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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Can the good people of this forum please explain their understanding of the "foot in door" action that some bailiffs use in connection with Magistrates Court fines please?

 

Does it make a difference if the bailiff just stands there with his foot in the door refusing to remove it but going no further than the threshold or do folk believe it to be an illegal action regardless?

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Stamp on it. Hell soon move. Just kidding. Gotta be careful since its a court fine.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Thanks outlawla, very interesting reading. However, this is a guide provided by a bailiff company and as such a little bias. The sections you refer to relate to "peaceful entry" by the bailiff.

 

What if the bailiff uses this method as a means of continuing a verbal conversation with a debtor (who refuses to cooperate) after a conversation takes place about the money allegedly owed to the Crown?

 

If the bailiff places his foot in the doorway and refuses to remove it but goes no further than the threshold while continuing said attempts to remedy the situation on behalf of HRH, does he break any law where case law can be used to confirm said unlawful action?

 

:???:

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Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

That will waste them a few hours, however if they're court bailiffs the problem won't go away.

You will still need to pay the fine and costs unfortunately.

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Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

That will waste them a few hours, however if they're court bailiffs the problem won't go away.

You will still need to pay the fine and costs unfortunately.

 

And end up with a charge of false imprisonment????

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And end up with a charge of false imprisonment????

 


you are out and find strangers in your house and lock them in before calling the police.
I call this 'any person arrest' under PACE.
How would you know they're bailiffs?
You probably forgot the front door open and they entered without breaking in.
Then you saw them through the window and locked them in.
Police will have trouble ruling this version out.
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King, you just changed the scenaro. You said, and i quote:

 

Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

 

No. You have guests you allowed in then locked them in. That is false imprisonment.

 

You then change the topic to

 

you are out and find strangers in your house and lock them in before calling the police.

I call this 'any person arrest' under PACE.

How would you know they're bailiffsicon?

You probably forgot the front door open and they entered without breaking in.

Then you saw them through the window and locked them in.

Police will have trouble ruling this version out.

 

 

So you are willing to lie to the police and risk heavy penalties including substantial prison time.

 

 

I think its time you stopped posting as your attempt to justify what you are saying is falling flat. We have no doubt that you hate bailiffs with a passion, but stopping to their level NEVER works out. Play by the rules and dont give them a single inch to move and theyre easy to deal with.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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King, you just changed the scenaro. You said, and i quote:

 


 


 


No. You have guests you allowed in then locked them in. That is false imprisonment.


 


You then change the topic to


 


 


 


 


So you are willing to lie to the police and risk heavy penalties including substantial prison time.


 


 


I think its time you stopped posting as your attempt to justify what you are saying is falling flat. We have no doubt that you hate bailiffs with a passion, but stopping to their level NEVER works out. Play by the rules and dont give them a single inch to move and theyre easy to deal with.


 


It was a tongue in cheek email, but I see that it failed to come through as such.
Never had to deal with the lovely bailiffs myself, apart from when they knocked at my door to gain antry to my neighbour 's back garden.
I let you imagine my answer (little clue: starts with f and ands with u, followed by the common word starting with c)
If you read my entire post you would have seen that I said that if they are court bailiffs the problem won't go away, but it will just get bigger.
Anyway, excuse my intrusion in your personal blog
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I know it was a tongue in cheek, but unless you state that in your post ( like i did in mine), you run the risk of someone misinterpreting it and possibly trying it. Especially on a public open forum.

 

And less of the personal attacks. There is absolutely no need for it.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I know it was a tongue in cheek, but unless you state that in your post ( like i did in mine), you run the risk of someone misinterpreting it and possibly trying it. Especially on a public open forum.

 

And less of the personal attacks. There is absolutely no need for it.

 

How true, a little thought before posting especially when the comments come from one with no experience of a particular situation.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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isn't it a good idea to film the bailiff if they put a foot in the door. If you've asked them to remove it on camera and they refuse do they not as such leave you with the option of standing there forever or moving away allowing them in? Is this not then forced entry as you would be technically under duress? Or am I missing something?

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It is always a good idea to film a bailiff. Even if they are acting completely in line with all regulations. If they refuse to be filmed, or are aggressive, then you have to ask yourself why.

 

If they wont remove their foot from the door, iirc you can take reasonable force to remove them. What defines reasonable though is completely up for debate, as many rogue bailiffs will claim assault. Even if its a 90 year old frail woman who did it.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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It is always a good idea to film a bailiff. Even if they are acting completely in line with all regulations. If they refuse to be filmed, or are aggressive, then you have to ask yourself why.

 

If they wont remove their foot from the door, iirc you can take reasonable force to remove them. What defines reasonable though is completely up for debate, as many rogue bailiffs will claim assault. Even if its a 90 year old frail woman who did it.

 

Think R v Tucker 2012, mind you the bailiffs lost their cetrificates over that one, where a debtor was wrongfully convicted of assaulting two bailiffs who perjured themselves, and the conviction was overturned on appeal. The police came out of that one with discredit also

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I don't think king12345's advice was tongue in cheek just the usual drivel by somebody who knows nothing about the subject matter. And what is meant by court bailiff.?... Advice like this is dangerous and not up to the usual standard for posters on here.

 

I would remind anybody that a bailiff has a right to force entry once inside and that includes to get out. Kicking the door through will not please anybody.

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What I would add is that any type of Enforcement Agent should not use the foot in the door approach. Access should be peaceful at all times.

 

 

 

 

Just reading your post reminded me about a comical incident around in 2006 at Clerkenwell & Shoreditch County Court. At the time I was observing a Form 4 complaint with a client and her solicitor and we were really early and there was a steady stream of bailiffs arriving for either certification or renewals and one bailiff arrived on crutches with plaster on both his feet.

 

I would have loved to have been in court because the bailiff came out of the court and said that Judge Cothrane ( who I think has now retired) refused to grant him a renewal without knowing more about the incident that led to all his toes being broken.

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