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    • Including Default Notice Andy? Ok, I think this is the best I can do.. it all makes sense with references to their WS. They have included exhibits that dates don't match the WS about them, small but still.. if you're going to reference letters giving dates, then the exhibits should be correct, no? I know I redacted them too much, but one of the dates differs to the WS by a few months. IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim. 1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 24/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
    • AMEX and TSB the 2 Creditors who you need to worry about the least, ever!  Just stop paying them and forget about it, ignore all their threat o gram letters.  Only if, and with these 2 it's a massive if, you end up with a claim form you need to respond, and there will be plenty of help here.
    • No, nothing from Barclays. Turns out i have 2 accounts on here, and i posted originally on the other one. Sorry about that.  
    • Always send with proof of posting from your Post Office, so there is a trail. Conversations , are designed to intimidate into paying, Emails are designed as another way of bombarding. Only EVER communicate in writing, by post.  
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In Court Friday LLoyds credit Card T&C's Check please.. **DISCONTINUED**


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THANKS GUYS.. FEELS GREAT..

 

Back to business... Lets finish this thread off . Is there a good link for the discontinuance part..

 

Should I bother with the counterclaim and if so how do I do it.

 

Are they still defending against it. The notice says the claimant Lloyds Bank discontinues all of this claim.

 

I do not want to go for the counterclaim and lose and owing them costs.

 

 

Also who do I contact about costs, is it a wasted order..

 

I probably have £900 in costs and the same in lip costs. It was £720 in the last hearing but have had to do a paginated WS of 15 pages plus a Skeleton.

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Could someone go over my letter I intend to send.. (Not sure)

Without prejudice (except as to costs)

 

I am now in receipt of your Notice to Discontinue your claim against me.

 

There still remains my counterclaim.

 

As you are aware I am unable to put a full list of the charges as you have failed to provide a full list of statements and or default charges. However I have attached a claim calculation of £1293.11, based on traceable default fees.

 

As per my Counterclaim I seek compound interest in restitution. You have been unduly enriched.

 

At no point have you been lawfully entitled to add charges to my account. Below are some but not all the points to be included in my skeleton argument.

 

The 2003 Agreement that you sought to rely on is not signed by the Creditor and as such is an Unexecuted Agreement and lawfully you have no right to charge any fees. You could of course ask the court to enforce the Agreement but that could not be done without a full hearing and you have discontinued.

Your defence to the counterclaim relies upon a pleaded date 1st May 1997, this is not in line with the above 2003 Agreement.

Further You have pleaded some information at Para7 of your defence to the counterclaim, stating among other things

(1) “at the time of applying for the the Credit Card and at the time of the account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank’s Charges that are set out in clause 8 of the Terms and conditions that Govern the Agreement. “....It is clear as a pikestaff, there are no default charges set out in clause 8 of the 2003 conditions. You are attempting to mislead the court.

 

(2) Later in Paragraph 7 of the defence to the counterclaim you include clause 8.1 showing the default Charges were £12. Again this information is not included in your terms and conditions provided with the 2003 agreement. On that basis it is clear you have attempted to mislead the Courts and myself as the defendant.

 

(3)Further you are in breach of Schedule 1 para 22 of the regulations. You have failed to set out in your terms and conditions the default charges payable by the defendant on breach of the agreement, that is in itself unexecuted!

 

In recent years, Courts have been happy to accept claims for bank charges that exceed 6 years, whilst having regards to the precedent set between KLEINWORT BENSON -v- LINCOLN CITY COUNCIL under section 32 of the limitation act 1980.

Should County Court action be needed I will be seeking to rely on this.

 

Given the above and in order to bring this Claim to a fair, quick and satisfactory Closure, I suggest the following;

The counterclaim in Full £1293.11.

I remind the claimant, given the nature of this account there are undoubtedly more charges I could add. Should this matter go to court I reserve the right to amend this amount

 

 

COSTS.

At the last hearing You were given a schedule of costs to date of some £720. Since then I have done a long and complicated paginated witness statement and a detailed inclusive skeleton Argument. Plus further readings and preparation. I note I am allowed to claim up to 2/3rds of what you would your costs would be.

Costs = £1070.

I reserve the right to amend the amount should the counter claim go to court

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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After an hour of negotiations we have agreed to bear our own costs on the counterclaim. I would have had a 90% chance of winning..but hey! Take the £10,000 and be happy. If I had lost they would have had costs in at £3,000., and if the Judge did award them, it would hurt.

 

I have to say I had to threaten to turn up on Thursday and add "you know how stubborn I am"

 

Again thank you for your help

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Well done. So you can now put this one under "sorted" :)

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Or perhaps consider making a donation ?:-)

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Donation is definitely coming.. skint at moment.. really skint!!

 

SCM seemed happy to get a check out quickly.. so putting my costs together now.. Can I claim for ink and paper etc or just hours spent

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Aah donation may be delayed .. offering around a third of what I was asking.

 

which is aproximately half what the judge gave his approval to in the second hearing.. Noting it was acceptable given the chaos/complexity of the case.

 

All help appreciated.

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Suggest a letter to them, recorded, restating your claim. You might want to offer a small compromise on a without prejudice basis in the interests of getting things sorted, but that’s down to you.

 

Make clear that you will resort to the court via an N252 if necessary. Should wake them up. They’re hoping you’ll go away.

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Suggest a letter to them, recorded, restating your claim. You might want to offer a small compromise on a without prejudice basis in the interests of getting things sorted, but that’s down to you.

 

Make clear that you will resort to the court via an N252 if necessary. Should wake them up. They’re hoping you’ll go away.

 

Thanks DB as I thought... Will this do it?

 

Without Prejudice save as to costs.

 

I note your letter dated July 2014.

 

Your offer is not accepted. It does not represent the true, fair, reasonable and proportionate costs, of the time I have spent defending your somewhat chaotic Claim, that you Discontinued.

 

You state, “you do not agree that £xxxx.xx is reasonable or proportionate” yet you fail to specify why you do not agree.

 

 

 

In the second hearing, Judge X held that my Costs up to the second hearing in March were; “reasonable at £720, given the complexities of the case”. He also advised me “to make sure all of my costs were up to date and presented at the next hearing”. Since then I have done a lot of unnecessary work as you discontinued at the last minute. All of the above will undoubtedly have an influence on any detailed assessment hearing.

 

It is worth pointing out however, that the court will recognise that a LiP will most likely spend more time in a case than a solicitor. The relevant Rule is CPR 48.6 with guidance appearing in The Supreme Court Costs Office Guide (COG) Practice Direction at CPR PD 48 COG 22.4 and .5.

 

The question for the Judge considering the bill is if this case had been conducted by a solicitor, what would that solicitor’s reasonable total charge have been for doing that work? Having arrived at that hypothetical figure, the costs judge will assess the bill but disallow whatever the total bill comes to from exceeding two-thirds of the hypothetical figure.

 

It seems to me , given the amount and length of All of your Varied and conflicting Witness statements, agreements etc. Any detailed Assessment will find my Costs to be absolutely fair.

 

However in order to avoid further wasted courts time, I will make a reduction in my defence costs to xxxx.xx. This amount to be paid within 7 days.

 

If this is not acceptable, please identify where you think I have not been proportionate or reasonable. It is not my wish, but I will resort to the court via an N252 if necessary.

 

Kind Regards

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Sounds a bit complex to me, but it covers points that you were party to.

 

 

Bit complex = yes. I could simplify, but if it goes to assessment should I have stated my case? ..

I will give it some thought.

 

 

Thanks as always DB..

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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  • 10 months later...

I keep getting demand letters from a certain DCA about this case.

 

bit annoyed as I thought this was done and dusted by way of a tomlin order. Is this normal or should I write a letter saying this has been dealt with by way of a tomlin order?

 

One thing that worries me is itv was one of SCM kast cases and I wonder if they did all their paperwork properly..

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Tomlin Order....thought the claim was Discontinued?

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Tomlin Order....thought the claim was Discontinued?

 

Had to sign a confidentiality clause.

 

they sent a Notice of discontinuance to me and filed one with the court.

 

they further sent me a tomlin order stating they had discontinued

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Ah ok...well just drop them a little ditty stating the above.

We could do with some help from you.

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Ah. It seems the Tomlin order did not end things. Rather left it open. You’re simply in a position where you’re back to square one, as if the previous case never happened.

 

However, I think you have two choices.

 

1. Ignore them/tell them to go away.

 

2. Refer them to two significant judgments that would make them look foolish in court. They’re not binding as they’re from the lower courts, but they would look like idiots if they ever threaten any further legal action (has a threat of legal action been made by the DCA?).

 

The first judgment concerns MKDP. The judge stated clearly that the claimant should have stated clearly the documents on which it wished to rely (your claimant didn’t have a clue), and should not breach court orders regarding disclosure, which your claimant did. The confused evidence also called into question their statement of truth, which the judge commented on in this case. https://consumercreditlitigationanddebtcollection.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/the-mkdp-judgment/

 

The second case to look at is Grace v Blackhorse – http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2014/1413.html and https://consumercreditlitigationanddebtcollection.wordpress.com/2014/10/31/grace-v-blackhorse-court-of-appeal-ruling-my-view-as-the-fee-earner-responsible-for-the-case/

 

It seems very clear to me – and probably the reason for Lloyds’ discontinuance – that they had no enforceable agreement, such was the mess of their case and the number of unlinked agreements. I think this makes any agreement (whichever one they choose) very probably irredeemably unenforceable, and that further means the debt should not be recorded with the credit reference agencies (check this).

 

There’s loads of other cases you could throw at them, but I would also suggest, for the sake of £1, sending off another CCA request to Westcott. Bound to confuse them and Lloyds...

 

Things would have been a lot simpler if you’d come back to us for advice on the Tomlin order. They have well and truly fooled you, avoided paying costs, and potentially left the door open for further litigation unless you close them down sharpish.

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THanks DB...2. Refer them to two significant judgments that would make them look foolish in court. They’re not binding as they’re from the lower courts, but they would look like idiots if they ever threaten any further legal action (has a threat of legal action been made by the DCA?).

 

NO .

 

Things would have been a lot simpler if you’d come back to us for advice on the Tomlin order. They have well and truly fooled you, avoided paying costs, and potentially left the door open for further litigation unless you close them down sharpish.

 

It seems that way... however I did get costs! and they agreed it was the end of the matter full stop.

 

pm'd you

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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I have pM'd you.

 

No legal threat as yet.

 

I did get costs letter and cheque as proof.

 

They discontinued on the 8th Jly sent a tomlin on the 14th court on the 16th. I was not happy with the tomlin and phoned them ! they agreed to remove the costs bit and confirm no further action.

 

Fortunately I have a letter jly 14th confirming the phone call took place and they further confirm they would be paying my costs. plus it states; it contains attached a consent order containing the terms agreed over the phone regarding the withdrawal of my counterclaim.

 

The consent order was not attached just the tomlin order.

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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Sorry, posts crossed.

 

Consent order/Tomlin pretty much the same thing, though a Tomlin order gives the right to continue the legal process without starting new proceedings – which is not needed here. A Tomlin order actually keeps the case live in case of a breach of the order, but they have discontinued. A Tomlin order would only be needed to protect them from your counterclaim, as the discontinuation of their claim was already effective, which makes it a bit one-sided.

 

So you’d need to rely on their word that it’s the end of proceedings – do you have that in writing?

 

Without a signed Tomlin or consent order, things are a bit tricky otherwise. If the order stated there would be no further action, then they would have breached it and you could have gone for damages.

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  • 8 months later...

can anyone point me in the direction of the latest failure to comply s78 request template please. I have looked ..promise.

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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current wisdom is don't bother

simply invites letter tennis

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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current wisdom is don't bother

simply invites letter tennis

 

 

dx

 

Thanks DX. Yes..I agree. Just thought I would follow cag guidance always served me well in the past.

WON lloyds walked away after second hearing £10,000 2014

 

WON Mbna after 3rd hearing £5,000, 2014

 

WON Barclaycard 1st hearing £2015, 4,500

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