Natwest notice of posession proceedings. - help

[kken67]

Browsing for another reason found info that has worried me.

 

Presently on a dmp and have 2 bank accounts, one with halifax and 1 with RBS.

 

To my knowledge none of my creditors are linked with Halifax but i have a large debt to natwest.

 

Can they access my RBS account for funds to put towards their debt.

 

I have heard about banks doing this but can they access funds in a bank that is under the same umbrella but not actually the same bank.

[cerberusalert]

Bank of Scotland and Halifax are part of the same company Halifax Bank of Scotland (HBOS)

Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS or RBOS) are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ORGANISATION with ABSOLUTELY NO LINKS TO HBOS in any way shape or form.

[zingy]

Where you asking that, or where you wanting to know if natwest could access your RBS account?

Pretty sure they would be able to as they're both part of the RBS group.

 

 

Also, for the future, if you want to know which banks belong to the different banking groups then take a look at the following: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/article.html?in_article_id=440726&in_page_id=7

Edited February 22, 2010 by zingy

[kken67]

I did want to know if Natwest could access my RBS account. I was aware that they are part of the same group but didnt know if they could just cross pilfer from me. Looks like i cant use the RBS account then:x

[cerberusalert]

They can offset between a/cs within the same group yes. You could open a parachute a/c with an unrelated group such as the Cooperative. They do a basic a/c without overdraft facilities or a chequebook, but they do provide a Debit Card with Visa Electron & direct debit facilities + you can use any Post Office to pay-in or withdraw.

[cerberusalert]

See; The Co-operative Bank | Cashminder It offers online banking too.

[kken67]

I have received an interim charging order from Eversheds as a result of a ccj on a loan with Natwest.

 

Just a bit of background info - This loan is for £9000 and £2000 overdaft.

However both are part of a dmp with CCCS which is up to date (they get £70 per month).

 

A few months ago i started getting letters from Eversheds requesting the full amount and i rang Natwest credit management to find out what was going on explaining that we were paying the debt back though our dmp.

 

The natwest person said not to worry as it was probably just because our review with cccs was overdue.

We got the review updated and payments continued.

 

However, they still went for the ccj and had it awarded.

I cant afford to have it set aside.

 

They have then gone for a charging order which is scheduled for 18th November.

I contacted Eversheds asking why they are doing this and they wrote back saying they clients just wanted to secure their debt, that they had no instructions to force a sale and natwest had no intentions to do so. What do I do?

 

There is little if any equity in our house and our first mortgage is actually with Natwest!

We do also have a second charge with Nemo.

 

We have 12 other creditors although we are most indebted to Natwest for this loan.

 

I have 2 adult children still at home both in full time education.

My daughter is 20, in college but she has special educational needs and medical problems.

However we do not get any child support for them because of their ages.

 

We went this route with one of our much smaller creditors and their charging order was refused.

 

I think i have read somewhere that subsequent orders cant be granted to another creditor but i may have that wrong.

 

I obviously dont want them getting the charging order as they could just change their minds and go for an order of sale but, I am worried then that they will just get tough and try to make us bankrupt instead out of spite for not getting their way.

 

Any advice as to what to do next.

 

I will get the ball rolling by trying to get the hearing transferred locally if I can.

 

Can anyone help?

[cymruambyth]

Hi

 

Did you defend the court action, did you go to the court case and finally what were the terms of the judgement, did it allow for instalments? Have you been paying anything towards the judgement?

 

It is possible to defend a CO application, but potential success will depend on your answers to above.

 

Although it may be futile, it is always worth defending 'just in case', also if you are in court you can ask that a part of the CO states that there can be no order for sale as long as payments are maintained.

Finally, is the debt in just one person's name or both names? If it is in just one person's name when a property is jointly owned, the CO can only be a restriction.

There is a sticky by sequencii with lots of information on COs, also read the fact sheet from Debtline etc (all the factsheets on COs are the same)>

Goos luck

[kken67]

Background

- I have a DMP with CCCS and one of the creditors is Natwest for £10,000. (This equates to a third of my total unsecured debt).

The payments to CCCS are up to date and they pay them £67 a month.

 

A few months ago I received a letter from Eversheds re this debt and rang Natwest credit management to ask them why when the payments to them were up to date. They said that it was probably because my review with CCCS needed updating and just to sort that out and everything would be fine.

 

This I then did only to receive a notification of a CCJ being awarded.

I did not receive the papers for the court case but after I got the notification,

I wrote to Eversheds and asked them what was going on as this debt is being paid by CCCS.

 

The guy there said that Natwest were going for a charging order to secure their debt but that they had no instructions to force a sale, just that they wanted more security.

 

I told them that I hadnt received the CCJ court papers (they were awarded by default) but please could they reapproach Natwest and ask them to stop any further proceedings.

 

I explained there was little if any equity in the house,

I have 2 kids in full time education,

one of whom has special educational needs and medical problems

and plenty of other creditors.

(My kids are actually adults at 18 & 20 but are in college and uni)

The solicitor guy just said that having other creditors was irrelevant as they would be informed and havent objected!

 

I have been waiting over a week now for him to get back to me after seeking further instructions from Natwest but he appears to be stalling.

 

The hearing is a week today for the final charging order and I am wondering if he is stalling so I run out of time.

I have contacted the court to request the case is moved to our local court and am waiting for a response.

 

Also, I had another creditor try to get a final charging order a couple of years ago but the court disallowed it as they could see we were trying to repay or debts.

 

I read somewhere that if a court refuses a final charging order for one creditor it cant then agree it for another but I cant find this now. Am I right here, does anyone know?

 

Half of me thinks I should just let them go ahead because I am worried that they will then apply to make us bankrupt instead.

Do you think this is likely?

I truly believe the solicitors are just after their fees so are not keen to get the case dropped.

 

Dont know how to proceed now, any advice bearing in mind the hearing date is next Friday.

[Ganymede]

Is the loan agreement enforceable do you know? I.e. Do NatWest have a valid agreement and default notice etc.

 

If not then you need to make an application to set aside the original CCJ and quick and ask for it to be heard immediately before the FCO hearing.

 

Each FCO will be decided on its own merits so what happened previously won't count for much but its worth at least trying to argue it.

 

Its strange that you received a copy of the notice of hearing from the Court for the FCO but not a copy of the Claim Form or Default Judgment...

[kken67]

I did receive the ccj in default notice just not some court papers you get when they are going for the ccj.

 

I dont know anything about enforceable agreements etc, wouldnt know how to check or what to check.

 

Can I ask for the hearing to be delayed whilst I organise myself better as I really dont know what I am doing.

 

Does anyone think they will just go the bankruptcy route if I contest this charging order or do you think it would be better to let them have it and get the judge to say they cant force a sale.

 

I dont know what to do next, and could do with someone to steer me through.

[Ganymede]

If it turns out that the agreement is not enforceable then their claim would fail and the CCJ and FCO will go away.

 

It depends if you're up for the fight and a Court appearance or not.

 

Having the CCJ set aside rewinds the claim to the beginning to allow you to defend it.

 

As I said you can apply to have the CCJ set aside as you weren't served with the Claim Form but if I was the Judge or the Claimant I would question why you got a copy of the Judgment and the FCO hearing date but not the Claim Form. A set aside isn't guaranteed.

 

If they set aside was granted you would have to request copies of your signed agreement, statements of account etc to see where you stand.

[kken67]

I guess I would question it aswell but I didnt get the court forms. Can I get the hearing postponed so I can get these things done or is it too late?

[kken67]

Well, I have been trying to persuade the solicitors for Natwest to back down from going for the final charging order but got an email today saying the have considered my request but are still proceeding!

 

Background

 

Paying this debt at £70 per month (£10k) through CCCS, up to date with payments.

However, started getting solicitors letters about the debt in the summer so rang Natwest who said just get your CCCS review updated and things will revert back to normal.

 

Did this but solicitors still went for a CCJ.

I didnt receive the court papers or would have defended it but did get the CCJ notification with judgement in default for the full amount, then virtually straight away, an interim charging order and a date for final charging order hearing.

 

I wrote to the solicitors (Eversheds) asking why they have gone this route, it seems so unfair when we are paying.

I explained I hadnt got the court papers which they clearly didnt believe.

I then asked them to contact Natwest again and ask them to reconsider.

 

They didnt get back to me for 2 weeks so I rang, emailed etc till someone did respond and then got an email to say they are still going ahead.

 

Rang National debt helpline who said I could have gone for a set aside but these are very rarely granted if you do not dispute the debt.

 

They told me to apply to have the case moved to my local court which I have done and to apply for a variation order to be heard before the final charging order which would then become irrelevant.

 

Do you think I should be doing anything else?

Also, the solicitor has written saying that his client merely wants to secure their interest but they have no orders to force a sale and it is not their clients intention to do so.

 

 

Do you think that even if the charging order gets granted, I can have this comment enforced so they cant try to force a sale?

 

The house has little or no equity anyway, I have 2 adult children living at home in full time education and my daughter has special educational needs and medical problems but she is not a minor anymore.

 

I am so worn out by all this, my hair is falling out,

I cant sleep properly and I work a high stress job with challenging kids.

 

I feel like I cant cope anymore and am so scared of losing my home.

Plus my cousin died on Friday morning on the day of his sisters wedding so my whole family is emotionally turned over and I feel so guilty that I am worried about all this.

 

I have had the thought that at least my cousin is now at peace (and before anyone says anything,

I am disgusted at my train of thought)

 

I think I would feel better if I felt a little more secure that they wouldnt try to sell my home.

 

Any words of wisdom please, I am at the end of my emotional reserve:-(

[rebel11]

Thread moved to correct forum. Hi KK I've flagged this up, try not to worry.

[Ganymede]

Hi,

 

You have 3 options IMO:

 

1) Apply to set aside the CCJ due to you not being served then defend the claim. Ask for it to be heard immediately before the FCO hearing.

 

2) Apply for variation of the CCJ to an instalment rate and have it heard immediately before the FCO hearing. If granted this may prevent the FCO.

 

3) Let the FCO go ahead but ask for a term in the Order that no further enforcement action be taken whilst you pay £XX per month.

 

 

Is the debt joint or your own? Do you jointly own your home?

 

Thanks.

[Ell-enn]

Orders for sale are very, very rarely granted. As long as you keep making the payments there should be no further action taken on the charging order, the fact that there is no equity in the property would be a factor in your favour - i.e. there would be no point in them applying for an order for sale if they would not get anything out of the proceeds.

[kken67]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

The house is in joint names and actually the mortgage is with Natwest as well.

 

National debt helpline said it was probably pointless going for a set aside in our situation as they are very rarely successful.

We havent moved house etc so they cant see any good reason why we didnt get the court papers. I

am waiting for something from my local court about a new hearing date and will apply to them for the variation.

 

Still dont understand why they have done this as we havent missed a CCCS payment in over a year,

it seems so unfair and unnecessary.

 

I have begged and pleaded with the solicitors to no avail, we are clearly just an account number!

 

However, about 18 months ago another creditor did the same thing but we managed to persuade the judge to dismiss the fco.

 

I did read somewhere that once one creditor has been refused, then subsequent orders would be refused as granting them would be unfair on the previous applicants. Dont know if there is any truth in this though. Tbh, so tired of fighting I sometimes feel like just telling my creditors to take the house etc and we will just start again.

 

Paying over £800 per month in mortgage and second charge and renting would probably be in the region of £600 per month.

It is tempting!!

[eggboxy1]

kken67

 

Firstly, have a read of this thread, http://forum.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1839539

 

Secondly, you are not going to lose your house

 

Thirdly, you have to understand the reasons creditors go for Charging Orders on consumer debt is mainly to secure priority for that debt over other creditors as a CO even takes preferance over bankruptcy proceedings.

 

Once you add in a few other factors; such as less than 3 in every 1000 CO's ever progress to an OFS (and of those that do you will struggle to find any that are for consumer debt) plus the courts are almost duty bound to grant CO's if a creditor gets a CCJ (ie they are virtually impossible to stop) then you will begin to understand (and hopefully keep the rest of the hair you have!) that the situation is far from being as serious as you are perceiving.

 

Creditors, also, do not see pursuing a CO as a means of recovering repayment in the short term from people who are struggling financially. The reason for this is that they know they are extremely unlikely to be granted an OFS (as judges have far wider discretion on granting them than they do CO's) on relatively minor consumer debt (and by relatively minor I mean under £25,000.) So they pursue them as a form of insurance to obtain repayment in the future and despite all the threats they make about going for an OFS if you don't pay up they won't do so (check this site and see if you can find find anyone who has had this happen).

 

As someone who is a joint owner with an ex-partner who has a CO (Restriction) against her, I've seen her ignore ALL of her creditors and still nothing has happened. This is not luck or coincidence it's because once the creditor has gone the full hog to obtain a CO, then there is little else they can do if you decide not to talk to them (and you will see on this site its only those who do that get the hassle!)

 

There can, also, be an upside with a Restriction as you will read in the thread I have recommended. But above all please don't worry as the fear you have been through is purposely manufactured that way by creditors to extract the maximum amount of repayment from you that they can. Once you see past that fear and deconstruct the facts you will begin to get on with your life a lot better.

Edited November 23, 2011 by eggboxy1

[kken67]

A number of years ago due to stupid budgeting decisions, we got into arrears on our mortgage.

 

These arrears stand at 3.5k.

 

However, we made an arrangement to pay the contractual mortgage payment plus a little off the arrears each month.

 

I admit that since this time, we had a 1 month hiccup where i paid accidently 1 pound less than they wanted

and they saw it as breaching the arrangement.

 

However, they put a new arrangement in place and it has been paid religiously for at least 18 months.

 

At the end of last year they sent us a letter to say that due to the good order of the arrangement, we could capitalise the arrears.

I requested the paperwork but

 

when it came, the payment was going to be 30 pound less than we were paying on the arrangement

 

i thought we would be better sticking to the arrangement, thinking this would be better for us and them.

I didnt realise until 2 days ago that not going ahead with the captilisation was a problem.

The arrangement is paid through worldpay and never missed.

 

Fast forward to this Saturday and

 

we receive out of the blue a letter - 15 day notice of posession proceedings!!

I immediately rang them and got a guy who said it was due to not going ahead with the capitalisation.

I said but thats mad as we continued paying the higher amount as it would pay the arrears quicker.

 

I also reminded him that we had not broken the arrangement to pay which he could clearly see.

How can they penalise us like this?

 

I could understand if we werent paying but we are and above the contractual amount.

 

He says i have to send in income and expenditure details and they will take a look.

I admit, I got a bit frustrated and said if they took it to court, I dont see how a judge would rule against us

as we have kept to the arrangement.

 

Can they do this and what can we do to stop them.

 

I am so worried, surely a judge would not let them repossess.

 

Any thoughts!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,

Which mortgage provider is this?

Where you told the terms and conditions of the capitalisation deal?

[kken67]

It is Natwest and I am not sure about the terms of capitilisation deal as I didnt keep the paperwork.

 

I saw that we would be paying less and naively thought it better to keep plugging away at the higher amount.

 

I didnt say we would capitalise, just got the figures when it was offered.

 

If they want us to to this we would.

 

I just cant believe we are in this position having not missed a single payment in at least 18 mnths.

 

( My online banking with RBS only lets me go that far back).

 

Why would they do this?

[Old Cogger]

would that increase their profit over a longer period of time? if you did what they wanted?

[kken67]

I dont really know.

 

It just seemed obvious to me that it would be preferential for us both the way it was as the arrears would be paid back quicker.

 

I hadnt thought about them getting more profit if it carried on longer. Maybe they were looking for this!

 

Do you think a judge would go in their favour in this situation.

 

I am scared stupid now.

 

I havent been able to sleep since the letter for worrying but then I tell myself that a judge surely

wouldnt as it is quite clear we havent defaulted on this arrangement.

 

What do you think?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Has the mortgage provider placed a default on the account and reported this to the Credit Reference Agencies?

 

Were you told the consequences of not agreeing to the capitalisation of the arrears?

 

As you have otherwise kept to the "arrangement" agreed without fail I think a judge would find it hard to make an order for repossession immediately, however to secure the repayments a judge could make the order and suspend it as long as the repayment are made as agreed.