Gross Misconduct

[notsowisemonkey]

Hi, just wondering if anyone can give us some information regarding this.

 

My son started work at a local company 7 months ago,

he was initially told he was on a one month trial then that was extended to three months then he was told he had the Job.

 

Everything has been going well,

its his first full time job since leaving uni

and he loved going to work,

loved the job and not had any problems until

 

a couple of days ago, the company had an internal auditor in and my son gave him the sheet to sign in and the internal questionnaire,

after the fellow left reception my son noticed he hadn't put hi name on the questionnaire

(he had put his name and signature on the first sheet but failed to do this on the questionnaire although he had filled in the tick boxes),

 

being a bit naïve my son printed the fellows name and put a squiggle where the mans signature should be,

he didn't attempt to copy the man original sig from the first sheet

- it was just a scribble as he thought he was doing no harm and was helping out.

 

An hour later the guy asked to see the paperwork and this is where it all kicked off,

 

he said that he didn't sign the secon sheet

- my son went to the bosses office and explained what had happened

and immediately he was told that there was only one route it could go and that was gross misconduct,

 

he was given the information in a letter the same day and was told the disciplinary would be the following day and the gross misconduct was for forgery??.

 

My son came home and honestly I have never seen him so upset,

its like the bottom has fallen out of his world,

he thought he was helping someone out and then all this kicks off,

 

immediately I said to my wife he is being railroaded (all seemed too quick).

 

He attended the disciplinary and told the truth but was told they couldn't make a decision

and he was suspended until the following day (Today) and he had to go back at 1pm

 

- he went in at 1pm and was told he was dismissed with immediate effect

but the manager who chaired the disciplinary came out after the meeting

and said he should appeal as he thought he should have been given a warning but not dismissed.

 

Any help regarding this is appreciated,

he doesn't really want to go back to work there now

he is thinking of going go back to uni

and study for a masters

but he wants the gross misconduct off his employment record,

 

what can he do?

 

Thanks,

[Emmzzi]

He needs to follow the advice given and appeal.

 

If he's going to survive in the world of work he also needs to start posting himself instead of having a parent do it for him...?

[notsowisemonkey]

He needs to follow the advice given and appeal.

 

If he's going to survive in the world of work he also needs to start posting himself instead of having a parent do it for him...?

 

He can survive in the world thank you but its been eating away at me, any more criticisms...????

[Emmzzi]

Observation is not the same as criticism.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I've unapproved some posts that do not contribute meaningfully to the thread.

[smokejumper]

Wow!

 

Come on guys, we all know stuff on the internet can get misunderstood and that people are also worried about their problems which makes them snappy.

 

We are all on here to ask and answer for help.

 

Lets play nicely ;-)

[Sidewinder]

I would encourage your son to appeal the dismissal. It may not do much good but it would at least allow another opportunity to explain his naivety and sincere belief that he was not doing wrong. That might allow a sympathetic ear to agree to provide a neutral reference if nothing else.

 

At the end of the day however, your son has justifiably (if harshly) been seen to having falsified a document, and by any token that would be grounds for summary dismissal and the employer would not be obliged to accept any request for leniency.

 

As for the comments regarding your son posting here, whilst we would all understand a parent's desire to look out for their offspring, I am sure that the comment was well intended. It is always difficult for us to get a full picture of what has happened if the information is going through a third party, and if it came down to an appeal hearing he would of course have to speak for himself at such a hearing, so it is always preferable to understand and interpret advice for himself.

[notsowisemonkey]

What I am finding frustrating is that I did this off my own back, my son can hold his own thank you, I did this post to get some advice just to let him know what he should do. you cannot be sure the comment was well intended unless you wrote it yourself.

I have already seen 2 posts on this thread deleted because they mention emmzzi and how she intentionally trys to flame people. whats good for the goose is good for the gander (delete her posts??).

Thanks for the advice.

[BazzaS]

What I am finding frustrating is that I did this off my own back, my son can hold his own thank you, I did this post to get some advice just to let him know what he should do. you cannot be sure the comment was well intended unless you wrote it yourself.

I have already seen 2 posts on this thread deleted because they mention emmzzi and how she intentionally trys to flame people. whats good for the goose is good for the gander (delete her posts??).

Thanks for the advice.

 

I haven't seen those posts, so can't comment on them.

I have seen loads of threads where Emmzzi has posted using their knowledge & experience, giving of their free time to help people.

 

Sometimes advice / observation gets seen as "flame" because people don't like the message. It doesn't mean the message is wrong.

 

By all means criticise the post / content, but to criticise the person you might also look at their site reputation / other contributions.

Quoting others accusations from posts that have been removed seems unfair to me .... How is anyone to judge unless we are told the basis for them?

Edited October 27, 2013 by BazzaS

[notsowisemonkey]

Quoting others accusations from posts that have been removed seems unfair to me .... How is anyone to judge unless we are told the basis for them?

 

I totally agree and I dont understand why the posts were removed they were merely "Observations"

[BazzaS]

I totally agree and I dont understand why the posts were removed they were merely "Observations"

 

Did they provide context to justify their observations?

If not, perhaps they were felt to be inappropriate?

[notsowisemonkey]

Did they provide context to justify their observations?

If not, perhaps they were felt to be inappropriate?

 

To be fair I dont want to play this game of ping pong but I will say emmzzi's observations were incorrect, he does survive in the real world, he is not a member on here, he doesn't ask for support, it was me that asked for advice, she does not know my son so her observations are not justified.

 

Thanks.

[BazzaS]

To be fair I dont want to play this game of ping pong

 

Immediately contradicted by the fact that you reply, of course.

You might consider it a game of ping pong.

I consider it me observing that your use of others posts accusing Emmzzi of "flaming " (that those other posts had then been deleted) wasn't "ping pong ", but unfairness.

 

If you are going to say "to be fair", then being fair would be a good starting point!

 

but I will say emmzzi's observations were incorrect, he does survive in the real world, he is not a member on here, he doesn't ask for support, it was me that asked for advice, she does not know my son so her observations are not justified.

 

Thanks.

[Sidewinder]

What I am finding frustrating is that I did this off my own back, my son can hold his own thank you, I did this post to get some advice just to let him know what he should do. you cannot be sure the comment was well intended unless you wrote it yourself.

I have already seen 2 posts on this thread deleted because they mention emmzzi and how she intentionally trys to flame people. whats good for the goose is good for the gander (delete her posts??).

Thanks for the advice.

 

Nobody is suggesting that your son cannot hold his own, and I did allude to the fact that it is natural for any parent to want to help their children in a difficult situation.

 

I do know that as with any long-term poster with a high reputation score, Emmzzi's advice is always well-intended. You may not appreciate the manner in which it is delivered sometimes, but this is the harsh world of the workplace and it is very often simpler to deal in straightforward facts delivered in a straightforward manner.

 

Any posts which were unapproved were removed as they added nothing to the case in point. Some were also, bizarrely, the first posts made by somebody, and were solely made to attack a respected member of the site.

 

However, returning to your OP, you said:-

 

he wants the gross misconduct off his employment record,

 

what can he do?[/Quote]

 

And you were advised that it may be best if he were to ask the questions and gain the knowledge for himself

 

Having been advised by a manager after the hearing that he should appeal, I think we all agree that he should do precisely this. The only way his record will be cleared is either to be reinstated on appeal, or by agreeing a neutral reference. He does not have the requisite two years service to take a case to a Tribunal, even if it appeared that the employer had acted incorrectly, and I do not believe that dismissal was an unreasonable sanction based on what you have told us. None of this will happen by itself but if we are to advise further or be in a position to help with an appeal, then believe me it is easier to get the facts, timescales, procedures used, policies etc from the horse's mouth.

[notsowisemonkey]

Nobody is suggesting that your son cannot hold his own, and I did allude to the fact that it is natural for any parent to want to help their children in a difficult situation.

 

I do know that as with any long-term poster with a high reputation score, Emmzzi's advice is always well-intended. You may not appreciate the manner in which it is delivered sometimes, but this is the harsh world of the workplace and it is very often simpler to deal in straightforward facts delivered in a straightforward manner.

 

Any posts which were unapproved were removed as they added nothing to the case in point. Some were also, bizarrely, the first posts made by somebody, and were solely made to attack a respected member of the site.

 

However, returning to your OP, you said:-

 

 

 

And you were advised that it may be best if he were to ask the questions and gain the knowledge for himself

 

Having been advised by a manager after the hearing that he should appeal, I think we all agree that he should do precisely this. The only way his record will be cleared is either to be reinstated on appeal, or by agreeing a neutral reference. He does not have the requisite two years service to take a case to a Tribunal, even if it appeared that the employer had acted incorrectly, and I do not believe that dismissal was an unreasonable sanction based on what you have told us. None of this will happen by itself but if we are to advise further or be in a position to help with an appeal, then believe me it is easier to get the facts, timescales, procedures used, policies etc from the horse's mouth.

 

Thank you.

[Sidewinder]

You are welcome. We sincerely hope that everything turns out well. Maybe not to be reinstated if that is not his wish, but as you say it is not nice to have a dismissal on record, and it does sound as though he may have some support from at least one member of the management. It may take a heartfelt appeal on the basis of misunderstanding and pure naivety about his actions, but stranger things have happened.

 

Whether studying or resuming employment, I wish your son well.

[notsowisemonkey]

Hi, just an update - he appealed and the Gross misconduct was dropped, thanks.

[Sidewinder]

That is good news. Thanks for the update.

[smokejumper]

Great news and well done to him for appealing and putting his side of the case over and making them understand.