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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
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No Change given to minor


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I gave my daughter 14 enough money for her fare to go from school to a friends

intending to pick her up afterwards

 

local bus co driver insisted she was "adult" despite being in middle school uniform

then to really hack me off she gave the £10 she keeps in the back of her school ID card as emergency money

to driver for full fare some 60p more

 

he took it and gave her no change but a receipt she could "redeem" at a bus station for her change.

 

Any idea if this is legal as I dont think a minor could agree to accepting what I can only call a prommissory note.

 

He didnt tell her he was going to do so as she said she would have got off

and either caught the next bus or gone to shop and bought a packet of crisps or some small value item.

 

Any legal eagles out there got an opinion before I write to company?

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I was a bus driver in Central London. If we have run out of change and the person is Insistent they wish to board Instead of seeking change we issue those notices to collect from the bus garage. As the driver would be able to cash in at the end of their shift and the remainder would be set aside.

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Thats my point my daughter was not told before she handed the money over if she had agreed then while i am not sure a bus co can act as a "bank" and issue its own money then i might be more sympathetic

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Thats my point my daughter was not told before she handed the money over if she had agreed then while i am not sure a bus co can act as a "bank" and issue its own money then i might be more sympathetic

 

From memory this procedure was imposed by tfl I think. To stop people with only notes being refused travel.

 

With regards to the driver charging in the first place. He should have issued her a slip that allows her to pay later at any train or bus station. An not taken the money as that's also an option.

Further. If she is young she could have been classed as vulnerable.

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One day one of these bus drivers will get in gigantic trouble.

I lost count of how many times I witnessed drivers refusing to carry minors because they were short a few pence on the fare.

I usually pay the missing pennies myself and tell the driver that he cannot leave minors on the street, especially at night.The unswer is always the same: if they can't prove they're minors, then they must be adults.

Unfortunately one day a youngster will be denied boarding and will be mugged/raped.

The driver will end up in a lot of sh@t and also get the sack.

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Yep not TFL though local first bus I could understand if not in school uniform getting on at a bus stop nearest to school Common sense would have said take the child fare and advise that she would require proof of age in future and advise local schools that however young a child must somehow have proof of age..probably dont want to do that as they are heavily subsidised and the locals might kick up better just to keep making young people vunerable or as now use dads taxi. Many yp dont have proof of age the pass approved cards are not accepted in lots of places do you want you 14 year old lugging a passport around if they have one just the cost if lost frightens me. These companies make uprules as they go along only able to make profits because we subsidise them. Sadly king 12345 the driver in the event you are suggesting would be sacked if they did use common sense and supported if they were "following orders" an excuse thats been around a bit though no doubt there would be a full review of procedures etc.

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You mention school ID card... wouldn't this been suffice proof that your daughter was entitled to travel for child/half fare?

 

In any event, there are a few points to note here. Speaking as an ex-bus driver myself, you would be amazed at what the bus driver sees every day. "Children" attempting to board the bus after putting a fag out and then attempting to pay half fare, boarding with an open tin of lager and attempting to pay half fare, attempting to pay half fare even though they have tattoo's and my favorite; "single moms" trying to pay half fare then expecting their baby to travel for free!

 

Having said the above, I agree that while wearing school uniform should be sufficient proof for the driver to allow the young person to travel as half fare, believe it or not up until 2006, full fare was charged at 14 on the Isle of Wight buses.

 

But lets no forget, we don't know the driver's side of this particular case... it can differ dramatically from what the child's version is.

 

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Unfortunately one day a youngster will be denied boarding and will be mugged/raped.

The driver will end up in a lot of sh@t and also get the sack.

 

 

I can't see why the bus driver would be at fault or get in trouble for that.

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What is vulnerable, thats the problem.

The bus driver has to make the decision based on his experience.

 

Also, driver let's passenger on making decision as vulnerable. Revenue get on an say they don't agree - book the driver an then driver gets pulled in by garage mgt. YES this does happen.

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Also, driver let's passenger on making decision as vulnerable. Revenue get on an say they don't agree - book the driver an then driver gets pulled in by garage mgt. YES this does happen.

 

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.................

All I ask is to be treated fairly and lawfully.

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