@lidluk Athena Anpr ticket

[Charge fighter]

Hi

 

 

Not sure how to start a new thread, so have added this.

 

 

Basically received a charge letter from Athena ANPR for a supposed overstay in a LIDL car park. So far sent three e-mails, first one Nov 4 basically asking them to prove who was driving the car admitting no liability. Last e-mail from them was to attached a template letter on not driver (England and Wales), I have again challenged them to prove who was driving the vehicle and to either drop the threat or take me to court, and don't know if it matters but threatened to get the BPA involved.

 

 

Best advice on next step, just ignore anything further now? Just want it out of the way really.

[ploddertom]

New thread created

[Charge fighter]

Thanks!

 

 

I should add I have kicked off with Lidl customer services too, telling them I will take my custom elsewhere, not heard back from my last message, but they seem to be siding with Athena so far.

 

 

Have obviously been looking over the internet at the general car parking charge issue. I know most seem to say don't bother engaging with them, tried baiting them to see if I can get them to drop it sooner really.

[esmerobbo]

"I was not the driver" is not a defence if they have complied with POFA2012. When did the incident happen and how many days later did you receive the NTK?

 

I would say in Athenas case if you have proof you were a customer they normally cancel it.

[Charge fighter]

I have not confirmed or denied I was the driver, they have inferred from my messages that I have suggested I was not driving, and are obviously going after me as the rk.

 

 

I have basically asked them to prove I was the driver, as I understand it they have a contract with the driver, but I am under no legal obligation to reveal this? Would they have to prove this first to bring about a successful prosecution in any case? Of course they can come after me as rk in the meantime to try and recover their charge.

 

 

The supposed overstay was around just over 10 minutes over allotted time, I did shop at Lidl that day and the shop next door as they share the car park, after a visit in town. Looking at receipt If I had left after shopping at Lidl I might have been OK regardless, went next door and this took me slightly over. Incident date 29/10, franking date on envelope 31/10, and my first e-mail reply 4/11, probably the date I got the letter.

 

 

Obviously a defence in court would more likely to be along the lines of unreasonable charges. Would you suggest I get these two receipts or just the Lidl one over to them by e-mail then? Thoughts or advice please?

Edited November 25, 2013 by Charge fighter

[esmerobbo]

I would send copies of the two receipts over its best to try and get rid of the problem as quickly and as easily as possible, most contracts have a genuine customer clause in them meaning that the PPC will cancel, if it is proven you are a genuine customer. Some like Parkingeye for some reason believe a genuine customer is only someone who spends £30 or more.

 

Since the introduction of keeper liability Athena have never issued a claim, they are pretty tame but to save the letter chain send the receipts, if they want to play then you can then play with them.

[Charge fighter]

Right an update after I sent copy receipts to them, they have come back with an offer to close the matter under goodwill at £20 if payment made by a certain date. My initial reaction after being chased for £45 then £90 would be to settle the matter now to have it done away with, or they are threatening to continue and pursue for the full amount. I detest paying these sort of charges, but pay it and learn the lesson?

 

 

Anybody think they would keep fighting this and make it hard for them if they were in the same situation - the last reply said they have never issued a claim on keeper liability which I presume is the path they would have to go down now? Would anybody be cheeky enough to send a reduced payment in full and final settlement, or anyone willing to share how they would deal with the matter as it stands?

[ericsbrother]

PE have an agreement with Lidl that £30 is the lower limit for having cause to stay in the car park for more than the allotted time. Problem for that is the time varies from store to store so how it can then be justified is beyond logic. Lidl have a special customer services section that deal with parking complaints so hang on to your receipt and give them a bell and they will invite you to write to them to arrange the cancellation. I reckon it is better to get the supermarket to cancel so they know exactly how big a problem they have caused themselves.

This is a reason why you have been offered a settlement at £20, Athena know they are going to get nothing and will have to pay the admin costs for this so stick with the store's system and you will rub salt into the would.

[Charge fighter]

I have already been in touch with Lidl customer services, whether this was passed to the specialised section to deal with parking issues, I am not sure, but this was their stance approximately 10 days ago, and this is before receipts were e-mailed to Athena;

 

 

We refer to your recent communication with us regarding the Parking Charge Notice you received.

As you are probably aware, Lidl UK GmbH is a national retailer. As such, we have stores in locations with limited parking space and in common with many of our competitors, our store car parks are abused to a significant and detrimental extent. We have therefore judged it necessary to take measures so that our stores parking facilities are available first and foremost to our customers.

In order to ensure that sufficient parking spaces are available at all times to our customers, Lidl employs third party contractors to monitor and control our car parks. So far, this service has proved reliable and effective in reducing car park abuse and in freeing up spaces for our customers. If you wish to contest a parking charge please contact the Car Parking Company direct. The address details will be found on the parking charge notice.

Legitimate appeals can only be submitted in writing. To aid your appeal please send copies of any supporting documentation you may have. Please note that we cannot cancel car parking charges on behalf of the Car Park Management Company as we would not comply with the regulations set out by the British Parking Association.

In closing, we hope that you can understand our position on this matter and that you will continue to be a valued Lidl customer.

Yours sincerely,

For and on behalf of Lidl UK GmbH

Basically the way I am reading it, is that they (Lidl) won't cancel the charges. I have made them aware that they have done so for other people from what I have read on other forum messages, and also the whole negative publicity they are creating for themselves with the general parking situation.

[esmerobbo]

I would contact Lidl again saying you have done as they requested taken the matter up with Athena, proved you were a genuine customer, yet they still want you to pay £20 for the privilege of spending money at Lidl.

[Charge fighter]

Thanks for the messages sent in reply so far, I have just sent my message to Lidl as the last poster suggested, will see if they do the right thing.

[Charge fighter]

Have just had the standard reply back from Lidl at the beginning of the week, saying it has been passed on to the relevant department and thanks for your patience while we look into, otherwise nothing further, to be honest I don't think they will be back in time before this reduced charge is taken away.

 

 

Can anybody advise what other options there are, would there be any case for POPLA to get involved in the meantime, is this still an option especially with regards to the dates mentioned on post 5? Any other things I can get pro-active with in the meantime?

[esmerobbo]

Did they send the POPLA code with the rejection? Or the offer?

[Charge fighter]

I have not mentioned POPLA in any of my messages so far, and I think Athena mentioned POPLA in their first reply but I wasn't a code, it was this extract.

 

 

'We are under no obligation at present to provide you with a copy of our contract with the landowner, but be advised that we do have the appropriate contractual authority to levy these charges and we can provide proof of this to both POPLA and the small claims courts.'

So other than that, no I am not aware of any POPLA code in any correspondence so far.

[esmerobbo]

Then you cant go to POPLA you will have 28 days to appeal once they give you one, or they will give up.

[Charge fighter]

Does the fact their first reply to my correspondence was the 14th November change anything?

 

 

The way I believe it is now, this £20 "offer" is pretty much up, Lidl have not come back to me in the meantime with any sort of response, so Athena basically go two ways now, they will either drop it, or more likely as they have mentioned, keep hounding me for this charge as their terms on this settlement offer have not been met.

 

 

Of course the best result for me would be for them to drop the case, and take no money off me in the process. I don't really want the hassle of the small claims court, but given that I have gone this far up to now, it looks to be going that way to me. Could I still contest this in court on an unfair charge basis, even though I have not really done so in my correspondence so far? Is there any other routes worth exploring in the meantime?

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Does the fact their first reply to my correspondence was the 14th November change anything?

 

 

The way I believe it is now, this £20 "offer" is pretty much up, Lidl have not come back to me in the meantime with any sort of response, so Athena basically go two ways now, they will either drop it, or more likely as they have mentioned, keep hounding me for this charge as their terms on this settlement offer have not been met.

 

 

Of course the best result for me would be for them to drop the case, and take no money off me in the process. I don't really want the hassle of the small claims court, but given that I have gone this far up to now, it looks to be going that way to me. Could I still contest this in court on an unfair charge basis, even though I have not really done so in my correspondence so far? Is there any other routes worth exploring in the meantime?

 

Sorry but you are wrong, it does not look like it is going to court at all . Athena dont do court,it isnt the way they operate, so i wouldnt worry, i

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

I have already been in touch with Lidl customer services, whether this was passed to the specialised section to deal with parking issues, I am not sure, but this was their stance approximately 10 days ago, and this is before receipts were e-mailed to Athena;

 

 

We refer to your recent communication with us regarding the Parking Charge Notice you received.

As you are probably aware, Lidl UK GmbH is a national retailer. As such, we have stores in locations with limited parking space and in common with many of our competitors, our store car parks are abused to a significant and detrimental extent. We have therefore judged it necessary to take measures so that our stores parking facilities are available first and foremost to our customers.

In order to ensure that sufficient parking spaces are available at all times to our customers, Lidl employs third party contractors to monitor and control our car parks. So far, this service has proved reliable and effective in reducing car park abuse and in freeing up spaces for our customers. If you wish to contest a parking charge please contact the Car Parking Company direct. The address details will be found on the parking charge notice.

Legitimate appeals can only be submitted in writing. To aid your appeal please send copies of any supporting documentation you may have. Please note that we cannot cancel car parking charges on behalf of the Car Park Management Company as we would not comply with the regulations set out by the British Parking Association.

In closing, we hope that you can understand our position on this matter and that you will continue to be a valued Lidl customer.

Yours sincerely,

For and on behalf of Lidl UK GmbH

Basically the way I am reading it, is that they (Lidl) won't cancel the charges. I have made them aware that they have done so for other people from what I have read on other forum messages, and also the whole negative publicity they are creating for themselves with the general parking situation.

 

Again they are leading you on completely as that is a complete and utter lie, the is nothing in the BPA COP that says the Principal cant cancel invoices

[ericsbrother]

Do they mean that they have signed a contract that give the parking co rights that usurp their rights as the owner of the land? No, they are brushing you off by saying it is not their problem. Make it their problem by writing again with a copy to their German boss.

Also tell them that Aldi, Sainsburys and Morrisons manage to sort out unfairly ticketed customers' problems so you will be informing your 12000 facebook or twitter followers (doesnt everyone have at least that number?) of their follow up response letter with particular emphasis on their complete lack of knowledge of both their rights as a landlord and the wording in the BPA CoP.

[Charge fighter]

Lidl did come back to me a few days back, but it was an exact copy of the first reply that they wrote to me!! To say I was a very disappointed was an understatement, more so when they could see from my message that things had moved on from the initial query. There was some sarcasm in my reply!

 

 

I wrote straight back to them telling them this bog standard template reply was a very poor effort from their customer services, other people have had them intervene, and to my knowledge they could overrule if they chose to.

 

 

From the response I have had from Lidl's customer service so far, I don't think they seem to have the know how or skill to actually deal properly with some queries, just feel it is going nowhere. I could do with escalating this further up their business, will this information be available on the internet somewhere, they could also do with some negative publicity too if truth be told, this should have been put to bed already.

[esmerobbo]

Typical of most customer service departments, templated letters that have very little relevance to whatever you have asked or told them.

[Charge fighter]

Latest update, Lidl have come back to me, I get the opinion they have reviewed it this time, basic outcome is they have upheld the last charge amount £20, which Athena did offer previously with a pay by date which has now expired. In this last reply, Lidl have quoted;

 

 

'Please be advised that we have taken the time to carefully review this matter and we are unable to cancel the parking charge. The parking charge will be remain at £20 and Athena ANPR will request payment, in writing, in due course.'

I appreciate the help so far, but how do I get round this unwillingness to cancel the charge? I really have tried to appeal to their better nature.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Simply go back to Athena and demand the popla code,

 

I wouldnt worry to much about this bunch, they are the lap dogs of the ppc world, dont let it worry you