Help needed re: claim from Arrow Global/Wilkin Chapman Solicitors/cap1 cc

[kylie1dw]

Hiya

 

Partner had a cap1 cc many years ago.

 

It was on a DMP back in 2008, but

due to becoming unemployed was unable to maintain it.

 

Apart from an initial letter from them over 5 years ago there has been absolutely nothing from them since.

 

Had a letter from Wilkin Chapman Solicitors a few months ago acting for Arrow Global,

but due to not knowing who they were it was duly ignored.

 

Received a claim form from Northampton bulk centre (dated 22 Jan)

have acknowledged and ticked defend all.

CPR 31.14 to Solicitors and have received this reply:

 

We acknowledge receipt of your undated letter.

We can confirm that our client will need to obtain these documents from the originating creditor

and therefore it may take up to six weeks for us to obtain the documents.

 

Please be advised that we will agree to an extension of 14 days from the date we serve you with the requested documents to file your defence.

 

We will refer to you once the documents have been received.

 

So what do I need to do now? Defence needs to be in on Saturday.

 

By the way CPR was for cca, default and assignment. Its a pre 2000 cc so I cant see them producing an agrrement.

 

All help greatly appreciated, Thanks

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What is the history of this account?

 

 

When was it defaulted?

When was the last payment or written acknowledgment of the debt?

Does the account appear on credit reference files?

[citizenB]

Hiya

 

Partner had a cap1 cc many years ago. It was on a DMP back in 2008, but due to becoming unemployed was unable to maintain it. Apart from an initial letter from them over 5 years ago there has been absolutely nothing from them since. Had a letter from Wilkin Chapman Solicitors a few months ago acting for Arrow Global, but due to not knowing who they were it was duly ignored.

 

Received a claim form from Northampton bulk centre (dated 22 Jan) have acknowledged and ticked defend all. Sent CPR 31.14 to Solicitors and have received this reply:

 

We acknowledge receipt of your undated letter. We can confirm that our client will need to obtain these documents from the originating creditor and therefore it may take up to six weeks for us to obtain the documents.

 

Please be advised that we will agree to an extension of 14 days from the date we serve you with the requested documents to file your defence.

 

We will refer to you once the documents have been received.

 

So what do I need to do now? Defence needs to be in on Saturday.

 

By the way CPR was for cca, default and assignment. Its a pre 2000 cc so I cant see them producing an agrrement.

 

All help greatly appreciated, Thanks

 

They cant do this !! You can only agree an extension of up to 28 days between the parties - I will ask andyorch to look in on you.

[kylie1dw]

POC:

 

The Claimant's claim is for XXXXX being monies due from the Defndant to the Claimant

in respect of a regulated credit card agreement between the defendant and capital one

and assigned to the claimant on 11/02/11,

 

notice of which has been provided to the Defndant.

 

the defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the agreement and

 

a default notice has been served pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974.

 

the claimant claims the sum of XXXX

 

Dont know what date the default notice was.

 

Last payment was made Oct 2008

 

so not statute barred and

 

have not acknowledged since.

 

Have never looked at the credit file as it would be very depressing to read lol.

[kylie1dw]

Hi again

 

I didn't have time to add this earlier, but a few days after my AOS and my intention to defend in full I received this letter from the solicitors:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Our Client: Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd

 

We have received notification that a County Court Claim Form was issued to you on 21 January 2014.

 

Our Client is in a position to request judgement against you from 11 February 2014

which may adversely affect your credit rating and make it difficult to obtain credit.

 

Our Client would like to offer you the opportunity to avoid judgement being registered aginst you,

provided that you can make a lump sum payment our client may agree to accept a discount on the outstanding balance.

 

Please contact us on XXXXXXXXX prior to 24 February 2014

in order to discuss a potential settlement on the above account.

 

In the event that we do not receive a response by this date,

judgement may be entered against you without further notice.

 

I guess they think scare tactics might work. I don't think so

[AndyOrch]

Just ignore their offer of extension and submit your defence by the due date kylie1dw ..

 

.....as you can see from the above the kind of company you are dealing with using court claims to intimidate

and in the same breath offering you a discount if you pay now.

..just because you have acknowledged and stated you intend to defend in full.

 

Judgment cant be entered against you without further notice.

 

..as it will be a defended claim by Saturday.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[kylie1dw]

Thanks for that. So do I now enter an embarrassed defence?

 

If so, any pointers as to where I can look for an example

 

as dont seem to be having any luck finding any as my time is quite limited at the moment.

 

If not an embarrassed defence anything else I can use as an example

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Im not sure what an embarrassed defence is

 

...if you mean an holding defence..

 

.almost every thread here in the legal forum contains some kind of defence.

 

Look for a thread with the same claimant

 

same kind of debt and

 

then have ago at editing to suit your particular circumstances.

 

..post here for checking before you submit.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[kylie1dw]

Does this look ok for my defence? It needs to be sent tonite.

 

1. It is denied that the Defendant is indebted to the sum claimed, and the Claimant is put to the strictest of proof on the same.
   
2. The Defendant sent the Claimant a CPR31.14 request for the original signed agreement, the assignment and the default notice relied upon in the Particulars of Claim.
   
3. The Claimant received the CPR31.14 request on 14-02-2014 by Special Delivery.
   
4. As of 22-02-2014 the Claimant has not supplied the requested documents, the Claimant has stated it will take up to 6 weeks to obtain said documents.
   
5. The Defendant asserts that the Pre-Action conduct of the Claimant is unacceptable and feels as though the Claimant is trying to frustrate proceedings with this Non-Compliance attitude towards Practice Direction.
   
6. The Particulars of Claim contends that the sum being claimed was assigned to the Claimant on 11-02-2011. A copy of the assignment from Capital One to Arrow Global has been requested from the Claimant pursuant to part 31.14 of the Civil Procedure Rules. No copy has been received, therefore the Defendant has no evidence of such an assignment at this stage of the procedure.
   
7. It is denied that any notice of assignment was received on or after 11-02-2011 and the Claimant is put to the strictest of proof.
   
8. It is denied that any statuatory and valid default notice has been served on the Defendant and the Claimant is put to the strictest of proof to the contrary.
   
9. The conduct of the Claimant is denying the Defendant the right to submit a fully particularised defence and at this present time, the Defendant is unsure as to exactly what the Claimants claim is for. The Defendant is unable to file a full defence as a direct result of the Claimant’s negative Pre-Action conduct.
   
10. The Defendant respectfully requests that the Court stay (suspend) the proceedings under Practice Direction 4.6 (1) until the Claimant complies with the Defendants CPR31.14 request and respectfully requests that the court impose a time scale of seven days upon the Claimant to comply with the Defendants rightful entitlement to inspect the documents that the Claimant’s claim is to rely upon, and that should the Claimant fail to comply with the court’s order, then the Defendant respectfully requests that upon notification by the Defendant to the Court of the Claimants further failure to comply with the Practice Direction sanctions imposed by the court, that the Court makes the motion to strike out the Claimants claim on the grounds that the Claimant is unable to substantiate the claim.
    
11. The Defendant also makes a respectful request to the Court for the court’s consideration to permit the Defendant to submit an amended defence if the Claimant supplies the requested documents mentioned, furthermore, the Defendant states to the Court, that if the claimant does so indeed disclose the requested documents within the time limit of the further seven days to the defendant, then the defendant requests that the Court provide the defendant with directions that inform the defendant of the time scale that the Court shall allow the defendant to file/submit the full or amended defence to this action.
    

[AndyOrch]

" The Defendant respectfully requests that the Court stay (suspend) the proceedings under Practice Direction 4.6 "

 

There is no such PD?

 

Andy

[kylie1dw]

Perhaps I was looking at an out of date copy of the practice directions for pre action conduct. It came under the sub heading of non compliance sanctions or something similar.. still a bit late now as it has been sent.

Thanks for reading it though and I shall I have a look at the practice directions again tomorrow and check the issue date.

[kylie1dw]

Ok I couldn't wait till tomorrow to look so just had a peek on the justice.gov website.

 

It's definitely there under practice directions-pre-action protocol.

 

It's separate directions not from the main cpr bit you need to scroll down to nearly the bottom and its under other practice directions.

[AndyOrch]

Right gotcha.....

 

4.6 If, in the opinion of the court, there has been non-compliance, the sanctions which the court may impose include –

 

(1) staying (that is suspending) the proceedings until steps which ought to have been taken have been taken;

(2) an order that the party at fault pays the costs, or part of the costs, of the other party or parties (this may include an order under rule 27.14(2)(g) in cases allocated to the small claims track);

(3) an order that the party at fault pays those costs on an indemnity basis (rule 44.3(3) sets out the definition of the assessment of costs on an indemnity basis);

(4) if the party at fault is the claimant in whose favour an order for the payment of a sum of money is subsequently made, an order that the claimant is deprived of interest on all or part of that sum, and/or that interest is awarded at a lower rate than would otherwise have been awarded;

(5) if the party at fault is a defendant, and an order for the payment of a sum of money is subsequently made in favour of the claimant, an order that the defendant pay interest on all or part of that sum at a higher rate, not exceeding 10% above base rate, than would otherwise have been awarded.

 

 

Unfortunately that does no apply to disclosure...CPR requests are civil requests between parties...not a direction from the court therefore the court cannot impose sanctions..Disclosure always follows the defence not visa versa.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[kylie1dw]

Oops, made a bit of a boo boo there then. Oh well no point in worrying about it, will just have to see what transpires next.

Thanks

[kylie1dw]

Hi again, it's been a while.

Now for some update.

 

Received notice that the solicitors would no longer be acting for Arrow and they will be representing themselves.

Had allocation form and moved to my local court along with arrows offerings for my CPR request.

I received a copy of the application form and a separate copy of a cca which incoporates the terms and conditions which has no signature nor any provision for a signature to be added, and a statement of account that runs to Feb 2014. (the POC said it was allocated to them on 11/02/2011 so why would the account still be running)

 

I did not receive a copy of an assignment nor a copy of a default notice.

 

Neighbour came round yesterday with some post that had been put through their door, they have been away for a month. It was a letter from the court with a court date of 31 July 2014. Defence has to be sent 14 days before court date so only leaves me a few days to get it sorted. So what do I do now?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,

It seems that Arrow are relying on a "reconstituted " agreement.

 

 

This must have:

1. Your name and address as at the inception of the agreement.

2. The creditors name and address at inception.

3. The Ts & Cs at inception.

4. The Ts & Cs at Closure.

5. Any material changes/amendments made during the life of the agreement

6. Any other documents mentioned in the Ts & Cs.

 

 

There is no requirement for a signature.

 

 

The statement has to be an up to date one showing the current balance of the account.

 

 

A CCA request is specific The Agreement, a current statement, any other docs mentioned in the agreement.

 

 

For anything else a SAR is needed.

 

 

DNs an NOAs are not routinely stored as hard copy the creditor will have noted that a DN and or an NOA was sent on a specific date. This note is sufficient to be relied on in court.

[kylie1dw]

So basically what you are saying is I should never have defended the claim as I don't have a leg to stand on.

We never received an NOA or a default notice but because they say we did then they must be right.

[The Mould]

So basically what you are saying is I should never have defended the claim as I don't have a leg to stand on.

We never received an NOA or a default notice but because they say we did then they must be right.

 

 

 

Hold your nerve Kylie1, you are doing well thus far.

 

 

Can you please scan in a copy of the application form and the cca that the Claimant relies on?

 

 

A NOA is an important legal document that a creditor (the assignor) must serve on his debtor in accordance with s.136(1) of the Law of Property Act 1925 to inform his debtor that the agreement under which the debt is owed has been sold to the new owner (the assignee). In your case, did you engage in any discussion with the new owner as regards making payments to him under the agreement which he purchased from the original creditor?

 

 

A default notice is, again, an important legal document that all creditors are under a duty to satisfy the conditions of ss.87 & 88 of the CCA 1974 before he can become entitled to terminate the agreement and enforce.

 

 

So I agree with you, as these two notices are statutory notices, the creditor or the assignee ought to hold a copy of the same in his internal system of records, after all, creditors are able to produce copies of letters sent to their debtors.

 

 

Keep on Defending, post up a copy of those two docs please, once I have perused the same I shall come back to you and we shall see what the unrepresented Claimant does next.

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

The Mould

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

So basically what you are saying is I should never have defended the claim as I don't have a leg to stand on.

We never received an NOA or a default notice but because they say we did then they must be right.

Not said any such thing.

You have to judge if what you have been sent is viable.

You made a CCA request which Will Not provide copies of documents as NOAs or DNs.

 

 

It is accepted that a creditor annotates the customers files when issuing NOAs and DNs a creditor May supply a generic copy of what would have been sent in each case.

If you wanted to obtain copies (if any exist) a SAR is the process needed.

[kylie1dw]

Thanks for the reply. My scanner isn't working at the moment, I will have a look and see if I can fix it but don't hold out much hope. And in answer to your question regarding contact with arrow, I had never heard of them until not long before the claim was made. (See post#1)

[kylie1dw]

Apologies Brigadier, my post was written in haste and I hope I didn't offend you. I do realise your trying to help and it is very much appreciated. Just very much in panick mode at the moment as only have till weds.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Apologies Brigadier, my post was written in haste and I hope I didn't offend you. I do realise your trying to help and it is very much appreciated. Just very much in panick mode at the moment as only have till weds.

No offence taken I assure you.

I just didn't want to see you misled on what can happen.

The validity of the "reconstituted" agreement is what needs to be looked at, does it comply with the items listed in post 16.

The points regarding the NOA and DN made in post 18 do not have the impact they may have once had.

 

 

You can I believe photograph the documents with a mobile phone or digital camera then post them here.

[The Mould]

Hi again, it's been a while.

Now for some update.

 

Received notice that the solicitors would no longer be acting for Arrow and they will be representing themselves.

Had allocation form and moved to my local court along with arrows offerings for my CPR request.

I received a copy of the application form and a separate copy of a cca which incoporates the terms and conditions which has no signature nor any provision for a signature to be added, and a statement of account that runs to Feb 2014. (the POC said it was allocated to them on 11/02/2011 so why would the account still be running)

 

I did not receive a copy of an assignment nor a copy of a default notice.

 

Neighbour came round yesterday with some post that had been put through their door, they have been away for a month. It was a letter from the court with a court date of 31 July 2014. Defence has to be sent 14 days before court date so only leaves me a few days to get it sorted. So what do I do now?

 

 

Can you post up the full contents of the letter you received from the Court, leave out personal details of course.

 

 

I thought you had filed a Defence already.

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

The Mould

[kylie1dw]

Dang lost internet connection and only just got it back. Can't get the scanner to work so think everything's against me at the moment. Had a good look at the documents they sent me. The application form copy Is genuine and has a small box above name address details titled credit card account agreement. Can't read it clearly but only about half a dozen lines.

The cca/terms and conditions could possibly be a copy of what would have been sent with the card to be signed and sent back but never was. Has name/address and theirs also. Terms and conditions relate to the card at issue. The last page has the right to cancel Etc. It says

Once you have signed you will have for a short time a right to cancel this agreement.

Also under important you should read this carefully your rights, it says

The consumer credit act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which must be satisfied when this agreement is made. If you are not, we cannot enforce the Agreement against you without a court order etc etc

So if this was not a reconstituted copy and is supposed to be a copy of the genuine then shouldn't it be signed?

Sorry clutching at straws here. Still I stand by having never heard from them at all until this court claim. If it was assigned to them in 2011 then why did they never write or phone.

Oh and sorry I got confused I don't need to send a defence it was the witness statements etc that will be relied on in court. But still need to be done by this Thursday as I can hand deliver to the court.

[kylie1dw]

Should the witness statement follow the same lines as the defence?