Devere Parking and lapsed blue badge

[Scouse Magic]

Ok good luck

Edited August 18, 2013 by Scouse Magic

[ericsbrother]

 

 

 

 

 

A third party has any right I grant them to act in my place, the official term is my 'agent'.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Not so, you cannot give a third party the right to create a UNILATERAL contract that offers nothing. You cannot contract a third party to break the law

[Liverpool way]

Having read this thread with interest I do feel that the Caggers on here have been quite consistent and correct with the advice given, however, I do find the original poster quite inconsistent.......................................................................:?:

[batman1956]

Troll???

[Liverpool way]

Troll???

 

The following is an excerpt of a current job vacancy for a Parking Eye enforcement officer, Thank you to Scouse Magic for the useful post on

Re: Morrisons, PE, and The Equality Act.

 

Main Duities......

 

*Finding potential candidates for ‘further action’ by analysing a number of key websites/forums and the information they provide.

 

 

Enough said............

[parkstoneboy]

The OP does appear to have been inconsistent however the details as per post 7 do ring true in that Devere take their time and I fully believe that the OP would not have received a reminder 'around' the 13th July as Devere have form for saying they sent reminders which were not received.

 

There would be one way for the OP to verify if the 'reminder' wasn't sent around that date and that would be to check with DVLA to find out the date of the request from Devere ref the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. I wouldn't be totally surprised if Devere didn't allow his targets plenty of time to have a/ failed to pay against the 'ticket' and b/ failed to have paid within a month or so of the non-existent reminder before investing £2.50 plus postage to get the RK details.

 

Full marks to whoever at Castlepoint security spotted the fact that the blue badge was out of date, could they have also spotted that the vehicle was tax exempt ?

 

There was a story in the Bournemouth Echo relating to an expired blue badge when Devere generously waived their 'fine' and just went for an admin fee of £10. So it easy enough for it to happen but it shouldn't be something that benefits Devere Parking Services Ltd Search the Bournemouth Echo site under blue badge renewal Castlepoint

 

If you go to Castlepoint's website and go to a section regarding customers with access needs you will see a link to AccessDorset and who should be one of the business sponsors of AccessDorset but....Castlepoint

 

I'm not sure where the OP is going by visiting the maildrop address for Devere and offering to pay and their thoughts on the 'contract'. This is after stating in Post 1 that they were not going to pay.

 

Whilst the OP needs to be prepared for Devere issuing court proceedings, Castlepoint and Devere need to be blown out of the water on the Disability aspect before it gets to that stage

 

Peter Matthews is on the website as being the General Manager of Castlepoint.

 

As their seems to be a credibility issue, perhaps the OP could post up redacted details of the original ticket and the final reminder.

 

They would be useful to see anyway.

 

I wouldn't be worried over the spelling of Steven or Stephen Williams, I don't believe either actually exists. It is just a name Devere uses.

[Kimdino]

Original ticket, reproduced as close as practicable, reads:

 

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE

Breach of Car Park Terms and Conditions

Serial No DPS *****

 

At

Location Castlepoint

Vehicle Registration Number **** *** Seen By (attendant)

Make *********** Model ********* Colour ****

I breach of the Terms and Condtions as indicated (see overleaf for details) 1B

Any observations by attendant

 

Any driver not adhering to the Parking Terms and Conditions in this car park is deemed to have entered into a contract to accept and pay a Parking Charge Notice.

The Parking Charge Notice has been issued for that breach. We act for and on behalf of the Landowner.

The driver shall be liable for payment. The sum of £100 is now due.

If you pay within 14days from the date of the issue of the Notice the reduced sum of £60 will be accepted in full and final settlement.

 

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THIS SUM IS NOW DUE

[Kimdino]

Final demand reads:

 

Notice of Intended Court Proceedings/Final Reminder

 

NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT PROCEEDINGS

Mr **** *****

TAKE NOTICE THAT ACCORDING TO OUR RECORDS THE SUM OF £100 IS OVERDUE FOR PAYMENT. IF YOU HAVE PAID THIS THEN YOU MUST CONTACT US.

1. Parking Charge notice issued on 27 May 2013

2. No response

3. Payment Reminder sent 13 July 3013

3. No response

 

UNLESS YOUR PAYMENT IS RECEIVED TO THE ABOVE ADDRESS WITHIN 7 DAYS FROM THE DATE BELOW, LEGAL PROCEEDINGS IN THE SMALL CLAIMS COURT TO RECOVER THE MONEY WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU WITHOUT FURTHER NOTIFICATION. THIS WILL INCLUDE COURT FEES AND EXTRA ADMIN FEES A TOTAL OF £75.

 

Signed

Name S. Williams Date 9 Aug 2013

 

Location: Castlepoint

Vehicle: **** ***

PCN No. *****

Breach Date: 27 May 2013

Breach: Parking in a disabled bay. Expired Blue Badge displayed

 

Telephone calls may be recorded etc.....

Representations or challenges in writing within next 7 days. normal tariff rates apply. If you have sold, hired or were not the driver of this vehicle you must tell us immediately. Please inform us of the name and address of the driver if it was not you.

Cheques ... to .. . etc

[parkstoneboy]

On the original ticket is there any mention of appealing etc ?

 

What has happened here is a classic Devere set-up/sting

 

End of May - windscreen ticket

Driver ignores, As no reminder is actually sent, nothing further until....

9th August ( what a surprise, it's a Friday ) and just because the final reminder was dated on Friday 9th August, doesn't mean it was posted on the 9th. Payment due within 7 days from the 9th.

 

All of a sudden the OP needs to do something in a hurry as Devere won't hang about issuing court papers.

 

Could the OP advise

1/ Date of postmark on envelope

2/ Date received

[Kimdino]

If the inconsistency mentioned by several people is concerning my visit to DeVeres 'office'. Isn't vaccillation, though annoying, reasonable behaviour? Or perhaps there is some other reason? I will happily explain in detail, in private, to anyone who I can feel safely is not acting for DeVere (dx100, parkstoneboy).

 

As for spotting the vehicle being tax exempt, in the circumstance there was a good chance that they saw an obviously disabled person leaving the car. There is an obvious contradiction of Castlepoints managers public statements concerning disabled parking, thus an obvious aim to screw what they can out of anyone. This is why DeVere have got me so annoyed on this one, I am not going to let them screw me over without a fight.

 

Re> asking the DVLA about the request from DeVere - I didn't know you could do this?

 

I am wondering about writing a letter to the Castlepoint manager, copied to the Asda, B&Q and various other centre shops, describing how much business they will be losing by me and freinds boycotting the centre unless the vultures are called off. Do you think this may be a good idea?

Edited August 18, 2013 by Kimdino

[Kimdino]

Date on envelope = 09/08/2013

Cannot remember date received.

[parkstoneboy]

Date on envelope = 09/08/2013

Cannot remember date received.

 

First or second class postage ? Franking stamp on enevelope to say where it was posted from ?

[Kimdino]

1st class ???, Proper stamp, not franking machine.

Franking is SW Hants ??? Hmmmm. Bournemouth is close to the Hampshire border. Can we assume Stephen Williams lives in the Ringwood or Christchurch area, for what that's worth.

[parkstoneboy]

Original ticket, reproduced as close as practicable, reads:

 

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE

Breach of Car Park Terms and Conditions

Serial No DPS *****

 

At

Location Castlepoint

Vehicle Registration Number **** *** Seen By (attendant)

Make *********** Model ********* Colour ****

I breach of the Terms and Condtions as indicated (see overleaf for details) 1B

Any observations by attendant

 

Any driver not adhering to the Parking Terms and Conditions in this car park is deemed to have entered into a contract to accept and pay a Parking Charge Notice.

The Parking Charge Notice has been issued for that breach. We act for and on behalf of the Landowner.

The driver shall be liable for payment. The sum of £100 is now due.

If you pay within 14days from the date of the issue of the Notice the reduced sum of £60 will be accepted in full and final settlement.

 

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THIS SUM IS NOW DUE

 

Does the actual ticket comply with section 29 of BPA on the attached link ? I can spot one breach

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2012_v2_March2013.pdf

 

Are there any references on the ticket about appealing or to POFA ( Protection of Freedom Act ) or POPLA ?

 

Have a look at Page 21, Notice to Owner/Keeper. In relation to the final reminder there is at least one other breach there. As you have made no responses to Devere, theoretically, they can only assume you are the Registered Keeper from the details they obtained from DVLA. In reality they will either have a record of what you look like or a photograph.

 

While you are at it post up the payment details, location and contact details. As Devere's web site seems to be out of action it would be useful to have up to date knowledge/confirmation.

[parkstoneboy]

Ref the Disability aspect, this from a very well respected poster on PPC forums, particularly on Disability issues:-

 

A contract term that has the effect of causing a breach of the Equality Act is null and void. A person's disability need does not disappear if a Blue Badge is out of date or not displayed (or even if they don't have one at all).

 

EQUALITY ACT 2010

142 Unenforceable terms

(1) A term of a contract is unenforceable against a person in so far as it constitutes, promotes or provides for treatment of that or another person that is of a description prohibited by this Act.

 

144(1) A term of a contract is unenforceable by a person in whose favour it would operate in so far as it purports to exclude or limit a provision of or made under this Act.

 

29 Provision of services

(1) A person (a “service-provider”) concerned with the provision of a service to the public or a section of the public (for payment or not) must not discriminate against a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

 

(2) A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, discriminate against a person (B)—

(a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B;

(b)by terminating the provision of the service to B;

©by subjecting B to any other detriment.

 

(3) A service-provider must not, in relation to the provision of the service, harass—

(a)a person requiring the service, or

(b)a person to whom the service-provider provides the service.

 

(4) A service-provider must not victimise a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

 

(5) A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, victimise a person (B)—

(a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B;

 

 

 

That is the position in a private car park where there is no Parking Places Order and no Council involvement (Blue Badges not applicable despite the [problematic]' signs). The Equality Act is silent on 'Permits and Badges', as they are not the only indicator of disability need by a service-user wishing to avail themselves of a 'reasonable adjustment' provision such as a wider/closer bay.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The reason Devere gets away with this sort of thing, in excess of 200 court claims pa, is because he is very well practised at what he does and his carefully 'selected' targets aren't. He offers a personalised and very local 'service' designed to earn a living. This is not a hi-tech, automated process.

 

No-one seems to have put his processes in relation to the BPA Code of Conduct and the Equality Act to the sword, yet.

[Kimdino]

Thanks for all that. Apologies for my late reply but things are a bit busy for a couple of days.

 

There is certainly a good defence in there. I may also have something that may be useful under section 35.

I'm not very clear about the bit about page 21? I think I see it but unsure, will mull it over tonight.

 

Should be able to get back on this properly tomorrow.

Cheers

[Surfer01]

Thanks for all that. Apologies for my late reply but things are a bit busy for a couple of days.

 

There is certainly a good defence in there. I may also have something that may be useful under section 35.

I'm not very clear about the bit about page 21? I think I see it but unsure, will mull it over tonight.

 

Should be able to get back on this properly tomorrow.

Cheers

 

Were there any signs up stating that a Blue Badge must be displayed? Somehow I doubt it as there is no obligation to display a BB on private land so I would ignore it and not worry about any regulations etc as there are none! Even if the BB was expired NO offence has been committed as it is on private land. Ignore their silly unenforceable invoice for now.

[parkstoneboy]

Were there any signs up stating that a Blue Badge must be displayed? Somehow I doubt it as there is no obligation to display a BB on private land so I would ignore it and not worry about any regulations etc as there are none! Even if the BB was expired NO offence has been committed as it is on private land. Ignore their silly unenforceable invoice for now.

 

I think we have to take it that there are signs stating that valid blue badge must be displayed We know no 'offence' has been committed. The OP is not faced with an unenforceable invoice at this stage, it's pay up or we start court proceedings

 

Breach of Car Park Terms and Conditions

Serial No DPS *****

 

At

Location Castlepoint

Vehicle Registration Number **** *** Seen By (attendant)

Make *********** Model ********* Colour ****

I breach of the Terms and Condtions as indicated (see overleaf for details) 1B

Any observations by attendant

 

There is a long history of Devere and the disabled section at Castlepoint. Occasionally Devere get some flack but Peter Matthews the GM of Castlepoint, who has obviously known Devere for a long time seems to have a happy knack of being able to phone up the Editor of the Bournemouth Echo and planting a story where it all comes alright in the end, Castlepoint come out smelling of roses in their continued fight against non-disabled people parking in the Disabled section, the Echo do their bit and Devere generously make a 'gesture of goodwill' and the post bag is full of comments recommending that any 'able-bodied' driver is hung, drawn and quartered.

 

Naturally the standard of reporting is very poor and as for any investigative journalism, forget it.

 

 

Devere's MO at Castelpoint is this. The Castlepoint security team and any Devere attendants keep an eagle eye on the Disabled section and slap a ticket on any vehicle with any minor 'transgression'

 

Most PPC's would be looking for payment and would actively chase that payment. Not so Devere. He leaves it, he may or may not send a reminder after a couple of months. After approx three months, wham, pay up in 7 days or face court.

 

The victim either coughs up £100 in a hurry or doesn't and will be issued with court papers. The next option is mediation and Devere can still walk away with c£150 if the victim caves in before court with a 50/50 agreement.

 

If it goes to court Devere will have all the information, photographs and experience stacked up in his favour if the victim is not thoroughly prepared. The Judge and Devere will keep the issue very narrow basis.

 

Did the victim have an out of date blue badge, answer yes, here's the photo

Victim was given a ticket - no response

Victim was sent ( or not sent a reminder but it's on Devere's documentation ) - no response

Victim was sent a final reminder - no response

Court claim issued

Mediation - Victim advised to split 50/50 - result for Devere

Court - NOTHING apart from the out of date blue badge and the breach of contract for that single point is discussed. The Judge isn't interested.

 

We know Devere were the most litigious PPC in 2011 with c 240 court papers issued, in 9 recent months they issued over 190 court proceedings. Only a handful of cases have made it to the forums. The victims are almost exclusively from the Bournemouth/Poole area so that if it does go to court it is in Bournemouth where Devere is used to winning.

 

Devere do not appear to paying much attention to POFA/POPLA/BPA procedures with their ticketing arrangements. Would someone else like to comment on the timeline given by the OP, basing it on the fact that the July reminder was not actually issued. I have spotted at least two BPA breaches, how about someone else confirming them ?

 

You have to assume that most victims cough up either at the final demand, mediation or at court. Over the years there will have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of local Devere victims via his well proven modus operandi.

 

I'd say things are looking good for the OP on several levels if he wants to stick at it and put up a fight.

[Surfer01]

Either way despite your long post quoting all sorts of mind numbing examples, it is an UNENFORCEABLE invoice as BB is not valid on private land. Most car aprks state "For BB holders only" on their signs as they know they cannot make you display a BB. If it went to court due to expired BB the magistrate sill probably die laughing at the PPC.

[ericsbrother]

Just a small point, it will be a County Court judge, not magistrate, as whatever the merits of the parking company's claim, it is not a criminal matter. Parking matters on the public highway were decriminalised yonks ago as well. I remember when you had to list parking offences on applications for passports, firearms certificates and joining the army but that was before Margaret Thatcher.

[parkstoneboy]

If it went to court due to expired BB the magistrate sill probably die laughing at the PPC.

 

How much have you looked into Devere's MO and history in court in Bournemouth ?

 

Do you really think he's having a punt for the first time on a Castlepoint disabled parking case ?

 

He has been 'doing' court a couple of hundred times a year for a number of years.

 

He knows exactly what he is doing and most of his chosen victims do not.

 

He should not be under-estimated and I certainly don't think he expects the magistrate to die laughing if it did get to court.

 

Having said that there is plenty to go on to blow him out of the water so let's see what the OP thinks

[Skiboy]

Just for your info

 

we had a run in with DPS 2 years ago (they lost and ending up paying us £350 under a wasted costs order from the County Court)

 

Devere Parking Services Ltd is run by one Lee Kirsch and his girlfriend/partner.plus a couple of minimum wage gofers.

 

They are now a registered company but were not registered for VAT (which if you do the maths from Castlepoints own published figures o

n how many tickets have been issued on their site alone you could wonder why)

 

Kirsch can be looked up on web sites like 192.com where you can even get his home address,

he lives in Poole and describes himself as a parking attendant (lol).

 

You can link him to Devere because Devere obtain registered keeper details from the DVLA

and when we tackled him they should have been registered with the Government Information Commisioner,

 

Devere were not but Kirsch was at the same local mail drop address Devere use,

 

he\s well known locally, stocky balding chap in his late 50's was driving a red Jag with a personal number plate LEE ***.

 

From what we found out Steve Williams is a pseudonym used by Kirsch and the whole is circus is ran by Kirsch and his girlfriend plus a few paid hangers on,

she turned up at our preliminary hearing not the person named Steve Williams who signed all the letters

and embarrassed herself in front of the District Judge by being clueless

 

192 also shows Kirsch is a JP or Magistrate if you like,

he sits at Bournemouth Magistrates Court where he has let off speeding motorists bought before his court by the Police

(probably with no sense of irony but this is why he tries very hard to remain anonymous.

 

I do know that he has received warnings from Poole Trading Standards over DPS tactics and business method.

 

With regard to Castlepoint on their website up until recently they used to call Devere's invoices (for that is what they are) 'fines'

which since they employ Devere would surely make any claim for damages from DPS invalid as they are clearly punitive a

nd not a true representation of cost incurred when they claim "damages for alleged breaches of contract, contract which have no legal validity in my humble opinion.

 

I'm not local to Bournemouth or Poole so at the end of the day it's of little consequence to me

but if I were a local I might question this man's fitness to hold public office.

 

Regarding him holding any influence in County Court I would say this is not the case.

He is nothing more than a lay magistrate (no legally qualifications and unpaid) at the Magistrates Court in Bournemouth

and I've not yet met a District or Circuit Judge (who are legally trained and appointed by the home office)

in any County Court who didn't look down their nose at people like him

 

Bottom line is these claims are spurious, vexatious, and have no legal merit

which when put to the test properly have failed repeatedly.

 

They only get away with it because they know the system and their victim don't.

 

Knowledge is power.

[parkstoneboy]

Thanks Skiboy

 

Just in case anyone doubts that info here's a link to Poole Quarter's web site and their new contract with Devere

 

http://www.ourpoolequarter.org.uk/devere%20letter.pdf

 

When the Devere page opens up, right click and look under document properties and see who the author is.

 

The parking attendant, not identified on the original ticket, in breach of BPA AOS code of conduct will have been a Castlepoint security employee.

[parkstoneboy]

Just so it goes on record, as it were, can someone who opens the link, send a reply with the name

[dx100uk]

what they hell has it got to do with them if the car has no valid tax disc..........

 

 

dx