Lowell - Bryan Carter - Overdraft re Bank Charges

[Argh!]

Hi Guys

 

Two problems I need some advice on please.

 

Been away on holiday and just got back to find a county court summons from Lowells/Bryan Carter

 

Issue date 7 Feb 2014

 

Firstly and most urgently, am I too late to file an acknowledgement of service? ( I realise its 5 days plus 14 = 19 days) = 26 February, but if I am not even in the country and have not even seen the thing until today, how can I acknowledge it in time? Surely lots of people have holidays and could potentially fall foul of this 19 day rule?

 

The summons came from the Northampton Bulk Centre

 

Can anything be done/explanations made/leiniency applied at this stage or is it too late?

 

Secondly and a little less urgently, the claim relates to an old Lloyds bank account overdraft which Lowells bought, the overdraft comprised almost entirely of compounded illegal/unfair bank charges and interest thereon.

 

Lloyds chased this for a number of years but I made them aware that if it went to court that I would contest it as it was largely due to illegal/unfair bank charges so thay never bothered to take it to court themselves and now its ended up at Lowells.

 

Presuming I can somehow get this back on track, would you recommend I just defend it, or make a counterclaim for the bank charges the alledged debt is comprised of?

[AndyOrch]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

Have you logged on to MCOL and tried to access the claim...the AoS may still be available if not ring CCBC and explain the situation.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Argh!]

Hi Andy thanks so much for that.

 

Just logged on to MCOL and AoS was still available.......so relieved!

 

I note that the following came up when completing the AoS

 

 

Before you acknowledge service of the claim against you, which gives you time

to seek advice to complete your defence, you must make sure the following apply

in your case:

 

you are filing your acknowledgment within 14 days of service of the claim on

you (a claim is considered served on the fifth day after it is issued)

 

or

 

you are filing your acknowledgement within 14 days of service of separate

more detailed particulars

 

If you haven't filed an acknowledgment of service within the time specified

above, the claimant can request judgment against you.

 

However, if the claimant has not already entered judgment against you, you

may file an acknowledgment of service up to 28 days after service of the claim

(or separate particulars) on you.

 

Am I correct in presuming that as I've been able to do this, that Carters can no longer apply for a defaut judgement on this, and I now have time to prepare my defence/counterclaim or both?

[AndyOrch]

I would still check with Northampton and explain as advised....It looks like you have got away with it but check for peace of mind that they have not requested a Default Judgment.

You are only 6 days late so I assume it should be ok.

[Argh!]

OK speaking to them now.

[Argh!]

Just spoke to them, they were very nice actually, they confirmed that there has been no Default Judgement requested and so I have until 12 March to file a defence... brilliant news!!

 

Thanks so much for your help thus far Andy, spot on

 

Now on to the second part of my question if you could, pretty please

[AndyOrch]

Pushing your luck now Argh...hope you are having a go on the Lotto tomorrow with your run of luck:wink:

 

Go to the Legal Library and look for CPR 31.14 Current Accounts...edit to suit and get that away today.Also type here the particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data.

 

Dont worry about your defence just give your thread a nudge at it approaches.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Argh!]

Thanks Andy..... Yes I will definately have to have a shot on the lottery tomorrow LOL ..... Big donation to CAG if I win!

 

Actually I SAR'ed Lloyds a few years ago now, in preperation of an attempt to reclaim these charges (and more made before them), but a few weeks later the supreme court ruling came out and everything went Pete Tong.

 

Is it the same thing or do I still go for a CPR 31.14 ?

[AndyOrch]

Yes we need to put them to proof that they have the documentation and are legally enforcing the debt...hence CPR 31.14...re the DSAR have you quantified a figure...does it need up dating ...have the above goons added anything further?

[Argh!]

Details within Lowells/Carters Particulars of Claim

 

Claim Form

 

In the Northampton (CCBC) County Court

Claim Number xxxxxxxx

Issue date 07 Feb 2014

 

Claimant:

Lowell Portfolio I Ltd

Re: Lowell Financial Limited

Registered Office

Enterprise House

1 Apex View

Leeds LS11 9BH

 

Address for sending documents and payments:

Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

11 De Havilland Drive

Weybridge Surrey

KT13 0YP

 

08453133125

LOW/xxxxxxxx

 

Defendant:

Me

 

Particulars of Claim:

This claim is for £XXXX.XX the amount due under an agreement between the original

creditor and the defendant to provide finance and / or services and / or goods.

 

This debt was assigned to / purchased by Lowell Portfolio I Ltd

On xx/xx/2013 and notice served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925

 

Particulars

Re: Lloyds

A/C No xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

And the claimant claims £XXXX.XX

 

The claimant also claims interest pursuant to S69 County Court Act 1984

from xx/xx/2013 to date at 8% per annum amounting to £XXX.XX

 

 

Amount Claimed: £XXXX.XX

Court fee: £75.00

Solicitors Costs: £80.00

Total amount: £XXXX.XX

[Argh!]

No luck with the lottery I'm afraid, I did two lines but only got one number in each line hmmmmm. So I'm afraid no donation to CAG..... yet!


 


Just got a standard no effort, did they even bother to even read my letter response from Carters.......


 



We write further to your recent letter requesting disclosure under Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules.




 




We confirm the Claim Form was issued by the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre and that the Court's Protocol was followed




when issuing the Claimant's Particulars of Claim. Practice Direction 7C point 1.4 (3A) eliminates the requirement to attach the documents to the Particulars of Claim when they are issued by this Court.




 




We confirm this matter will most properly be allocated to the

small claims

Track as this is a simple contractual matter and Part 31




of the Civil Procedure Rules will therefore not apply.




 




In any event the Notices of Default and Assignment left the control of the Claimant when they were dispatched to you.




 




It is the original creditor's policy to issue agreements at the start of the start of the contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement and, in this regard, we ask you to refer to your own records.




 




We confirm we are not agreeable to an extension for filing your defence.




 




We recommend you seek independent legal advice.

[AndyOrch]

Not allocated at the time of the request so CPR 31.14 does apply...but do you really want to argue with a nonsensical template?

[Argh!]

Yes we need to put them to proof that they have the documentation and are legally enforcing the debt...hence CPR 31.14...re the DSAR have you quantified a figure...does it need up dating ...have the above goons added anything further?

 

No Andy the goons are still seeking the exact same amount that Lloyds have been attempting to collect through various DCAs (whilst choosing not to take it through court themselves as they knew it was almost totally comprised of penalty charges) for many years now, the only additions Carters have made are 8% s69 interest, court fees and solicitors costs.

 

In fact I have just totted up all the Penalties Charged to the account since opening it in 1992 (besides the statements Lloyds sent me I have almost every other one) if we can go back that far, and they come to an eyewatering £4900+ in penalty charges and £600+ in the resulting overdraft interest, so approx £5500 in total, which totally exceeds the £2400+ they are claiming I owe them! And this is without adding in any s69 interest at 8% per annum I am potentially owed myself, not to mention the daily compounded interest!

 

Can anyone point me to an up to date spreadsheet to calculate the above interest?

 

So time to prepare a defense, can you point me to any that you think would be a good fit so I/WE can adapt please Andy? I have read hundreds of pages on this forum and have found a few but am a little concerned as tactics/legislation changes continualy and would not like to render an invalid one!

 

And what are your recommendations regarding a possible counterclaim?

Edited March 10, 2014 by Argh!

[AndyOrch]

Heres the spreadsheet :--

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...laims-Dec-2011

 

Let me consider the merits of a CC once you have a final figure.

 

Andy

[Argh!]

Superb.... thanks as always Andy, your a Gem!

 

Just calculating, be back soon

[Argh!]

That links not working for me Andy

 

IE says its not a valid host name?

[Argh!]

I think I've found the correct link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

If I am correct I see the spreadsheets relate primarily to PPI Claims so the big question now is, which version or combination of versions do I use? And what rate of Compound interest do I use?

[ims21]

Use the second sheet down, the CI sheet.

 

The rate to use is the rate they were charging you.

[Argh!]

Thanks so much ims21

 

I see that spreadsheet calculates compound interest and asks for an interest rate, any ideas of a rate the courts would find acceptable?

 

Also other spreadsheets in the series calculate s69 interest too, would I be entitled to this in addition to compound interest?

[ims21]

Just do your compound sheet for the moment. Use the rate that the bank were charging you.

 

That will help andyorch consider the CC.

 

S69 interest can be dealt with later.

[Argh!]

OK the problem is the bank charged varying rates and stopped charging interest on the balance when they closed the account in 2009, does that make a difference?

[ims21]

Make the "claim to" the date that they stopped charging interest.

 

Use an average of the rates they were charging to get get a best estimate.

[Argh!]

Thats great thanks so much

[Argh!]

Results from the Compound Interest Spreadsheet

 

Based on 18% compound interest calculated between 1992 to 2009 = £15,600.20 (putting it into the fast track )

Based on 10% compound interest calculated between 1992 to 2009 = £9,672.75 (small claims track)

 

Results from the first spreadsheet - Stautory Interest if I just claim s69 interest calculated from 1992 to date = £10,363.51 (I suppose I could use different dates or "miss" a few charges accidentaly to get it back on track)

[AndyOrch]

Really need to to keep it below £10K forget sec 69 for now thats calculated on top later and has no bearing on track.

 

Andy