Bought car privately, but it was mis-described in Advert - what can I do ?

[2cojones]

I wonder if anyone can give me a bit of advice.I bought a car which was advertised on Auto Trader from a private seller earlier this month. The advert clearly stated that the car had a "New MOT", and the seller confirmed this verbally on the phone (and again at his house) that the car definately had a new MOT. When I went to view and drive the car I decided to buy it (even though it was dark, and I was under pressure to buy “a car” to get to work the next morning) .

 

The seller would not let me look at the vehicle documents until I had handed over payment. Strange that, and in retrospect I should have walked away then. Anyway, I handed over the money (£900 in cash – for which he gave me a written receipt). I subsequently found that there was no MOT Certificate present. The seller said that it had been lost and would forward it when he found it. After a load of excuses and lies the following week, and having checked the car's MOT status on the DirectGov website and with the garage he said had carried out the MOT test, I found out that the car did NOT have an MOT Certificate at all (it last passed in September 2012 !).

 

As this chap was a private seller, rather than a car dealer, I realise that I have less rights. However on the Citizens Advice Bureau website, on a page titled 'Buying a car from a private seller - what you need to know' there are two sections that suggest that I do have a case against him, these are listed below :'The car must match it's description' - The car did not match it's description as the online Auto Trader advertisement included the words "New MOT".'The car must be roadworthy' - The car was clearly not roadworthy as it did not have a current MOT Certificate AND whilst I commuted back from work later that week 3 of the 4 wheel nuts on the front passenger side wheel sheared off, causing serious 'wheel wobble' and vibration - this could easily have resulted in a serious accident. I have evidence of this from the AA Breakdown Recovery (they transported the car to my local garage).

 

I want to take this private seller to the Small Claims Court to recover the cost of obtaining an MOT on the car. The car needed substantial work to pass the test, the bill so far being around £800 all of which has been documented. Crucially I have a hard copy of the original Auto Trader advert (a good job as the seller cancelled it very quickly on the evening I bought the car – attempting to destroy the evidence ?!)Can anyone advise me whether I would have a case in the Small Claims Court or is there a better way of recovering these costs ?

 

I have already given him an opportunity (by text message) to refund me the money and take the car back, or give me half back and I keep the car, but he refused both options.He is a very arrogant bloke, in (apparent) total denial as to what he’s done wrong. All he keeps saying is “the car was sold as seen”. That’s fair enough – and what I expect – but that term applies to the condition of a car not to mis-describing it.I have been buying secondhand cars for over 25 years and have always tried to make sure I was never ripped off (and never have been). So, disappointed that I let my guard down this one time.Any advice you are able to provide would be very much appreciated.

 

Sorry about the mini essay …..Thanks, Chris

Edited February 27, 2014 by Conniff

[Conniff]

What was the date of purchase?

 

Have you been in contact with the seller at all?

[WarrenBuffet]

'Goods not as described' ie: No MOT, private sales as regards cars especially below £1k are always difficult to contest but, if you do have the advert then you have been miss-led. For all your previous experience you have been very foolish when buying. Always check every document and cross check cars details on relevant databases before purchase. I hope you have kept text messages?

 

'Buy in haste and repent at leisure'

[2cojones]

Hi Conniff,Thanks for your post. I bought the car on Sunday the 2nd of February. I've been in touch with the seller by text messages and by phonecall. After a week of him insisting the car had an MOT but the garage had forgotten to upload the details onto the DirectGov website, the car was transported to my local garage (with sheared wheel nuts) and they have been working through the MOT failure items for 3 weeks (diagnosing, waiting for parts etc.). The seller has no interest in resolving this.Regards,Chris

Edited February 27, 2014 by 2cojones
Making it easier to read

[2cojones]

Hi WarrenBuffet,Thanks for your post. Although the car was only £900 I would have thought that the law would apply to the principle and not the actual value. I have ther original advertisement, the seller's written receipt and I have kept all the text messages as a record.I agree, I have been very foolish on this occasion. I had left it far too late to buy a car that weekend, and all the conditions were wrong to be buying a secondhand car. I depended too much on my first impressions of the seller : he had a newish Range Rover, a big house on a private road and was well spoken. But, yes, I was too careless.Regards, Chris

[citizenB]

Thread moved to General Motoring Issues as requested. 2cojones, you need do nothing, this was purely an administrative move

[2cojones]

Apologies for that CitizenB. I posted it in the same directory as a similar thread I saw (found on a Google search).Regards,Chris

[citizenB]

Apologies for that CitizenB. I posted it in the same directory as a similar thread I saw (found on a Google search).Regards,Chris

 

No worries at all

[Conniff]

"Forgot to input the MoT details" - this guys full of jokes.

[2cojones]

I agree Conniff, looking back he came up with some beauties, he even said "I have a £45,000 Range Rover, a million pound house and a beautiful wife - why on earth would I lie to you" to which I said "So why are you ?". I've met all kinds of really great people buying cars over the years, this just leaves a bad taste in the mouth and something that will make me check documents carefully beforehand as my trust has been severely dented. It'll take a while to be restored.

 

 

Regards, Chris

[sailor sam]

I think you've pretty much scuppered you chances of getting anywhere with the cost of the MOT/repairs unless you followed the path which satisfies the SOGA criteria. Did you give (in writing) the seller the reasonable opportunity to rectify the situation?

 

I think what you should of gone for was a straight forward rejection. That would of been less complicated with a more realistic chance of success IMHO.

 

Clearly this is a case of miss-selling and usually is the only path you can go down with a private seller. But if you have started to have the car repaired without giving the seller the opportunity to get the car MOT'd himself, you are going to have big problems here I think.

[Conniff]

I agree Sam, but lets not give up too soon.

 

Get a proper company headed bill from whoever is doing the repairs and send a copy to him by signed for mail explaining how he mis-sold you the car and ask for him to pay it.

 

Did you actually go into his house ?

[sailor sam]

Conniff, you know too well about my thoughts on selling dodgy cars so i'm far from suggesting giving up. But I will put all the arguments which the OP may find facing in court as I see them. Not being able to demonstrate that you gave a seller (trader or private) the opportunity to rectify in the first instance, will surely prejudice your claim for full reimbursement of your losses.

 

From what the OP is saying about this seller, I think the chances of him paying when any bill is presented to him are pretty remote.

[ericsbrother]

The seller deliberately mislead the buyer by telling porkies about the MOT. No garage forgets to upload the data onto the computer, they would lose their registration if they did and each tester is responsible for their own certification so they would be unemployable afterwards if they hadnt and then didnt tell theboss.

Having spent money on the car you cannot take it back (unlikley you would have got any joy before the repairs with a crook) so you are left trying to recover some of your money. Suing is about the only way of getting anywhere but crooks just laugh off CCJ's and wil give you the runaround as well, which will mean more costs and aggravation.

You can try reporting to police as fraud but it will become another statistic unless this is a common theme with this person.

[Billy's mate]

Firstly, two golden rules about buying a used car : 1) never buy a car in the dark, and 2) never buy a car in the rain ( as it masks all sorts of faults, and you never examine it properly ). The reason this man has a big house etc, is probably because he's spent a lifetime ripping off people like you. As has been suggested, send him photocopies of your repair bills, and tell him that if he does not pay within 14 days, you will commence action through the small claims court. You stand a good chance of winning with all your evidence, however some of these con men have everything registered in someone else's name and own nothing on paper. My advice is go for it, do the above and then contact the court for the necessary documents. It will obviously cost you money, but it's worth a try.

[Surfer01]

The only recourse I would think is that the vehicle may not have been roadworthy and that falls under the Misrepresentation Act therefroe a criminal offence could have occurred.

[2cojones]

Hi Sailor Sam,

 

 

Thanks for your post. In answer to your question I did give the seller a chance to rectify the situation in writing by text message the week after the sale. After taking advice I have also sent a formal letter to him, by recorded delivery, to rectify he situation - giving him 7 days to do so before I proceed with a Small Claim Court case. Not ideal but I was told that a text message (saved and also re-typed out on A4 paper) was insufficient for the intended purpose. The fact I gave the seller numerous opportunities to give either a full refund and take the car back, a 50% refund and I keep the car and use the money to obtain an MOT. He rejected everything I requested, and repeatedly said "the car was sold as seen ..... I've done nothing wrong ..... now leave me alone" .

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

Chris

[2cojones]

Hi Conniff,

 

 

Glad you mentioned about sending him a copy of a letter from the repair garage as that's just what I have done, and I did mention the section in the Sale of Goods Act about mis-describing an item for sale.

 

 

I did not go into his house as he did not invite me in. Even when I asked if my two young kids waiting in our car could use his toilet it was an abrupt "No !".

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[2cojones]

Hi Ericsbrother,

 

 

Thanks for your post. From the sellers responses it was obvious to me that I would not be getting any money back so I asked my garage to MOT it whilst it was in there having the wheel studs bit removed and new ones fitted. He was really slippery, and full of stories and I really think he's been doing this for years judging by his arrogant attitude and unwillingness to say anything but "Sold as seen .... I've done nothing wrong etc.".

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[2cojones]

Hi Billy's mate,

 

 

Thank you for the post. I appreciate the advice and glad that you feel I have a good chance of winning in Small Claims Court. I have everything documented, and it looks to me like a straight cut case. Getting any money out of him, as you say, could be a different matter.....

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[2cojones]

Hi Surfer01,

 

 

Thanks for your post and advice. That's good news. The last MOT expired in September 2012 so means it was tested nearly 2.5 years ago - I 'm sure that reinforces my opinion that the car was unroadworthy. Losing money aside, if I, or whoever else bought the car, was less fortunate with the wheel nut failure and it resulted in a fatality would it ever come back to him. On telling him about what happened he even accused me of loosening off the wheel nuts myself !!

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

[f16]

Hi 2cojones, You said post#1 that he advertised as a "private seller", but you suspect now that "he has been doing for years".

Try Trading Standards, or see if he has other adverts with the same contact no.

good Luck

F16

[king12345]

Hi Conniff,

 

 

Glad you mentioned about sending him a copy of a letter from the repair garage as that's just what I have done, and I did mention the section in the Sale of Goods Act about mis-describing an item for sale.

 

 

I did not go into his house as he did not invite me in. Even when I asked if my two young kids waiting in our car could use his toilet it was an abrupt "No !".

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

He did this because he doesn't live there.

It's a common tactic to sell a car outside a posh house claiming they live there.

As someone suggested, you need to be sure of his name and address, otherwise any ccj will just remain unpaid.

[Conniff]

Hi Conniff,

 

 

Glad you mentioned about sending him a copy of a letter from the repair garage as that's just what I have done, and I did mention the section in the Sale of Goods Act about mis-describing an item for sale.

 

 

I did not go into his house as he did not invite me in. Even when I asked if my two young kids waiting in our car could use his toilet it was an abrupt "No !".

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris

 

This worries me. There are people who use others premises to sell cars from, someones house they know is away, or student accommodation claiming it is 'their house' when in fact he doesn't live there at all but can get access so it looks like he does.

I'm not saying that is the case here, but how sure are you that this mans name and address are legitimate ?

[2cojones]

Hi f16,

 

 

Thanks for the post and advice. I'll get in touch with Trading Standards as I have a gut feeling that he is an old pro at selling dodgy cars.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Chris