go off tangent a little, Miscreant has formulated his defence and ready to submit.

 

he has no docs, and it's too late to get them before the defence needs to be submitted.

 

he needs a defence in which he neither admits or deny liability, but gives him the most leeway going forward.

 

He is going to use the statue barred defence, but also wants a second line of defence as it's not 100% guaranteed that he is outside the 6 year limit.

 

I've gave him some pointers and he has redrafted the defence.

 

He just needs someone just to give it a second opinion to make sure he isn't over-reaching himself.

 

Defence

 

1:The defendant has received no contact from the claimant and is only aware of the claim through the issue of the claim form

 

2:The defendant has not been provided with documents to prove the existence of any debt nor any proof that the claimant has any right to be making any demands upon the defendant.

 

3:The claimant is claiming for an alleged debt of ****.** as 3/1/08 and for interesticon calculated from that date. The claimant’s claim was issued on 5/9/14.

 

4:The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation acticon 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

5:The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to payment of ****.**or any other sum or relief is denied.

[Miscreant]

In response to BRIGADIER2JCS

 

Understood and noted and yet the letters I sent proved effective to halt all action up until this latest episode. They did not write back and tell me that I was wrong, they just gave up.

 

I understand that they can write and claim whatever they wish based on whatever flimsy or non existent evidence they may claim to have.

 

It is only because it has now been brought into the playing field of the court that I am having re-engage my attention onto this. I tried to seek legal remedy but I did not receive a reply.

 

There is no proof of claim. This whole affair is a farce.

[Miscreant]

Done!

 

I'll let you know what happens.

 

Thanks for all your help guys.

[AndyOrch]

Only just got to you miscreant....Defence has gone so lets see what transpires.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[batty69]

Done!

 

I'll let you know what happens.

 

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

Don't forget, you have no docs still, have no idea of how strong or weak your position is.

 

You need to start getting your ducks in a row.

 

Here's my advise for what to do next

 

1) have a good read about IND on here, get an idea of who and what you are against

 

2) if you have

 

 

1) you will see they will ignore every request for the docs.

Don't wast too much time on it, but at least make a token attempt for the docs so you claim later on they have refused to give them to you.

 

3) get your docs, best way is go back to lloyds and SAR them.

 

4) keep us updated on here. The defence is not the end of the work, the defence is the start of all the hard work you will need to do to win this.

 

5) keep us updated!

[Miscreant]

After 3 and a half years this has resurfaced in the form of a letter from IND.

 

Page 5 of this thread should be enough to get up to speed on the particulars of this case.

 

In response to my defence they claim that:

 

1: I was sent a letter (which I did not receive) and asked to reply and did not, resulting in the claim being made against me.

 

2: They have sent me what they claim is a copy of the CCA but it is not a true signed copy, just a print out of a Lloyds CCA

They also include a statement which shows the final payment being in December 2008.

 

3: They state the debt figure

 

4: They claim the debt is not state barred as the claim was made in September 2014 and the final payment was December 2008, therefore it was within 6 years of the last acknowledgement of the debt.

 

5: Again they state the debt figure.

 

 

This has taken 3 and a half years, in which time I have heard nothing.

 

I do not the believe that the CCA is valid.

 

I have no other correspondence as yet from anywhere.

 

What would be my best course of action here?

[AndyOrch]

Is this just a letter ? What do they ask you to do ?

[dx100uk]

Well I'm pretty sure you could reasonably argue that the is NOW SB.

A stay of 3.5yrs is a bit naff.

[Miscreant]

They do not ask me to do anything.

 

They just offer their points as listed against the points of my defence.

 

They say it is not statute barred as the claim was made within 6 years of the final payment.

Edited April 27, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[AndyOrch]

So not threatening to make an application to lift the stay or strike out your defence ?

[Miscreant]

No threats. They simply list the points in order against the points of my defence.

 

At the bottom it reads:

 

If you do not understand anything that has been sent to you we would recommend that you seek independent legal advice.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "an application to lift the stay"

 

I sent my defence in October 2014. This is the first thing I have heard since then.

[dx100uk]

Not the claim..The debt

im sure any reasonably minded judge ( if this ever got back to court) would understand that because the claim had been stayed for 3.5yrs it now in effect has no bearing upon stopping the sb clock

 

These are the kind of stunts ind pull but always fail

 

Pers id ignore them