It's only about how the reader takes the email ?

[renegadeimp]

Keep the friendship on a professional level. That way, neither of you can be accused of anything.

[Emmzzi]

But also some of the HR stuff is really quite feminist.

 

 

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

The days of the controlling patriarchy are ending. Get over it.

[Pin Stripe]

Keep the friendship on a professional level. That way, neither of you can be accused of anything.

 

I'm not going to chat with her anymore. We work close by, but don't deal with one another work-wise.

 

This is more about whether any good can come out of this frustrating situation. Is there a culture of encouraging people to go to HR, when it might in cases like this be better to encourage people to set their own boundaries ?

 

Pin Stripe

[Emmzzi]

This is more about whether any good can come out of this frustrating situation. Is there a culture of encouraging people to go to HR, when it might in cases like this be better to encourage people to set their own boundaries ?

 

One thing we feminists get really tired of is having the same conversation over and over again when the internet is there to help. A reasonable person will take the trouble to educate themselves.

 

May I suggest you google "male privilege" for why your minor inconvenience and dented ego in this is really not the issue?

[Pin Stripe]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

The days of the controlling patriarchy are ending. Get over it.

 

Yes, point taken Emmzzi, feminism is for the equality of women with men, a good thing, I was using the term wrongly, as it is sometimes mis-used. I meant 'some of the HR stuff appeared to me to be sexist biased towards women (not feminist)'

 

You're right to pull me up on this. You're not correct in implying I want to see a continuation of the 'controlling patriarchy'.

[Pin Stripe]

One thing we feminists get really tired of ...

May I suggest you google "male privilege" for why your minor inconvenience and dented ego in this is really not the issue?

 

I think this is sexist Emmzzi. Not meaning to be unkind.

[Emmzzi]

Yes, point taken Emmzzi, feminism is for the equality of women with men, a good thing, I was using the term wrongly, as it is sometimes mis-used. I meant 'some of the HR stuff appeared to me to be sexist biased towards women (not feminist)'

 

You're right to pull me up on this. You're not correct in implying I want to see a continuation of the 'controlling patriarchy'.

 

But your reply suggests you don't want to stop doing things unless they meet the bar for the legal definition of harrassment in the UK. Otherwise OMG WE ARE OPPRESSING YOU! Whereas what has actually happened, is someone has had a friendly word to say "you're making her uncomfortable, could you stop?" I mean jees, what would you have been happy with? A formal complaint? seeing the whites of her eyes while she explained exactly how you were creeping her out? What? Do you WANT a full investigation? Is it neccessary in order to change the situation? Or is that actually all about you and your needs?

 

So, yeah. Your stated intention doesn't match at all what you are saying. What is so very difficult about actually modifying your behaviour, to make other people feel comfortable? Why is this a huge political issue? Why is the organisation now conspiring against men because someone had a quiet word designed to help you?

 

Let's get some perspective. You did a thing which made someone feel bad. Someone who, by virtue of their gender (and possibly place in the hierarchy, you didn't answer that one), feels uncomfortable. You were asked to stop.

 

Can this not just be an end to it that you learn from and move on? Or do we actually have to go through the whole checklist of why women are less comfortable than men in everyday life?

 

(Do you check if its dark before crossing the carpark and feel uncomfortable? On what scale do you measure your discomfort? Do people think you are stupid if you are less attractive? and so on and on and on... you can find big lists on the internet!)

[Emmzzi]

I think this is sexist Emmzzi. Not meaning to be unkind.

 

Which is why you don't and won't and get this.

 

Happy to talk more if you are willing to educate yourself. Until then it's just my head and the wall!

[smokejumper]

Not saying the email was wrong, it's just as I said, once on paper it looks a 100 times worse.

 

It's so easy to fall into discipline situations and imho they seem to be more common, the days of nipping it in the bud are gone, alot of managers are very nervous and follow things up to pass the burden on and get it off their back.

 

I used to use facebook but gave that up, research all the threads on that one and see the problems it has caused, again on paper looks worse.

 

I personally would just keep to work matters and not engage with her otherwise. Another crazy thing at my workplace you can get disciplined for ignoring someone ( used to be know as " sending to coventry" ).

 

I agree with you and really can't see the problem with the email pics, it's not as if they were naked, but then what do I know, I'm always in trouble.

 

Try and forget it and just do the work they want you to do, I'm sure you have enough friends outside the job, therefore don't need the false workplace friends.

[Pusillanimous]

It does not just apply to men. Yes, the days when you could send hilarious innocent emails to each other were great. These days, you have to remember Big Brother is reading all your messages. Your friend is probably worried about who is reading it and perhaps getting into trouble for exchanging "inappropriate" emails, rather than anything personal towards you.

 

It was a bit rotten for her to complain to HR, when she could have just told you.

[Emmzzi]

It does not just apply to men. Yes, the days when you could send hilarious innocent emails to each other were great. These days, you have to remember Big Brother is reading all your messages. Your friend is probably worried about who is reading it and perhaps getting into trouble for exchanging "inappropriate" emails, rather than anything personal towards you.

 

It was a bit rotten for her to complain to HR, when she could have just told you.

 

I don't agree that the days of sending "hilarious" emails to each other were great. My inbox generally had racist sexist rubbish on circular emails. I'm glad it has stopped and I no longer have to deal with Bernard Manning style "comedy".

 

Why, I wonder, did she feel unable to approach OP directly when they were such good friends? "Bit rotten?" Don't think so. And I would be wary of assigning motives to someone you have never met.

 

But then, thinking you know how women probably feel, is a very common thing....

[Pusillanimous]

The one with the stressed out cat was good. Em, chill out!

[Emmzzi]

The one with the stressed out cat was good. Em, chill out!

 

A thing men say to reduce any point a woman has to make to "she's emotional." Saves actually listening and thinking about it.

[Sidewinder]

Some valid points made above but this thread appears to have run its course, so I will close it.

 

Pin Stripe - I am pleased that this does not look to have caused some of the more serious repercussions that it could have done, and I think you have learned some lessons. Feel free to come back if you need any further advice.