How the Bailiff gets paid?

[Talk sense]

The conundrum is the EA is trying to collect the uncollectable, as in if they haven't the money to pay off the principle debt, adding £400 or so in fees isn't going to make someone with zilch disposable income more able to pay it off as per rippedoffagain at post#15

"nteresting! The enforcement industry surely has a broken business model. Very simple to collect debt from people with money. Impossible to collect debt from people without enough money to feed themselves, pay their rent, utilities, etc."

 

Let's consider Council tax, a family on low income live in a council house, they have in work benefits, and a small proportion of Housing Benefit, which has been stopped due to having 3 bedrooms and only assessed as needing 2 due to the children being too young to not have to share. council tax is Band D, and is almost as much as the rent, and they have nothing left after paying bills. the council decide to reduce council tax releif, and they cannot afford the shortfall, and have arrears of £1. The council is like NELC who have successfully had Liability orders for a penny (extreme I know but bear with me for the example ) they gat the LO and the debtor now owes £400.01 due to the LO fee, the Compliance fee and the Enforcement fee. How the hell is that going to help them pay the arrears whether they are a penny, a pound or £500 plus the fees?

 

If you are correct Talk sense, there may well be a mass exodus of bailiffs from the industry sooner or later.

 

Bailiffs belong in the 13th Century with King John and the legendary Sheriff of Nottingham.

 

Extremes.

And you can run with the extremes in any walk of life.

It certainly doesn't mean that people and procedure don't have a place.

To even suggest that, in your above scenario calls for bailiff action is a view taken by yourself no I.

Horses for Courses.

I agree with you 100%

Now my point of view.

 

Cnl tax

Detached property.

Debt £2000

Range rover on the drive. (Owned)

Debtor 50 yrs old (never missed payments before)

Offers £1000 (refused by agent)

Is this how you want bailiffs to carry out there duty??

Is the gent any less vulnerable in this situation.

Worked all his life, never missed a payment but could lose his only pleasure in his vehicle.

 

But without the bailiff would we ever gather the info, part payment or full payment over a period.

Helping to reduce the deficit the next year.

 

There's a way. And it isn't always black and white.

Nor is it appropriate to remove people's goods or threaten to remove them because you can.

[Talk sense]

I am really struggling to understand why you, as a bailiff, have come to this forum to express your sorrows regarding the impact the new regulations are having on your earnings

 

 

That you blatantly state the old rules, which did indeed allow you “sit in people's property for 3hrs while they lost all self respect speaking to friends,family and neighbours looking to borrow money” gave the job appeal, then surely even you can see why the new regulation were needed.

 

 

Perhaps when you cannot afford the £800 mortgage, the utility bills etc and you fall behind

with the Council Tax you will come to appreciate the fact there will be no one sitting in your living room for 3 hrs watching you lose respect while you phone around friends and family to beg help?

 

If you don't like the heat then get out of the kitchen, what is stopping you getting back to college and getting qualification or retraining to a better job? do you really think you are a special case?

 

I didn't sit inside for the periods other people did.

Was it right? No it wasn't.

 

Just like it ain't now.

 

I've always paid my bills and will continue to do so.

 

A special case!!!

I'd say so.

I seem to be the only bailiff or individual able to see the negativity surrounding this new procedure.

 

If I can't pay my mortgage I'll sell the house.

But one things for sure my bills will always be paid always.

 

You've obviously missed the point and have a view personal to yourself which you which to enforce.

My issue is not with me solely.

It's the full industry.

 

And the sitting inside people's property for 3 hrs is going to become more of a problem.

 

"Can't stand the heat" ??? Seriously......

 

You think bailiffs carnt turn up the heat???

Why the bloody hell should I?

The new regs weren't for that.

Very much the opposite.

 

You think bailiffs will walk away??

No!!!

They'll enforce even harder now.

[seanamarts]

How will they enforce even harder? They can only follow what the regulations dictate.

[Talk sense]

If many bailiffs didnt thwart the law in the first place there would be less complaints, but many did and the debtor was being made to pay more than what they should of been, they bullied and lied to debtors. Im not speaking with regards to the wont payers but the vulnerable that were hounded and bullied and often assaulted through thuggish unwarranted behaviour. Im not putting you in that group.

 

The system changed to help those in more need. Unfortunately there are those who will still suffer on both sides and are not going to be happy about it. This will stop the abuse, I hope. I know I have seen a lot less complaints since it was changed.

 

Less complaints through less LO's through compliance and delayed work.

Abuse. Granted.

Put a camera on the bailiff.

 

There's no excuse to not pay the bailiff.

For the work they do.

And there's no justification for it.

 

New regs new start.

Same old attitude of how the bailiff is paid.

 

While the bailiff is paid like this, new regs have stopped nothing.

Wait till the new work. Then post again about complaints when all the bailiffs are trying to make to lost money up.

 

Fees issue resolved. That was a large majority of complaints.

So why no payment to the bailiff if he enters agreement and collects a fair payment????

You can't .

Greed

Greed

All I hear is overheads it's laughable.

[seanamarts]

I find it quite ironic to see a bailiff here pleading poverty.

[Talk sense]

How will they enforce even harder? They can only follow what the regulations dictate.

 

It's now past compliance.

It's now payment in full or removal.

 

There's no room for arrangement as far as bailiffs are concerned.

Regardless.

Pressure pressure pressure!

 

Me doing something else won't change this industry

A common sense approach will.

[tomtubby]

Talk sense.

 

Thank your for clarifying the position.

 

The new Director General (Mr Caven) had a very high profile role within the Magistrates Courts and I feel sure that he would want to know the views of bailiffs (like you). The views of the bailiff companies are well known but you are absolutely right in that the views of the bailiffs 'on the street' is not generally known.

[Talk sense]

I find it quite ironic to see a bailiff here pleading poverty.

 

I'm pleading for a fairness but your to anti bailiff to see.

I'll sell my house and downsize

Job solved.

Take the equity buy smaller and be mortgage free.

 

You reckon that solves this issue. It's blinded people like yourself who can't see the decent thing. Fool

 

You believe bailiffs will suffer and take the pay cuts this requires??? Hahahah

Seriously!!!

 

They'll all run the gauntlet what have they to lose.

 

And you just don't see it.

 

You see a bailiff pleading poverty.

If I was does that give you a sense of satisfaction?

Knowing a fellow man is struggling through no fault of his own!

Wasting my time

[kwackers]

Talk sense, are you saying that these new regulations will just push the 'well behaved' EAs to more aggressive enforcement, or even illegal or borderline illegal enforcement? And of course, that would imply that the already aggressive ones will become even more aggressive.

[wonkeydonkey]

I didn't sit inside for the periods other people did.

Was it right? No it wasn't.

 

Just like it ain't now.

 

I've always paid my bills and will continue to do so.

 

A special case!!!

I'd say so.

I seem to be the only bailiff or individual able to see the negativity surrounding this new procedure.

 

If I can't pay my mortgage I'll sell the house.

But one things for sure my bills will always be paid always.

 

You've obviously missed the point and have a view personal to yourself which you which to enforce.

My issue is not with me solely.

It's the full industry.

 

And the sitting inside people's property for 3 hrs is going to become more of a problem.

 

"Can't stand the heat" ??? Seriously......

 

You think bailiffs carnt turn up the heat???

Why the bloody hell should I?

The new regs weren't for that.

Very much the opposite.

 

You think bailiffs will walk away??

No!!!

They'll enforce even harder now.

 

Ah!! that better, now you are showing your true colour's and have made it very clear your resolution to the problem is simply .... ' the debtor gets it, lets turn up the heat lads'

 

There is another forum close by that also deals with bailiffs, pop over and seek their help I am sure they will be able to advise, they can supply you with the legislation that will allow you to sue for your rights, for a modest fee you can even get their templates and they can take instruction to draft all your documents. You will get all the advice you need over there which you won't get here and even I will get a mention so we will all be winners won't we.

[Talk sense]

Talksense I am trying to make sense of some things you have said and would be grateful if you would kindly enlighten me.

 

1] The fees have never been a problem within the bailiff industry as for 1 or 2 crooks.

Are you saying that the £24.50 and £18 for the first two visits were not a problem, or was it the ability to charge £150+ to call out a van etc which made it not a problem

 

2] as for 1 or 2 crooks

are you seriously saying that the rogues are that few-have you read some of the threads on the bailiff section

 

3] The whole idea surrounding the new regs was to make the fees and action of enforcement more transparent and help prevent rogue agents.

When the agents are simply acting against instruction.

Is it the rogue agents that are acting against instruction -and whose instructions -the Law or their bailiff companies

 

4] Now clients (local authorities) in general are requesting further periods of compliance this now puts debtors at a higher risk.

I would have thought that allowing debtors more time would be of benefit to the debtor since it may mean that they do not have to pay the high bailiff charges. I understand

from your point of view that it would not be good for you but perhaps Councils are concerned that the bailiff charges are now so legitimately high [whether the EA gets a slice of it or not] that they feel it unfair not to give a debtor every chance to sort out the problem before handing them over to a bailiff company

 

From what I understand the extra period of time given on compliance does not warrant further unnecessary letters and time given to the debtor.

Debtors are not paying after 2nd or 3rd stage compliance.

This only prolongs the time agents are waiting for work.

Adding huge financial pressure. Understand it don't understand it but this is the truth.

Some compliance stages are nearly 50 days!

When you have no work 50 days can bankrupt you in this industry.

Contrary to people's beliefs bailiffs don't earn mega money, certainly not enough to warrant this type of time scale.

This pressure will only passed onto the debtors at the premises.

 

Bailiffs are acting on necessity through a payment structure put in place by the bailiff companies.

 

I never found the initial £42.50 call charges to be an issue.

It was for every un answered letter!

Fairs fair. Their where few and far between if the job was done correctly. And bailiffs didn't drive around pre loading letters with all fees increasing debt for dropping a letter.

No I had no issue. Because I done the job right.

 

Now £42.50 has been replaced with £75 compliance, effectively.

So bailiff companies still earn more.

Van fee/enforcement fee has increase.

 

But the bailiff companies are all paying less.

All of them.

Coincidence???? I'm sceptical very much so.

 

But who fights our corner.

Are we being greedy???

I don't think so?

 

If we collect an amount of money however much, not being the full balance, we get nothing.

Yet the bailiff company get paid and the council get there money.

I'm not being funny here but it's me at risk,my time, my costs???

 

It's not about we've had this that and the other.

It's about what's right, and this isn't.

And allowing companies to get away with it is not an option.

 

If I continue in this industry or not.

[Talk sense]

Ah!! that better, now you are showing your true colour's and have made it very clear your resolution to the problem is simply .... ' the debtor get it, lets turn up the heat lads'

 

There is another forum close by that also deals with bailiffs, pop over and seek their help I am sure they will be able to advise, they can supply you with the legislation that will allow you to sue for your rights, for a modest fee you can even get their templates, they can take instruction to draft all your documents. you will get all the advice you need over there which you won't get here and even I will get a mention so we will all be winners won't we.

 

Lol

It's just the truth.

And bailiff companies know this.

They know we can't walk.

This is why it's been done.

 

I wasn't trying to be rude I thought I was being very transparent. And believe it or not a bailiff Is concerned.

You get good and bad in everything you know.

I guess bailiffs are no different. But it's all about to start again.

 

Thanks for your posts

[Talk sense]

Talk sense, are you saying that these new regulations will just push the 'well behaved' EAs to more aggressive enforcement, or even illegal or borderline illegal enforcement? And of course, that would imply that the already aggressive ones will become even more aggressive.

 

 

120%

[kwackers]

120%

 

And I would say that EAs becoming more aggressive could have the knock on effect of the debtor making more complaints, taking more advice, putting up more barriers and doing all they can to avoid paying the EA.

[brassnecked]

You could clear a house out of all the goods, and I'm sure some of the bad EAs will take exempt goods, or even have a mobility scooter away, sell them and still not get enough to clear a £1,000 debt plus fees.

 

So what do you do if you have had everything that you are allowed to take, the £200 banger, the chairs and table the TV the DVD and an old PS2. Debtor has nothing now the car has gone cannot get to work as work is 30 miles away with a 2 am start in a rural area, so has signed on and is on a sanction for 12 weeks for voluntarily leaving a job, which they cannot get to as you had the car away, and still not realised enough from the sale to cover half the debt and the fees?

 

What aggressive enforcement can your bad buddies apply now?

[seanamarts]

I'm pleading for a fairness but your to anti bailiff to see.

I'll sell my house and downsize

Job solved.

Take the equity buy smaller and be mortgage free.

 

You reckon that solves this issue. It's blinded people like yourself who can't see the decent thing. Fool

 

You believe bailiffs will suffer and take the pay cuts this requires??? Hahahah

Seriously!!!

 

They'll all run the gauntlet what have they to lose.

 

And you just don't see it.

 

You see a bailiff pleading poverty.

If I was does that give you a sense of satisfaction?

Knowing a fellow man is struggling through no fault of his own!

Wasting my time

 

What makes you assume that I am anti bailiff?

 

I really cannot see what you will gain by posting in here, you are rather rude, when I have been nothing but polite.

 

You have actually been quite contradictory in your postings

[seanamarts]

120%

 

I see, well I can see a lot of bailiff signing on if this is how they are going to conduct themselves.

 

You are just proving a point about how bailiffs acted. Shame on you.

 

I hope the likes of Marston and other bailiff companies are reading this thread.

[wonkeydonkey]

You could clear a house out of all the goods, and I'm sure some of the bad EAs will take exempt goods, or even have a mobility scooter away, sell them and still not get enough to clear a £1,000 debt plus fees.

 

So what do you do if you have had everything that you are allowed to take, the £200 banger, the chairs and table the TV the DVD and an old PS2. Debtor has nothing now the car has gone cannot get to work as work is 30 miles away with a 2 am start in a rural area, so has signed on and is on a sanction for 12 weeks for voluntarily leaving a job, which they cannot get to as you had the car away, and still not realised enough from the sale to cover half the debt and the fees?

 

What aggressive enforcement can your bad buddies apply now?

 

Bottom line...You can cause your fellow humans to suffer humiliation and great misery but the fact remains...You CANNOT get blood out of a stone ....simples.!!

[Talk sense]

Talk sense.

 

Thank your for clarifying the position.

 

The new Director General (Mr Caven) had a very high profile role within the Magistrates Courts and I feel sure that he would want to know the views of bailiffs (like you). The views of the bailiff companies are well known but you are absolutely right in that the views of the bailiffs 'on the street' is not generally known.

 

I'm sure Mr Caven is a really good guy with a great deal of knowledge probably a hell of a lot more than me.

I wish to stay anonymous at this moment in time until either there's a new understanding between company and bailiff. Or I have signed petitions from the bailiffs/agents who join the union I'm planning.

Generally these companies are the enforcement industry, I'm merely a passer by. I'd love to think that the message I bring from bailiffs nationwide is and will be heard. But I'm a realist and appreciate the fact that money rules.

 

I'd end up with no job and everyone else remains as they where too worried to have a voice.

 

Bailiffs are at rock bottom and so are their families they support.

The pressure is immeasurable for both.

And we don't see a future.

We believe we have no future.

 

Speaking with guys all over the country, at different companies collecting different debt types, this is the case.

 

I though the hard times were over?

Only now to be getting screwed over by the people we work for.

[wonkeydonkey]

"I though the hard times were over?" now where have I heard that before? take comfort my friend, you are along with thousands of others who thought they were in secure employment for life only to find the rug pulled from under their feet and stealth taxes eating into the flesh and bones of what was once a 'comfortable' life.

[kwackers]

Talking Sense, I'm asking this as I really don't know the answer, but say you collected fully on a debt at the first visit, coming away with the amount owed plus £310 in fees. How much of that does the EA actually get and how does it compare with pre-April figures?

 

I'm not being snide or anything, I genuinely want to know what the figures are.

[Talk sense]

I see, well I can see a lot of bailiff signing on if this is how they are going to conduct themselves.

 

You are just proving a point about how bailiffs acted. Shame on you.

 

I hope the likes of Marston and other bailiff companies are reading this thread.

 

No you miss the point. Again

 

We all know this has went on in the past.

 

This is why a change has and was lobbied for.

 

My point which you've missed is very clear.

"This regulation change does not stop this bad behaviour or old bad practice"

 

What you should be able to retort with is.

 

"Well you can't do that no more" but you can't.

 

And by cutting people's potential earnings you risk this triggering poorer more cavalier behaviour.

 

I'm sorry, but I thought we all understood and appreciated that a change was needed because or poor bailiff practices in the past???

I don't condone it! But to believe that the new regs have driven this out is irresponsible on behalf of all debtors.

 

Shame on you.

 

And to misinterpret my message for greed and not for equality and fairness across the board. Only shows an understanding for your point of view and no other.

When these posts should be posted to "Marston" and such companies but more importantly a higher authority who will put a stop to this. For the benefit of debtors and the bailiff.

[Talk sense]

"I though the hard times were over?" now where have I heard that before? take comfort my friend, you are along with thousands of others who thought they were in secure employment for life only to find the rug pulled from under their feet and stealth taxes eating into the flesh and bones of what was once a 'comfortable' life.

 

Which I agree.

 

But fees havnt been cut they've increased.

When brickies lost there jobs no houses where being built.

When minors lost there jobs the mines were being closed.

!!!!!!!!

 

Our fees have risen?????

There's more debt than ever????

We still have jobs????

But the new regs line the pockets of the bailiff companies.

Making it harder for the bailiff.

Making it harder for the debtor.

 

The pressure comes from above my friend

[tomtubby]

 

So why no payment to the bailiff if he enters agreement and collects a fair payment????

 

 

I am surprised to hear you say that if you agree a payment agreement with the debtor that you do not receive a commission. That surely cannot be the case.

 

I am confused by your posts as I am uncertain whether you are complaining at the new fees being too low or whether your complaint concerns the way in which commission has changed with your employer. Would you mind posting back with clarification.

[Talk sense]

Talking Sense, I'm asking this as I really don't know the answer, but say you collected fully on a debt at the first visit, coming away with the amount owed plus £310 in fees. How much of that does the EA actually get and how does it compare with pre-April figures?

 

I'm not being snide or anything, I genuinely want to know what the figures are.

 

It is depending on company.

But you make the point!

"Coming away with the full amount"

What if only half can be arranged??

And it's a single mum??

 

Because I only get my money in full payment do I

Push push push push

Or would it be fair to take what is fair and on offer.

Complete the documentation and offer a further arrangement?

And still be paid for doing a good job.

Being everything the MOJ want me to be!

 

But hold on I can't do that! Why???

Because I don't see a cent.

 

But on average I'd say £100 per case.

That's if compliance hasn't already been paid.

In that case you'd get less.

All companies pay differs but it is all around this figure.

 

Pre April

50% of fees

And part fees in difficult circumstances

 

Fees generally added to around £270

 

Exactly????

 

Can you see any sense in this.

 

Fees higher paid less??? Mmmmmm

 

Fishy