What can you do waiting for ESA Appeal?

[martindn]

So a family friend got 0 Points on an Atos medical. Despite having had a heart attack, arthritis in practically every joint, depression and just recently developed sciatica and taking so many tablets she could set up a chemist in her kitchen, they declared her fit for work. I mean they told her over the phone to sign on at the same time as she was crippled and in bed for 4 weeks unable to move. Her only choice is Sign on jsa if she wants to, i dont know, eat at all while waiting for the Appeal. Is there anything she can do? I mean its obvious to everyone if you sign on while waiting for an appeal, naturally you are going to fail said appeal as it means you agree with the decision.

 

Is this government really mandated to destroy what little the unemployed and ill have? Whats especially worse is how a 5 minute appointment, asking irrelevant questions, has more bearing over decades of experience with your family GP.

[storm01]

Hiya, I understand that if you get the appeal in quick, you stay on the basic rate of ESA, but there are time restraints of how long a person might have been in receipt and so on, but I'd definitely make a call to ask that. I totally sympathise, it is a horrid system

[abc123def]

Just want to say though that from what I have read on forums, claiming jsa has no affect on the outcome of esa appeals, I am seeing a lot of successful appeals for people who have claimed jsa while the decision is reconsidered. It's only for a limited time, once the decision is reconsidered you can return to esa while you await a tribunal date. From what I have read too, jsa advisors who realise that you are only claiming jsa while you wait for a reconsideration decision and have x, y and z condition making employment difficult haven't been pushy or unreasonable in their demands for types of applications/courses etc. and have allowed the minimum necessary to claim.

 

That said, I can understand the worry but there appears to be no evidence for it from what I have seen.

[storm01]

„ Can ESA be paid whilst the customer is appealing?

Yes. Customers who do not satisfy the WCA (i.e. do not have LCW) and appeal the decision terminating their ESA, will be able to claim ESA at the assessment phase rate until the decision of the appeal tribunal is made. Previously, customers making an appeal would either be expected to claim Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) or Income Support (IS) at a reduced rate during the appeal process.

 

 

Excerpt from a website (if allowed to say) [commercial website edited] but it is bound to be on a DWP site...with lots of searching.

Edited February 14, 2014 by honeybee13

[**Margaret**]

:Appeals for Employment n Support Allowance:

 

Unfortunately the information accessed via the link in #4, is out of date since 28 October 13.

 

Up to date guidance about the current disputes process can be found on Gov UK at;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeals-process-changes-for-dwp-benefits-and-child-maintenance

 

Specific guidance about payment of benefits pending mandatory reconsideration and an appeal for employment n support allowance is under the heading;

 

'Payment pending appeal', in the Appeals reform: questions and answers booklet.

 

Margaret.

[storm01]

That changed quick

:Appeals for Employment n Support Allowance:

 

Unfortunately the information accessed via the link in #4, is out of date since 28 October 13.

 

Up to date guidance about the current disputes process can be found on Gov UK at;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeals-process-changes-for-dwp-benefits-and-child-maintenance

 

Specific guidance about payment of benefits pending mandatory reconsideration and an appeal for employment n support allowance is under the heading;

 

'Payment pending appeal', in the Appeals reform: questions and answers booklet.

 

Margaret.

[RaeUK]

The doesn't hang about.

[storm01]

Ha ha, it is good to know though

The doesn't hang about.

[**Margaret**]

:And the Carch22?:

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2013-11-25c.175987.h

 

Margaret.

 

But there's no easy answers for a disallowed claimant who can't meet the conditionality for jobseekers.

[**Margaret**]

:martindn:

 

Eligibility for an award of employment n support is based on a claimants ability, or lack of it, to perform prescribed activities that are relevant to the workplace. The assessment looks at how arthritis, heart disease, etcetera, limit ability to get from A to B and stay at a workstation. A simple example, is that if someone can sit to watch telly, s/he can sit at a desk in front of a computer screen.

 

Is your friend able to beg, borrow, live off family and friends for a few weeks? An immediate written request for mandatory reconsideration, without seeking or sending additional supportive evidence, is the quickest way to the appeal stage. Once an appeal's been acknowledged by the Tribunals Service, she can apply for assessment rate employment n support pending the outcome.

 

Your friend's other alternative is jobseekers. If she gets to doctors/hospital appointments, she needs to consider whether she could get to a jobcentre every two weeks. Although she'd have to do some jobsearch activity, as above, there's anecdotal evidence that lots of advisers are 'parking' claimants awaiting the outcome of a mandatory reconsideration.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[storm01]

That (in my opinion) is ludicrous, as it is forcing a person to sign or otherwise live on nothing as we can't assume everyone has savings. Another unfair flaw, BUT I get the bit of (the next post 10) re apply once logged with tribunal ie after the decision maker etc... trouble is, decision makers aren't supposed to be medically clued up (nor is ATOS really) one word against the other. Let's face it those questions throughout the forms of WCA are set to fail people and don't apply in many conditions. I think the whole thing should be scrapped and a Doctor's note be accepted and obviously if there are cases where people are making out to be ill (not in this matter) then seek more info into what help they may have been receiving in newer logged illnesses but older conditions are likely not to be cured after a long period (where applicable)...

The Govt should focus on them that clearly don't want to work and leave the sick and disabled alone as they do want to but can't and shouldn't be forced, too many people are being wrongly deemed as fit. ATOS is a waste of money in itself. The majority of people on the sick are sick. Not to sound rude, but I am very ill and incurable at that, yet it isn't on the DWP list as life threatening, yet it is in medical handbooks. I worked whilst ill up to a point of collapse and still have to prove how bad it's got. Best regards and thanks from me. I hope poster gets the satisfactory outcome

:And the Carch22?:

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2013-11-25c.175987.h

 

Margaret.

 

But there's no easy answers for a disallowed claimant who can't meet the conditionality for jobseekers.

[**Margaret**]

:storm01:

 

My default position is co-operation with Atos/Work n Pensions, but if it's a choice between co-operation and freezing or starving to death? No contest!!!

 

Ironically, part of the rationale for mandatory reconsideration was to cut the number of allegedly un-necessary appeals by encouraging claimants to offer extra supportive evidence sooner rather than later.

 

Margaret.

[storm01]

I am sure it is hard for the workers, so I am not being defensive personally. It is all complex, so very handy to know and assistance is appreciated. It is true there is no option, it is just it doesn't make sense and depends on how long to make a decision with a heavy workload and of course what that decision is. I would like to think there are enough positive reviews as opposed to hands tied a little, with the evidence in hand.

 

 

This wasn't my post, so not to impose too much but aside from ATOS being a little harsh, the money could have been better spent on keeping public sector jobs and as I mentioned the Doctor's note, it could be easier to put a memo via NHS etc to emphasise they're diagnosis might be relied upon, after all ATOS supposedly ring the Doctors anyway, it is that GPs don't always give enough info, they don't like to. There could always be a tick box added to sick note (they already say fit, unfit or how long expected til they review) but to maybe classify illnesses to fit more with capability. Maybe I live in a simple world or maybe some of us have the answers and them up top just can't see it....yet haha

But thanks again

 

 

 

 

:storm01:

 

My default position is co-operation with Atos/Work n Pensions, but if it's a choice between co-operation and freezing or starving to death? No contest!!!

 

Part of the rationale for mandatory reconsideration was to cut the number of allegedly un-necessary appeals by encouraging claimants to offer extra supportive evidence sooner rather than later.

 

Margaret.

[martindn]

Thank you for the help, i did read it all and she submitted, and just today received the 'Mandatory reconsideration letter' which turned out same as the WCA. What do you do from this point? Is there any specific forms or items she needs to appeal and receive Assessment rate? 'Fit'note i assume? She has had no money for 3 or 4 weeks now, so we have had to support her she has been too ill to go on JSA especially mentally having been on it myself i can understand why.

[**Margaret**]

:martindn:

 

From this point your friend needs to consider whether she's grounds for an appeal to the Tribunals Service. Criteria for an award at;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa214-a-guide-to-employment-and-support-allowance-the-work-capability-assessment

 

Exceptional/special circumstances at pages 10 - 12.

Descriptors of activities that are relevant to the workplace at pages 18 - 28.

 

Should your friend decide to lodge an appeal, she'll need the following form and guide from the Tribunals Service;

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/sscs001-eng.pdf

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/sscs001a-eng.pdf

 

Both the form and the guide can be downloaded and printed from the internet. If you don't have the necessary technology, contact the address nearest to you from the list below;

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/contacts/hmcts/tribunals/social-security-and-child-support

 

Your friend's appeal needs to be received by the Tribunals Service within one month of the date on her mandatory reconsideration notice. For now, Section 5 of the form only needs basic reasons for the appeal. Along the lines of;

 

Since my heart attack, cos of breathlessness I can't repeatedly mobilise 100 metres, so my friend has to leave work early to take me to the doctor/pharmacy.

 

Cos of depression, it's hard to get showered and dressed. If my friend didn't phone, I'd stay in bed all day.

 

Some people find it easier to write Section 5 as a separate statement. Enclose any extra supportive evidence you've already got with the SSCS1 form, but don't let waiting for evidence delay it. Remember to enclose one copy of the mandatory reconsideration notice.

 

Once the Tribunals Service have acknowledged her appeal, assuming her doctor's prepared to write Med 3 (unfit) notes, your friend can apply for assessment rate employment n support pending the outcome. Doesn't need a new claim, and there isn't a form, so I'd suggest a letter to her benefit delivery centre with the Med 3 stapled to it.

 

Phew . New procedure for disputing Work n Pensions decisions and there's a lot to learn. Easier said than done, but if you and your friend genuinely believe she's not fit for work don't let yourselves be put off by the paperchase. Praps take a few days to read the guides and think about Section 5 of the SSCS1, so long as you don't miss the deadline.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[martindn]

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

Thankyou very much its all ready to go, i was going to send off her medical note inside the appeal for the assessment rate, but is it definitely required to go to the delivery centre? I just love how none of this is explained by them, they either presume you know it or they do not care enough to explain.

[**Margaret**]

:martindn:

 

The new disputes process separates appeals (the SSCS1 form) which should be sent directly to the Tribunals Service from payments of assessment rate employment n support pending the outcome, which are still administered by Jobcentreplus.

 

When the Tribunals Service receive your friend's appeal they'll acknowledge receipt to your friend, and send a copy to Jobcentreplus for their response at the same time. Once your friend's received the acknowledgement the application for assessment rate, with Med 3 (unfit) note, needs to be sent to her Jobcentreplus benefit delivery centre.

 

Didn't want to overwhelm you with too much reading at once but now you've got the first part done, CAG has a guide to preparation of a written submission and the actual hearing at;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information

 

Margaret.

[martindn]

So we received the trubunal form low and behold its messed up , in the pack is several "hearing enquiry forms" all named under different people round the country all except my friend, the original letter acknowledging the appeal is labelled under my friend. What a cluster**** this whole system is. Do we have to restart this whole process? They gave us 12 days to send it off from the 6th march and they cant even ensure we get the right forms, what is worse is that other people will have ours and we theirs.

[**Margaret**]

:martindn:

 

No, thankfully you don't have to start again if your friend's appeal has been acknowledged. Jobcentreplus should have a copy of the acknowledgement, but just in case; enclose a copy of it with the written request to Jobcentreplus for assessment rate employment n support pending the outcome of the appeal, and the Med 3 (unfit) note.

 

Assuming you completed the SSCS1 form correctly, your friend doesn't need a hearing enquiry form, which is part of the pre 28 October 13 disputes process. In the new system the information is captured in Section 7 of the SSCS1 form.

 

Clearly your friend's receipt of a bunch of other appellants' forms is a serious breach of data protection. And a harassed tribunal clerk's probably looking for them!! They need to be returned. With a complaint if you want to make an issue of it! Can remember an incident of this with Jobcentreplus when a senior employee arrived at a claimant's front door with some flowers in exchange for the recovered documents.

 

Come back to us if you've further queries about preparations for the hearing.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.