How the Bailiff gets paid?

[Talk sense]

I am surprised to hear you say that if you agree a payment agreement with the debtor that you do not receive a commission. That surely cannot be the case.

 

I am confused by your posts as I am uncertain whether you are complaining at the new fees being too low or whether your complaint concerns the way in which commission has changed with your employer. Would you mind posting back with clarification.

 

It is certainly the case.

Fees are great but the bailiff isn't getting them.

In fact they're higher than many cases pre April 6th

Employers will not pay on part payment.

And will only pay on arrangement on completion of the full debt.

Which can take months even yrs it's kept too.

However the bailiff company have already got their money sat in the bank off the good work we've done for free.

[kwackers]

It is depending on company.

But you make the point!

"Coming away with the full amount"

What if only half can be arranged??

And it's a single mum??

 

Because I only get my money in full payment do I

Push push push push

Or would it be fair to take what is fair and on offer.

Complete the documentation and offer a further arrangement?

And still be paid for doing a good job.

Being everything the MOJ want me to be!

 

But hold on I can't do that! Why???

Because I don't see a cent.

 

But on average I'd say £100 per case.

That's if compliance hasn't already been paid.

In that case you'd get less.

All companies pay differs but it is all around this figure.

 

Pre April

50% of fees

And part fees in difficult circumstances

 

Fees generally added to around £270

 

Exactly????

 

Can you see any sense in this.

 

Fees higher paid less??? Mmmmmm

 

Fishy

 

Ok, is that on top of your salary? Am I right to assume that if the debtor pays at the compliance stage, you personally don't see anything as you actually haven't got involved yet?

[seanamarts]

No you miss the point. Again

 

We all know this has went on in the past.

 

This is why a change has and was lobbied for.

 

My point which you've missed is very clear.

"This regulation change does not stop this bad behaviour or old bad practice"

 

What you should be able to retort with is.

 

"Well you can't do that no more" but you can't.

 

And by cutting people's potential earnings you risk this triggering poorer more cavalier behaviour.

 

I'm sorry, but I thought we all understood and appreciated that a change was needed because or poor bailiff practices in the past???

I don't condone it! But to believe that the new regs have driven this out is irresponsible on behalf of all debtors.

 

Shame on you.

 

And to misinterpret my message for greed and not for equality and fairness across the board. Only shows an understanding for your point of view and no other.

When these posts should be posted to "Marston" and such companies but more importantly a higher authority who will put a stop to this. For the benefit of debtors and the bailiff.

 

Ive missed no points, you have come on here angry at the fact that your income has been effected by the new regs and that you feel it is extremely unfair that you will have to change your life style, im reading between the lines here, you assumed that we are all anti bailiff on here when in fact we all want a fair system.

You are basically saying that the bailiffs who were thuggish will now become more thuggish and the ones who wernt will become thugs just to get what they are owed.

 

The fees were unfair in the past as I have explained, granted there were fair bailiffs in the industry, they earned a decent wage so whats the problem, You visit a house you get paid instead of having to wait until the whole debt is paid off, YOU get paid first. If a debtor decided to pay the council just what the debt was you are given your cut and the warrant is still valid.

The debtor isnt stung by a fictitious van fee on a first visit and have to pay extortionate amounts that a bailiff feels he must add on just to line his pocket.

You have a choice to be a bailiff, if you dont like it find another job that suits you better, other people manage it, hundreds change jobs all the time. You are no different.

[seanamarts]

If your company isnt paying you then complain to them, dont take it out on the debtor

[brassnecked]

I have to agree with seanamarts, but there is no compassion in enforcement, no easy way round or out of it, to paraphrase the Ayatollah Khomeini when asked about moderate Islam before his death, he replied "Islam is Islam", so therefore Enforcement is Enforcement.

 

How do you enforce for council tax arrears against a homeless person?

 

This is not a wind up, as along with these Liability Orders on the way to EAs there will be eviction notices for arrears caused by bedroom tax, so how do you get the arrears and compliance fees etc when the debtor is in a hostel?

 

And yes I am after a fair system for all, and I empathise with you regarding the pay, as in yhe distribution industry, similar things hapenned with Sub-contractors, where the companies lowered the rate per drop, fuel was going up in price, so I understand completely where you are coming from regarding income. Some routes became uneconomic, te subbies left, agency drivers brought in who couldn't hack multi-drop, and usually lasted a day or so.

[tomtubby]

Look, something is not right here.

 

I did take part in the Consultation Paper on Bailiff Reform and following the Consultation as a member of a Stakeholder Group I attended many meetings regarding the new regulations and I am looking now at one particular example of how the 'pro rata' split on payment arrangements should work.

 

For example:

 

Debt to creditor (local authority): £600

 

Compliance fee: £75

 

Enforcement fee: £235

 

Amount due: £910

 

EA agrees a payment arrangement with debtor of £75 per week

 

Compliance fee of £75 deducted from the 1st payment leaving an amount due of: £835

 

 

Weekly payments of £75 are split on a 'pro rata' basis (approx 70%) to local authority ( £52.50) and (approx 30%) to Enforcement Agent (£22.50)

 

As you will see from this example from the weekly payment of £75 per week the enforcement company should be retaining £22.50 per week. As to how much the employer will allow the actual bailiff to keep must be down to negotiation.

 

 

Note:

 

The 'pro rata' split is pretty complicated and naturally involved senior accountants and solicitors. The EXACT split is very slightly different from the above example but for discussions sake, the above example will certainly suffice.

[Talk sense]

Ok, is that on top of your salary? Am I right to assume that if the debtor pays at the compliance stage, you personally don't see anything as you actually haven't got involved yet?

 

No salary.

And yes correct

[kwackers]

No salary.

And yes correct

 

Ok. After I posted that one I realised that we were talking about self employment, so no salary.

 

So before April, for CT, the fees were 24.50 for 1 visit, a further 18.00 for the second. How much of that was yours?

 

If the case progressed, you could then add levy fees, removal fees and so forth. Not sure what your actual fees were as it was a bit of a mixed bag with different companies. What was a typical breakdown of your fees?

[Talk sense]

Ive missed no points, you have come on here angry at the fact that your income has been effected by the new regs and that you feel it is extremely unfair that you will have to change your life style, im reading between the lines here, you assumed that we are all anti bailiff on here when in fact we all want a fair system.

You are basically saying that the bailiffs who were thuggish will now become more thuggish and the ones who wernt will become thugs just to get what they are owed.

 

The fees were unfair in the past as I have explained, granted there were fair bailiffs in the industry, they earned a decent wage so whats the problem, You visit a house you get paid instead of having to wait until the whole debt is paid off, YOU get paid first. If a debtor decided to pay the council just what the debt was you are given your cut and the warrant is still valid.

The debtor isnt stung by a fictitious van fee on a first visit and have to pay extortionate amounts that a bailiff feels he must add on just to line his pocket.

You have a choice to be a bailiff, if you dont like it find another job that suits you better, other people manage it, hundreds change jobs all the time. You are no different.

 

The new regs havnt changed the job it's the appraisement of the fees by the bailiff companies .

The job hasn't changed.

I would suggest you are either a director or owner.

As only someone within that none effected capacity would give the answer of "go find something else".

ReAlly.... Why not pay fairly???

Isn't that easier than hundreds of bailiffs finding new jobs.

[Talk sense]

Ok. After I posted that one I realised that we were talking about self employment, so no salary.

 

So before April, for CT, the fees were 24.50 for 1 visit, a further 18.00 for the second. How much of that was yours?

 

If the case progressed, you could then add levy fees, removal fees and so forth. Not sure what your actual fees were as it was a bit of a mixed bag with different companies. What was a typical breakdown of your fees?

 

Levy ??

Van £110- £220

[Talk sense]

If your company isnt paying you then complain to them, dont take it out on the debtor

 

I agree.

Your talking to a bailiff who didn't corrupt the old structure not one who did.

Thieves are thieves

Corruption is corruption

And you either are or not.

 

This makes "them" worse

[kwackers]

Levy ??

Van £110- £220

 

You surely had a levy fee if you did one? Why the difference in van fees?

[outlawla]

 

Debt to creditor (local authority): £600

 

Compliance fee: £75

 

Enforcement fee: £235.....

 

 

I think the exact Pro-rata payments would be:

 

Enforcement fee (£235 divided by £835) x £75 = £21.11

 

Local mafia fee (£600 divided by £835) x £75 = £53.89

 

EDIT:

 

I can see it coming though, that the EA would get the calculation mixed up and do the following:

 

Enforcement fee (£835 divided by £235) x £75 = £266.49

 

and put it down to a genuine slip of the pen when scrutinised.

[Talk sense]

Look, something is not right here.

 

I did take part in the Consultation Paper on Bailiff Reform and following the Consultation as a member of a Stakeholder Group I attended many meetings regarding the new regulations and I am looking now at one particular example of how the 'pro rata' split on payment arrangements should work.

 

For example:

 

Debt to creditor (local authority): £600

 

Compliance fee: £75

 

Enforcement fee: £235

 

Amount due: £910

 

EA agrees a payment arrangement with debtor of £75 per week

 

Compliance fee of £75 deducted from the 1st payment leaving an amount due of: £835

 

 

Weekly payments of £75 are split on a 'pro rata' basis (approx 70%) to local authority ( £52.50) and (approx 30%) to Enforcement Agent (£22.50)

 

As you will see from this example from the weekly payment of £75 per week the enforcement company should be retaining £22.50 per week. As to how much the employer will allow the actual bailiff to keep must be down to negotiation.

 

 

Note:

 

The 'pro rata' split is pretty complicated and naturally involved senior accountants and solicitors. The EXACT split is very slightly different from the above example but for discussions sake, the above example will certainly suffice.

 

As far as bailiffs are concerned this isn't happening.

Bailiffs arnt seeing any payment until clear.

 

I've seen many transcripts from the new paper and understand what should be paid.

 

This is why I feel the agent is getting a raw deal and therefore does the debtor.

It should have been stipulated that these payments where part of bailiff payment structure.

 

And not the same old "well they don't pay it so we won't"

That doesn't make it right!

 

But this whole thing of payment has been left open to manipulation and there's no better than bailiff companies to find a way.

But to suit them.

And it's not in the best interest of the industry and it stinks.

 

I'm disgusted and totally disillusioned by the whole thing.

 

And while people post things like:

 

Go do something else

What makes you so special

Blame your colleagues

 

It only makes what people are doing worse.

But these idiots don't see it.

 

I'm one of many people fighting for what's right.

If I leave I leave, but I will still fight this.

This is something I'm very passionate about.

This isn't just about my money. Lol I wish it was.

 

This is a fundamental floor within new reg causing a massive issue which will only cause further heartache.

 

I've heard of bailiffs having breakdowns and stealing money???

Stealing money?????

If that ain't I good example what is.

 

These people havnt been thieves or not of sound mind it's this bloody industry and bailiff companies making life so difficult.

[Talk sense]

You surely had a levy fee if you did one? Why the difference in van fees?

 

Different councils different debts

[kwackers]

Different councils different debts

 

I don't understand that? So different councils allowed the EA to charge different van fees?

[Talk sense]

You surely had a levy fee if you did one? Why the difference in van fees?

 

Different councils, debts etc

[Talk sense]

I don't understand that? So different councils allowed the EA to charge different van fees?

 

Yes

[DragonFly1967]

Is it just me? I'm struggling to have any sympathy for Talk Sense.

 

I'm sure, "off duty" he's a nice enough bloke, he sounds like someone who's trying to provide for his family etc. But those of us with debts are in exactly the same situation. We're all struggling to pay our bills, and having 'extras' added to a debt isn't really helping anyone. Talk Sense says he doesn't get paid unless he collects the FULL amount, most people can't afford (or at least aren't able) to pull wads of cash out from where the sun doesn't shine, so can't pay in full there and then.

 

So no one wins. The debt doesn't get paid in full, and the Enforcement Agent doesn't get paid at all.

 

I can't see a single reason that someone would want to be a bailiff (EA) and potentially earn £0 per week.

 

Do yourself a favour Talk Sense... Get a better job!

[Talk sense]

As far as bailiffs are concerned this isn't happening.

Bailiffs arnt seeing any payment until clear.

 

I've seen many transcripts from the new paper and understand what should be paid.

 

This is why I feel the agent is getting a raw deal and therefore does the debtor.

It should have been stipulated that these payments where part of bailiff payment structure.

 

And not the same old "well they don't pay it so we won't"

That doesn't make it right!

 

But this whole thing of payment has been left open to manipulation and there's no better than bailiff companies to find a way.

But to suit them.

And it's not in the best interest of the industry and it stinks.

 

I'm disgusted and totally disillusioned by the whole thing.

 

And while people post things like:

 

Go do something else

What makes you so special

Blame your colleagues

 

It only makes what people are doing worse.

But these idiots don't see it.

 

I'm one of many people fighting for what's right.

If I leave I leave, but I will still fight this.

This is something I'm very passionate about.

This isn't just about my money. Lol I wish it was.

 

This is a fundamental floor within new reg causing a massive issue which will only cause further heartache.

 

I've heard of bailiffs having breakdowns and stealing money???

Stealing money?????

If that ain't I good example what is.

 

These people havnt been thieves or not of sound mind it's this bloody industry and bailiff companies making life so difficult.

 

I stand corrected I know of one company who follow this design.

However, they still claim the full compliance.

Why???

Have they collected it??

 

It's a system totally open for independent rule which is basically meant as manipulation.

 

Greed

[Talk sense]

Is it just me? I'm struggling to have any sympathy for Talk Sense.

 

I'm sure, "off duty" he's a nice enough bloke, he sounds like someone who's trying to provide for his family etc. But those of us with debts are in exactly the same situation. We're all struggling to pay our bills, and having 'extras' added to a debt isn't really helping anyone. Talk Sense says he doesn't get paid unless he collects the FULL amount, most people can't afford (or at least aren't able) to pull wads of cash out from where the sun doesn't shine, so can't pay in full there and then.

 

So no one wins. The debt doesn't get paid in full, and the Enforcement Agent doesn't get paid at all.

 

I can't see a single reason that someone would want to be a bailiff (EA) and potentially earn £0 per week.

 

Do yourself a favour Talk Sense... Get a better job!

 

Dragonfly please take the time to read all my posts.

As this is the full point I make.

I am talking about equality.

This being the debtor also.

 

The bloody fees are higher???

And bailiff companies won't allow the bailiff to take part payment and get paid. We want to but they won't let us!!!!

We didn't ask for a fee increase?? It was the bailiff companies. Who now see the large majority of that extra money.

Off duty in duty, in a pub, out playing footy I'm a good lad full stop. No doubt. I'm a family man.

With good mates, great kids and a great missus.

Brought up on a council estate. A rough council estate.

No one can tell me about debt or poverty no one, fact.

I've been in it.

 

Just get this if nothing else.

 

Bailiffs are not to blame when enforcing debts and not leaving your property when you offer money but it's not the full balance.

It's the bailiff companies.

Because they do not pay any money £0 nothing, if that's all the bailiff does.

We don't want this!!!!! DONT want this.

£235 enforcement fee?? It could be £500 the bailiff doesn't get it.

We NEVER asked for this.

We'd much prefer less fees but the opportunity to help more people out of a difficult situation.

 

Listen we all have bills and struggles I fully appreciate that.

Ask my accountant!

[DragonFly1967]

Listen we all have bills and struggles I fully appreciate that.

Ask my accountant!

 

This is kind of the point I was trying to make. If you're out, away from your family, for 10, 12 15 hours a day, and not being paid a living wage, and in some cases not being paid at all.

 

Why do it?

 

Surely to god you'd be better off signing on with an agency and working in a warehouse or something?

[Talk sense]

Dragonfly please take the time to read all my posts.

As this is the full point I make.

I am talking about equality.

This being the debtor also.

 

The bloody fees are higher???

And bailiff companies won't allow the bailiff to take part payment and get paid. We want to but they won't let us!!!!

We didn't ask for a fee increase?? It was the bailiff companies. Who now see the large majority of that extra money.

Off duty in duty, in a pub, out playing footy I'm a good lad full stop. No doubt. I'm a family man.

With good mates, great kids and a great missus.

Brought up on a council estate. A rough council estate.

No one can tell me about debt or poverty no one, fact.

I've been in it.

 

Just get this if nothing else.

 

Bailiffs are not to blame when enforcing debts and not leaving your property when you offer money but it's not the full balance.

It's the bailiff companies.

Because they do not pay any money £0 nothing, if that's all the bailiff does.

We don't want this!!!!! DONT want this.

£235 enforcement fee?? It could be £500 the bailiff doesn't get it.

We NEVER asked for this.

We'd much prefer less fees but the opportunity to help more people out of a difficult situation.

 

Listen we all have bills and struggles I fully appreciate that.

Ask my accountant!

 

I'd also like something.

 

You elude to doing myself a favour and getting a better job.

The job needs decent people, good honest people like me.

Who will help people and don't rob or add factious fees.

Debtors shouldn't be telling me to find something else but looking at what good people are going to leave an industry fraught with idiots.

 

I'd rather my mother have someone like me at her door if she had a bailiff visit. A decent lad is a decent lad.

Help us people don't tell them to leave, otherwise it'll become worse

[DragonFly1967]

I'd also like something.

 

You elude to doing myself a favour and getting a better job.

The job needs decent people, good honest people like me.

Who will help people and don't rob or add factious fees.

Debtors shouldn't be telling me to find something else but looking at what good people are going to leave an industry fraught with idiots.

 

I'd rather my mother have someone like me at her door if she had a bailiff visit. A decent lad is a decent lad.

Help us people don't tell them to leave, otherwise it'll become worse

 

I was thinking of you actually, working anything up to 75 hours a week and potentially not getting paid any money for doing it. But horses for courses I suppose.

 

I don't doubt that there are some good, fair bailiffs in the industry, there's bound to be somewhere, but I'd have to say, from reading these and other forums, that the majority (so over 51%) aren't good, they're little more than bullies in a suit.

 

As someone else said earlier, "you can't get blood out of a stone", so no matter how fair a bailiff you are, and for all I know you could well be the best bailiff in the country, if you can't get the money (in full) out of the debtor, you don't get paid.

 

I ask again, why would you want to risk earning nothing?

[Talk sense]

This is kind of the point I was trying to make. If you're out, away from your family, for 10, 12 15 hours a day, and not being paid a living wage, and in some cases not being paid at all.

 

Why do it?

 

Surely to god you'd be better off signing on with an agency and working in a warehouse or something?

 

I would at the moment yeah I agree.

But I'm determined to put this right.

Only in this industry would it be allowed.

I'm living on my savings.

I'm losing money doing this as is.

But if I leave a warehouse job doesn't cover my bills anyway.

 

Now if I go down I'll bloody make sure the full industry follows. Because good people arnt able to bank roll themselves like I have and are in mortgage arrears etc

Working away 10-15 hr days.

 

You honestly think I'm just going to walk and let people get away with that?

 

It's fixable but it's there greed.

 

I'll open a debt advice centre and close the Lott down, if they can't do the right thing, morals! They've 0