VT'd car through welcome, they claimed damage, lowells claim form !!**TOMLIN**

[dx100uk]

don't think so.

 

debts are usually passed around and exchanged on a 'phishing' list

 

these list are bought and sold daily.

 

all the buyer gets is a line in a spreadsheet basically...

 

they then go...

 

oh look this ones worth £XXXX

 

we can make lots of easy money if we issue a claim form

and the debtor does not respond.

 

unlucky lowells...this one found CAG.

 

dx

[citizenB]

Am I correct in recalling somewhere it stated that if a debt has been sold on

or assigned to another dca they MUST have full documents regarding my account before taking legal action.

 

if they do not hold anything they are not allowed to then contact the original lender for these documents

as they should have been given at the time of assigning the debt to them ??

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

 

You should have been informed by either Welcome or Lowells that the account had been assigned/sold. In post 21, I have advised that you request a copy of the NoA in the CPR 31.14 !!

[swt61]

Hmm, rather disingenuous, if they have issued the claim, then they need the paperwork to back it up !!

Ok,

Issue date 14th October + 5 for service = 19 October + 14 days to acknowledge = 2nd November + 14 days to submit defence = 16 November.

 

 

 

 

IMHO, your defence should be along the line of - this is not a debt owed via the original agreement. Having VT'd the vehicle, Welcome have attempted to obtain money by saying there was damage to the vehicle when it fact the wear and tear is acceptable according to BVRLA Fair Wear & Tear guide on t'internet. [This is the voluntary code published by The British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association and allows everyone to know what to expect when returning a leased vehicle.]

 

When you asked for the copy of your agreement back in 2008/2009 (and they sent you someone else's) did you make that request via a proper CCA request that included the £1.00 statutory fee ?

 

You can mention that Welcome not only failed to comply with your s78 request, but sent you someone else's agreement (with their personal details on it).

 

You really must stay off the telephone. I doubt very much they will do anything about retrieving your Agreement until you make a proper request. I have linked you to the CPR 31.14 request that you need to send to the Solicitors.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

 

It needs reading carefully and amended where required. You need to send it Recorded delivery.

 

You can only ask for the following documents as these are mentioned in their claim.

 

1: the agreement

2: the default notice

3: the notice of assignment

4: statement of account showing how the balance claimed has accrued.

 

Do you have a copy of the RAC report and the photographs of the stone chip damage ? ?

 

 

that's fab thank you !!

 

I do have a copy of the RAC report and it lists the damages on the rear of the form but on the front is car diagrams to mark the faults nothing marked on them anywhere,

I have a recorded delivery slip posted on the 24/11/2008 when I sent my VT request and I have a copy of the letter which is dated 22/11/2008 for my termination. I only have a letter that I just faxed asking for my CCA. Unfortunately I do not have anymore photos of the detail on the stone chips only the general pics of the car prior to uplift as I lost a lot of stuff on an old pc that died.

[swt61]

don't think so.

 

debts are usually passed around and exchanged on a 'phishing' list

 

these list are bought and sold daily.

 

all the buyer gets is a line in a spreadsheet basically...

 

they then go...

 

oh look this ones worth £XXXX

 

we can make lots of easy money if we issue a claim form

and the debtor does not respond.

 

unlucky lowells...this one found CAG.

 

dx

 

thanks mate I hope so !!

[swt61]

Just donated to this fab site too

[citizenB]

That is very kind of you, thank you

 

I think your plan of action at the moment is to send off the CPR so that you can obtain information from the Claim form. Lets see what they produce, if anything.

 

Make sure you acknowledge by the date I gave you earlier in the thread.

[swt61]

That is very kind of you, thank you

 

I think your plan of action at the moment is to send off the CPR so that you can obtain information from the Claim form. Lets see what they produce, if anything.

 

Make sure you acknowledge by the date I gave you earlier in the thread.

 

 

Hi,

CPR typed up going recorded delivery today

 

Defence going off online too

[swt61]

CPR Applied for and acknowledgement of service done online on Friday I also ticked the box that I am questioning the courts jurisdiction,

 

Si

[citizenB]

You don't have to question the court's jurisdiction - if they proceed with the claim it will automatically be allocated to your local court.

[swt61]

ok an update for you all nothing received yet from the solicitors and my letter requesting the CPR was received by them on the 28/10/13.

 

Nothing from them at all except a telephone automated message requesting me to contact BW Legal.

 

have to go online now to file my defence,

 

what you all think now ?

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[swt61]

Hi, still no letter or documentation of BW Legal should I return there phone call ?

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[citizenB]

Simon,

 

Just received your S.O.S to proof read your defence.. where is it

[swt61]

just sent mate by pm

thank you ))))

[Peterbard]

HI

Just reading through the thread.

Just a few points which you have probably considered.

 

There will be no default notice as the car was returned under section 99 of the act and the agreement was terminated by the debtor.

 

The section they will be using to claim for the damage will be section 100(4).

this states only that "reasonable care must be taken of the goods".

 

This means that a second hand vehicle would only have to be maintained in approximately the same condition plus additional fair ware and tear.

In other words the car would not have been in pristine condition in the first place,

whatever is mentioned in the fair ware and tear guide has to be seen in context, that any damage may well have been on the vehicle in the first place.

 

The court would have to consider if it would be reasonable to assume that there would have been a certain amount of damage due to the usage before the OP obtained the vehicle.

[swt61]

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread and respond

 

I have my defence written up ready to send 2mrw but am worried I have omitted something (

[Peterbard]

I am a little confused about their POC, they say that you had sums due under the contract.

 

Had you paid one half of the contract price when you VT'd ?

[swt61]

yes when I originally contacted them to see if I was in a position to VT they confirmed yes I was as I had already paid half

[Peterbard]

yes when I originally contacted them to see if I was in a position to VT they confirmed yes I was as I had already paid half

 

Then if you returned the car before the next payment as due you would have owed no contractual payments. The sums due under section 100 (condition)are post termination charges. Also they say they issued a default notice, why ? if the car was VT'd there would be no need for a default notice.

 

Before they commenced action for the damages they should have produced a letter before action to comply with pre action protocols but that is all. They are making it sound as if they terminated the agreement for arrears, which from what I understand is not the case, you terminated the agreement as was your right under section 99 of the act.

[swt61]

Then if you returned the car before the next payment as due you would have owed no contractual payments. The sums due under section 100 (condition)are post termination charges. Also they say they issued a default notice, why ? if the car was VT'd there would be no need for a default notice.

 

Before they commenced action for the damages they should have produced a letter before action to comply with pre action protocols but that is all. They are making it sound as if they terminated the agreement for arrears, which from what I understand is not the case, you terminated the agreement as was your right under section 99 of the act.

No I terminated the agreement as I could not afford anymore repayments they never sent me a default notice and no default was ever registered on my credit file.

surley if I owed money under my agreement they would have not allowed me to or accepted my VT request ?

 

the only thing they used to chase me for until 2009 was the make good costs but now the amount seems to have escalated.

 

This is really giving me sleepless nights now (

 

PM sent

[dx100uk]

eh! dodge

 

welcome []

 

to the great wide world of Welcome Finance.

 

never ever believe anything they write say or claim.

 

a good read of msgs from an old CAG member called postggj would be an idea.

 

great to have your expert eye on-board with these people

 

dx

[Peterbard]

It is getting late ow and I am tired but if this is the case I would simplay say that .

 

 

You deny that any contractual payment were due, as the agreement was terminated under section 99 of the consumer credit act and all the requirements under section 100 were met. In that over one half of the total sums due under the agreement had been paid and there were no arrears of installments when the contract was terminated and the car returned.

 

The disputed amount is for the post contractual charge which the claimant maintains represents damage incurred to the vehicle whilst on hire.

 

Section 100(4) of the act says only that reasonable care should be take on the goods under a hire purchase scheme.

The damage to the vehicle on surrender was consistent with a car of its age and it must also be considered that the car had defects when the debtor took possession of it.

[swt61]

:-)Dodge , many thanks mate for your advice

 

I really appreciate it a lot

 

Simon

[Peterbard]

eh! dodge

 

welcome []

 

to the great wide world of Welcome Finance.

 

never ever believe anything they write say or claim.

 

a good read of msgs from an old CAG member called postggj would be an idea.

 

great to have your expert eye on-board with these people

 

dx

 

Ye sorry I saw this thread so late, have to go to be now my eyes are going, must not let them get away with this on VTs many are in similar positions, I will look in in the morning.

 

SW get a good night sleep and forget all about it, it will be sorted, tomorrow is another day.

[swt61]

here is my nightmare thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?406921-VT-d-my-ca-through-welcome-they-claimed-damage-refused-to-pay-now-lowells-claim-form-!!

[swt61]

Hi All, this is the letter I am about to file today as my defence any feedback very much appreciated.

 

"

This is not a debt owed via the original agreement.

 

Having voluntary terminated the vehicle, Welcome have attempted to obtain money by saying there was damage (make good costs) to the vehicle when it fact the wear and tear is acceptable according to BVRLA Fair Wear and Tear guide on the internet.

 

On the 22.11.2008 I contacted welcome finance requesting a voluntary termination of my hire purchase agreement under section 99 of the CCA1974.

 

I received a telephone call from the Cardiff office a few days later asking if I really wanted to go ahead with this termination, they tried everything to get me to extend the loan and reduce the payments, which Irefused as I was not in a position to keep the vehicle. They then advised they would arrange an RAC inspection prior to uplift and was I really sure I wanted to go ahead as they would charge me for any scratches or damage. I informed them the vehicle had stone chips on it when I bought it as it had covered over 85,000 miles and they never wanted an RAC inspection before they financed it, they commented that it’s not a requirement of their lending.

 

On the 24.11.13 I sent a S78 requesting a copy of my original agreement and to my amazement I received someone else’s credit agreement with all of their financial details on it, this was clearly addressed to me (I have proof of this). I immediately called Welcome informing them of this, they panicked and asked could I please return it as they didn’t want to breach data protection.

 

A week or so later they eventually sent mine but no communication regarding the make good costs.

 

On the 08.12.2008 I received a letter stating further to my telephone conversation they would arrange an RAC inspection of the vehicle.

 

The RAC inspected the vehicle at my home on the 15.12.2008. After inspection the inspector asked me to sign for the so called damages which I refused as I did not accept the car required any make good costs. The scratch to the rear of the vehicle was there prior to my ownership of thevehicle and to be honest I never did anything with it as it was hardlynoticeable and did not justify the cost to repair. I immediately contacted Welcome advising them how annoyed I was with this unfair inspection and I would not be paying for any make good costs and would be taking the car for an independent vehicle inspection myself. This was carried out on 16.12.2008 and was confirmed the stone chips were indeed fair wear and tear for a vehicle with 113,516 miles (I have a copy of the letter). I contacted Welcome again on the 16.12.2008 as I needed them to confirm a date for the uplift of the vehicle, they advised it may take a further 2 weeks and in the meantime I needed to keep paying.

 

I informed them the vehicle had been Voluntary terminated and they had accepted my termination. I sent a fax to the local office ( I have a copy) asking them if I could drop the vehicle off at their local office as I was concerned because we were away for a few days the following week and would not be able to keep an eye on the vehicle. The vehicle was collected by an Auction house a couple of weeks later.

 

Welcome contacted me by telephone advising I had an outstanding amount of £746.58 which were the make good costs for the vehicle, I explained to them again I would not be bullied into paying something that is not legally due, they accepted my voluntary termination as they had previously confirmed I had paid enough on my HP agreement. .

 

Up to Feb 2009 Welcome would regularly call me trying to get me to agree to pay this cost or set up a repayment plan which I refused yet again. The lady said that each time they called me they would charge me for telephone calls until this debt has been paid for. I repeatedly informed them yet again that the vehicle had been voluntary terminated and they agreed I had paid enough to go ahead with it and I would not be bullied into repaying a debt for damages and charges for phone calls as these were unlawful charges.

 

A debt collection agency contacted me in December 2009 and after discussing this and giving them the true facts they emailed me to say that I should discuss with Welcome as they were passing it back to them (I have the email).

 

Now in 2013 I have received constant harassment by telephone at home and on my mobile from a company called BW legal. I completely ignored their initial telephone messages to contact them regarding a debt as I owe them nothing. I cannot believe that nearly 5 years since my voluntary termination this unfair debt is constantly being sold around and it has now escalated to £1565.26, this is unbelievable. Once I received a court claim from Northamptonbulk centre I immediately contacted BW legal to discuss the matter and asked if they knew what this so called claim was for. They had no real information apart from it being money owed under a HP agreement for a vehicle with DVS vehicle solutions.I informed them I had no agreement with DVS as they were the car dealership and the lady responded by saying, oh no sorry it’s Welcome Finance. I gave them the full facts regarding this and they said they would have to go back to their client as they had no information regarding the account. I immediatelycalled Welcome Finance asking what they were doing as this was not part of my original agreement and if I owed them any monies then why had they not chased me and sent me statements to show this so called debt. The response I received was we don’t have to send statements and we cannot discuss further as the debt has been sold on and you must discuss with them.

 

I sent a CPR 31.14 request by recorded delivery on the 25.10.13 which was received and signed for by BW legal on 28.10.13, they have still not responded to in any way to this request. The 7 days to respond have elapsed, I offered them more time should they request it. Todate I have not received any letter acknowledging my request or a request for a n extension to allow them more time.

 

Today 11.11.13 I received an automated message fromBW legal to contact them, I called them back and asked why they had called me,the lady said she would see what it’s in relation too. I informed her I had made a CPR request she confirmed oh yes we are still waiting for documentation from our client.

 

How come this is now their client when Welcome says it’s nothing to do with them?

 

I have always paid my way and acknowledge my debts but I refuse to pay something for which I am not liable for. When the vehicle was voluntary terminated it had done 113,516 miles, surely any vehicle which has covered this sort of mileage, a certain amount of wear and tear is expected.

 

I am very disappointed that a debt collection agency has registered a speculative court claim obviously without actually seeing this has nothing to do with the original H.P Agreement and what’s more distressful is that I am not allowed to receive a CCJ in my current position at work. "

Edited November 12, 2013 by citizenB
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