Cause of action/statute barred

[Mike_hawk]

I think that if anyone knows what the pertinent question was it would be me

 

If we agree that the breach is the cause...when do you believe the breach happens?

 

Why do you believe it....that is no answer...the law evolves and changes. In addition I have seen nothing that relates to a regulated agreement ( I am not saying nothing exists)

 

No I wasn't referring to BMW v Hart , I was referring to regulated agreements

 

 

Probably best not to edit after you've already received a response........ leads to others confusion

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The confusion seems to be from the rather misleading phrase ' the first missed payment' this clearly is wrong, the date of the last payment ever made or the day after it is what applies.

 

For an OD the date it is formally recalled applies, for Fixed Term Loans secured on goods (HP) the date of default as per the appeal court decision.

 

I understand that the decision is likely to be overturned fairly soon.

[fletch70]

Mike, maybe it is a case of miscommunication . I know exactly what I asked and yes you have said that it depends on the contract but then it seems that you and Dodge seem to be getting into the mine is bigger than yours rather than having a rational discussion.

 

For what its worth I like definitive answers and a non definitive answer such as it depends just feeds my anxiety. The fact that some DCA's are now quoting the date of default as the COA is a concern . Now I am convinced that is wrong but still leaves the question open.

[Mike_hawk]

Mike, maybe it is a case of miscommunication . I know exactly what I asked and yes you have said that it depends on the contract but then it seems that you and Dodge seem to be getting into the mine is bigger than yours rather than having a rational discussion.

 

For what its worth I like definitive answers and a non definitive answer such as it depends just feeds my anxiety. The fact that some DCA's are now quoting the date of default as the COA is a concern . Now I am convinced that is wrong but still leaves the question open.

 

 

I like people to read my post before answering and not misquote me but we can't have everything in life.

 

 

Got nothing against Dodge except that he regularly misquotes me, difficult to have any discussion in those circumstances.

 

 

An agreement, regulated or otherwise is a contract. The contract [unless very poorly drafted] will contain terms expressing breach and remedy........... ergo, it depends on the terms of the contract.

[fletch70]

The confusion seems to be from the rather misleading phrase ' the first missed payment' this clearly is wrong, the date of the last payment ever made or the day after it is what applies.

 

For an OD the date it is formally recalled applies, for Fixed Term Loans secured on goods (HP) the date of default as per the appeal court decision.

 

I understand that the decision is likely to be overturned fairly soon.

 

Brig

Why would, in the cases I have suggested, the last payment be the cause of action?

At the very least the cause would be the first missed payment

 

You have I am afraid already contradicted yourself on advice given on other threads when it comes to overdrafts , you have told people it is from the last payment made

 

As for the BMW v Hart...has it gone higher?

If it is overturned or not , at present it still stands

[Peterbard]

Thanks for this thread Fletch. Those with the facility to understand the relevant arguments will see the real issues and make an informed decision as to their stance on this.

 

I cannot see the debate on here going further without new data, so I will withdraw.

I would say as a parting thought, that people should not ignore relevant authority and opinion already quoted on here.

 

My mind on this is clear, not that I am necessarily right of course, I know that Sequency for instance disagrees with on some aspects of the DN point, and his arguments are as valid as mine.

One thing for sure, if and when a decision is passed down which clarifies the situation, it will involve issues and law raised by us and your good self, as with the best will in the world much on this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the operation of the SOL in relation to credit agreements.

 

[fletch70]

Maybe we can go no further on this discussion and we do need to leave it to the courts.

 

Most people I think have made their views very clear and I can not see much change in their positions happening any time soon. I can see a time in the not too distant future when it will be settled especially as the repeal of S127(3) has made the UE fight less freely available

 

Does anyone know if the BMW v Hart case is now closed or as suggested by the brig is it ongoing.

 

Dodge , although we may not always agree it has been a pleasure and you know how to reach me should you care to

[Desperate Daniella]

I think you are absolutely right, fletch.

 

Everyone has had their say and what is needed is a definitive decision by the Courts.

 

Happy Christmas everyone!

[paulwlton]

I like people to read my post before answering and not misquote me but we can't have everything in life.

 

 

Got nothing against Dodge except that he regularly misquotes me, difficult to have any discussion in those circumstances.

 

 

An agreement, regulated or otherwise is a contract. The contract [unless very poorly drafted] will contain terms expressing breach and remedy........... ergo, it depends on the terms of the contract.

 

I believe the terms and conditions are a key ingredient in determining when time starts running.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Paul,

 

What would you suggest for when there is nothing about it in the T&Cs? I have an agreement which doesn't give any information about their actions in the case of a default or non payment.

 

DD

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Credit card agreements in particular often have an 'associated' document usually a 'booklet' which contains a large amount of information regarding the administration of accounts, these are often discarded when received and never read.

 

Such a booklet will contain what you are looking for.

Edited December 18, 2013 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[Peterbard]

Credit card agreements in particular often have an 'associated' document usually a 'booklet' which contains a large amount of information regarding the administration of accounts, these are often discarded when received and never read.

 

Those would be the terms and conditions, a statutory requirement, under section 63 of the act

[sequenci]

 

Everyone has had their say and what is needed is a definitive decision by the Courts.

 

 

There have been plenty of cases to choose from.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Lets see some!!

[sequenci]

Lets see some!!

 

If you have a read through the thread I've posted up various authorities already. Start with those and let me know your thoughts

[fletch70]

How about BMW v Hart :lol:

[sequenci]

How about BMW v Hart :lol:

 

I honestly believe that case simply reaffirms one of the core principles of limitations - which is that the statute runs from the earliest time at which an action could be brought. In that particular case it's clear that the contract defines when the time starts to run - which, of course, is likely to be the case with the vast majority of contracts.

[fletch70]

I was only laughing because I knew how some people would react

 

However if you look at this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?413080-ASDA-Credit-card-GE-money-Help-needed

 

The actual agreement is in posy 6 by CitB you will see they say they will not demand the money until any legal requirements are fulfilled.

 

Any thoughts on that would be appreciated by anyone BTW

[sequenci]

I was only laughing because I knew how some people would react

 

However if you look at this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?413080-ASDA-Credit-card-GE-money-Help-needed

 

The actual agreement is in posy 6 by CitB you will see they say they will not demand the money until any legal requirements are fulfilled.

 

Any thoughts on that would be appreciated by anyone BTW

 

That's an interesting contract, it appears pretty ambiguous from where I'm sitting. Wouldn't you agree?

[fletch70]

There is not much about that contract that I am happy with..but yes it does seem a tad odd

[Desperate Daniella]

Credit card agreements in particular often have an 'associated' document usually a 'booklet' which contains a large amount of information regarding the administration of accounts, these are often discarded when received and never read.

 

Such a booklet will contain what you are looking for.

 

Thank you, Brig, but it is a very old account, over 20 years old, and there was no booklet.

[Peterbard]

Thank you, Brig, but it is a very old account, over 20 years old, and there was no booklet.

 

The requirement for a creditor to send the terms and conditions in the carrier with the card was introduced in 1985.

[Peterbard]

I was only laughing because I knew how some people would react

 

However if you look at this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?413080-ASDA-Credit-card-GE-money-Help-needed

 

The actual agreement is in posy 6 by CitB you will see they say they will not demand the money until any legal requirements are fulfilled.

 

Any thoughts on that would be appreciated by anyone BTW

 

It seems right to me and as I said a few posts ago should be the requirement in all termination clauses under the act.

 

I believe this to be the cause of action because it is the earliest point that a demand can be made.

[charharp]

I'm confused as to why Brig has stated on an OD it is from the date it was formally recalled when he has previously been adamant it was from last payment. I still believe there is a big difference between an overdraft account that is recalled and one that goes into unplanned overdraft and is never corrected. We need to see some cases on this. I can't find any.

[fletch70]

With respect this is not the first time he has done a 180 degree turn. He makes a mule look compliant (or even me for that matter lol)

Sometimes it is easy to get locked into a viewpoint that may have merit in some circumstances but not in others and keep repeating that viewpoint.

 

Only recently i saw a poster (non of the site team) make a statement that if not on your credit file it is SB. Anyone with a brain knows that although that MAY be true in some cases you would be a fool to take it as truth.

Another one is that if it has been sold it is a bad debt...again anyone with commercial experience would see why that doesn't hold water

As Dodge has said , this is the problem with forums, people buy into false beliefs and repeat them