guarantor - got CCJ by default - HELP

[Mike_hawk]

thats correct, but they went and ask for further extension of stay. the no. i called was 03001232040. dont you think sar to the bank might to long to reply, what if the court hearing takes place any earlier. many thanx for help

 

I think you need to gather as much info as possible, assuming it applied for relief to progress the case at the end of the month its unlikely a hearing date would be set prior to November... ample time for it to comply with a sar (if served now).

 

Has it disclosed where the pg was signed (on or off bank premises) or the identity of the bank employee who processed the application/pg? The answers may enable you (and the court) to establish the credibility of the banks position and any possible hostile witnesses it presents.

[gupta]

when they sent me the guarantor ducument it looks as it was done at the bank premises, i did mention the id and possible cctv, but didnt reply, but if you think i should ask for sar.will i have to ask the shakespears for that.

[Mike_hawk]

Sar goes to the bank, send recorded delivery with the stat £10.00 fee

 

You could draft a letter to shakespears requesting it now provides you with a copy of the banks investigating office findings. Can't imagine it will respond but it may prove useful to have a written record of the request.

 

I assume you have an idea of which individual completed the pg with your details? Have you considered filing an application to join him/her as defendant?

 

The problem you face is that the bank will keep plodding along, it really has no intention of admitting something could be amiss as it could high lite its lack of diligence.

[gupta]

ok mike, i will send a sar to the bank [ the temple plate above] ill copy it and posted on monday. i have already send an email but not had any reply from the shakespear. i dont quite understand what you mean by individual pg and filling an application to join as defendant.

[Mike_hawk]

The o/d facility would have been requested by an agent [individual] of the business. At some point the bank would presumably have insisted on security by way of a personal guarantee.

 

Do you know the name of the o/d applicant, have you discussed the matter with him/her?

 

You can apply to the court to join a party [the individual you believe may have 'borrowed' your details for the pg] as defendant, its also possible to be granted relief to indemnity within the application should it be found that s/he were responsible.

[gupta]

does that mean i do not need to write or send any letters to the claiment, and tell the court it could be one of the family member and procedings will be againest the member of the family and i will be free i presume.

[Mike_hawk]

does that mean i do not need to write or send any letters to the claiment, and tell the court it could be one of the family member and procedings will be againest the member of the family and i will be free i presume.

 

You'd need to be very sure of your position and the actions of the individual prior to making application but yes you could make a part 23 application to join an individual in the case.

 

The effect would be for you to counterclaim against him/her as a defendant

 

The following link should assist http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20

 

You should however consider your exposure to costs if you join an innocent party to the case.

[gupta]

ok what il do tomorrow, ask for sar with 10.00 cheque [dont know who to make payable] and post it tohe bank , iv already written a letter to shakespear solicitors asking for full investigation report. iv also asked to family members and they no nothing about it.

[Mike_hawk]

ok what il do tomorrow, ask for sar with 10.00 cheque [dont know who to make payable] and post it tohe bank , iv already written a letter to shakespear solicitors asking for full investigation report. iv also asked to family members and they no nothing about it.

 

Cheque should be made payable to National Westminster Bank PLC

 

Address below:

 

 

Registration Number: Z4936258

Date Registered: 06 October 2000 Registration Expires: 05 October 2014

Data Controller: NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC

Address:

135 BISHOPSGATE

LONDON

EC2M 3UR

 

[gupta]

thanx mike, iv posted the letter this morning before i saw your reply. i left the payee blank, and the address which you have posted is different from the one on the letter from the natwest bank. what do i do post another one do you think. many thanx.

[Mike_hawk]

Should be fine so long as the address was an office of the bank. As for the blank payee details, you would think it should prompt a response.......... RBS group doesn't need much an excuse to delay complying.

 

Which address did you send it to? I may a a direct dial number for it.

[gupta]

this is the address i posted to customer complaints centre ,

corporate bank division

1st floor. ten brindleyplace

birmingham

b1 2tz

[Mike_hawk]

Ah...... it'll probably be ignored at that address. CMS relocated to the same office and it doesn't tend to respond or pass any data requests forward which have the potential for damage to the business.

 

Perhaps sending again to Bishopsgate would be sensible given your circumstances

[gupta]

thanx m8. ill send it to the address youv said. thanx again

[gupta]

ok m8 iv posted, i will let you know how its going.

[The Mould]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Cha2/29/3/section/IV

Gupta, if questioned signature is not yours, then above statute (statute of Frauds 1677) is your complete defence against this matter. The burden of proving that said suspect signature is not on your shoulders but upon the Claimant's shoulders.

Kind regards

The Mould

[gupta]

absalutely right the mould. but the claiment doesnt think its somebody elses , they think its mine . the judge did say get the ink expert to look at the signature. but im getting all the evidence together if i have to appear in court again.

[The Mould]

absalutely right the mould. but the claiment doesnt think its somebody elses , they think its mine . the judge did say get the ink expert to look at the signature. but im getting all the evidence together if i have to appear in court again.

 

OK, the burden is on the Claimant in any action (save, defamation claims, where the defamatory remarks or statement complained of is on the Defendant to such to prove that the statement(s) were true). In this present case, the burden of proof is on the Claimant and he must prove that the questioned signature on the personal guarantee is yours.

 

In your Defence, if you have the means to instruct a forensic document examiner, then I would advise you to do so. 12 of your original signatures will be required as a minimum, the costs to you would be around the £1,400 to £1,600 mark. These costs can be recovered upon you succeeding with your Defence (dependent upon your conduct throughout this matter).

 

Look up/research - forensic document examiners, the country's leading expert in this field is Dr Giles, however, she does not accept instructions direct from persons acting in person, therefore, look up Forensic Document Services, they accept instructions direct.

 

Notwithstanding that the burden of proof is on the Claimant, you will still be required to defeat and undermine this claim with tangible evidence upon which the Court can rely. A simple bare denial of any allegations in any event will never suffice, you need to deny the allegation, state your reason(s) for denial and make reference to the evidence that substantiates your case - your side of this argument.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[gupta]

so you think i should just sit back and wait and see what they do.

[The Mould]

thanx for that m8.its says and upon the court being satisfied the application to set the judgment aside was madepromptly and it appears the defendant may have reasonableprospect of succesfully defending the case. it is orderedthat.1 the jugement against myself be and is hereby set aside.2 the interim charging order be discharged. 3 the case be stayed for 8 weeks to allow the claimant to investigate the defendants claim the signeture on guarantor is not his.

4the claimants solicitors to notify the court not more then 7 daysafter the expiry of the stayperiod the outcome of the stay.

 

The above is the Court Order.

 

Para 4 is where the Claimant's sols are to notify the Court not more than 7 days after the expiry of the stay period of the outcome of the stay. The claimant's sols have already stated to you that their client does not accept that the questioned signature is not yours!

 

I would advise you to obtain expert opinion from a forensic document examiner on your signature (12 original required) for comparison against the questioned signature on the Guarantee Agreement. Be proactive.

 

You must have some idea of which of your family members/relatives opened this account, yes or no? There lies the answer to this matter.

 

If I was in your position, I would obtain the requisite expert opinion in this matter and shove the same down my family member's throat who stitched me up!

 

Then I would go back to the Court (after the stay), present my expert evidence which substantiates my Defence and respectfully request that claim is struck out and seek my costs. The relative in question would never receive any forgiveness from me, I would dis associate myself with them and never talk to them again!

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[gupta]

but it is not my reposibility is it to get forensic expert as the judge already said the claiment has to prove that is not my signature.

[Mike_hawk]

but it is not my reposibility is it to get forensic expert as the judge already said the claiment has to prove that is not my signature.

 

 

Gupta

 

I believe you meant to say the claimant had to prove that it 'is' your signature

 

Not much you can do at the moment except gather as much information as possible to counter any possible application by the bank.

 

Expert witness...... you'd need to apply for permission to engage, considering the expense I think I'd wait on the other side to act and cross apply if necessary. See CPR 35 for info http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part35#IDA2MICC

 

I'd agree with the mould....... it seems nonsensical for someone in your family linked to the business not to have been aware of the pg issue. Did you already have a relationship with the bank prior to your personal data being abused?

[gupta]

no i didnt have any relation with the bank. i dont even have a bank account with them.

[The Mould]

no i didnt have any relation with the bank. i dont even have a bank account with them.

 

Then do nothing and await further directions from the Court pending para 4 of Order that requires the Claimant's sols to action.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/265.html

Recent COA case concerning Statute of Frauds 1677 - Guarantee Agreements.

Kind regards

The Mould