Another Vodafone default - Now in deadlock - ***Defaults removed***

[salphy]

She said it became covered by law in 2012? Even if she can't help us, if we can get something along the lines of the service members credit relief act that America has to protect future UK soldiers then atleast there will be some good come from it. So as i said the lady from the directors office told me as the account was now in deadlock she couldn't investigate further, I then made them aware we would now be issuing court proceedings and she has replied today to say she has passed it on to a manager who will review the case again. Surely they must be running out of managers to pass me on to! Ah well I'll keep going until the prime minister and the highest judge tells me no!

[Mike_hawk]

Have you established whether there was a second account/service contract?

[salphy]

Vodafone say there was a second account. We honestly don't remember, but it was that long ago we're not in a position to say no definitely not. We just can't understand why we'd need two contracts in the space of 3 months. Other than a dongle maybe? Wish we'd known about it sooner so we'd remember.

When his mum made the part payment she thought that was to settle everything. Especially as they wanted nearly £1000 she thought that must be for both. I said this to VF but they said if someone rings to pay a bill they don't usually check if there are other outstanding bills or accounts. So the other one has carried on to a debt collectors.

You suggested asking for a refund to get attention, should i ask Arrow Global for a refund for the second bill we didn't know about or ask Vodafone for a refund of it all?

Thanks for your help

[Mike_hawk]

I'd write to both demanding a refund, set your correspondence out as a formal complaint to each.

 

Vodafone and AG... match made in heaven, both appalling.

[salphy]

Ok I'll try that, I'm rubbish at writing formal complaints though i get so angry and carried away.

The reply i got before said;

Thank you for your email

I have passed your details on to a manager for the case to be reviewed. We will be in contact regarding the decision once all the points you have raised have been looked into fully.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

I really want to reply to remind them of every point I've made to make sure they all get looked into. Or should I just leave it and see what they come back with? I don't know if I'm right to do that so i don't get mugged off again or whether I'm taking to too far because I'm really annoyed that she tried to tell me she couldn't investigate further due to it being deadlocked but when she realised I'm not going to give in and accept that and mention court she's suddenly able to get someone to review it again. Don't know if it would be being cautious or pushing my luck!

[salphy]

Also do you know if Shoosmiths and Arrow Global are the same? We checked our bank statements the other day to check dates and the payment we made when he found out about the outstanding bill was to Shoosmiths but the default is on his credit file under Arrow Global?

[Mike_hawk]

Shoosmiths are essentially rent-a-sols to most DCA's

 

Did the correspondence come from it or AG and were you directed to make payment to its account?

 

Perhaps if you could post a copy of its correspondence on here less any personal identifiers it may help untangle the matter.

[Mike_hawk]

Ok I'll try that, I'm rubbish at writing formal complaints though i get so angry and carried away.

The reply i got before said;

Thank you for your email

I have passed your details on to a manager for the case to be reviewed. We will be in contact regarding the decision once all the points you have raised have been looked into fully.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

I really want to reply to remind them of every point I've made to make sure they all get looked into. Or should I just leave it and see what they come back with? I don't know if I'm right to do that so i don't get mugged off again or whether I'm taking to too far because I'm really annoyed that she tried to tell me she couldn't investigate further due to it being deadlocked but when she realised I'm not going to give in and accept that and mention court she's suddenly able to get someone to review it again. Don't know if it would be being cautious or pushing my luck!

 

Unless you've previously demanded a refund the complaint should be acted upon, when you have both responses you should be able reconcile with the data it provides within its SAR response.

 

If it doesn't reconcile it probably won't have complied with the DPA.

[salphy]

That's the problem we don't have any correspondence we applied for finance through forces cars, they told us the finance had been declined as we had an outstanding bill, we can't remember if they told us who it was or if we did a credit check, found the number for them and phoned up gave our name and paid because we didn't want to lose the car or deposit. Didn't receive any correspondence whatsoever. He sent the money over to me and I paid, but it appears on my bank statement as Shoosmiths but his credit file as AG.

[salphy]

No i haven't previously requested a refund, will try that though, I'm going to make sure I'm not ignored or fobbed off again!

Thanks for the advice I really appreciate it

[Mike_hawk]

That's the problem we don't have any correspondence we applied for finance through forces cars, they told us the finance had been declined as we had an outstanding bill, we can't remember if they told us who it was or if we did a credit check, found the number for them and phoned up gave our name and paid because we didn't want to lose the car or deposit. Didn't receive any correspondence whatsoever. He sent the money over to me and I paid, but it appears on my bank statement as Shoosmiths but his credit file as AG.

 

All the more reason to serve it with a formal complaint.

 

Case law is a bit of a minefield for monies paid under a mistake of fact, draft a letter to each and post the content on here before you send.

[Mike_hawk]

Did you ever receipt any demands or statements for either account (assuming the 2nd exists)?

[salphy]

I'm not sure where to start with a letter like that! Do you know of any good templates?

We don't think so. My partner definitely didn't but he was overseas at BFPO addresses. His parents don't remember receiving any to their house - where the contract is registered. As i recall on the phone Vodafone said they sent one letter, I was too wound up and upset to remember if they said a date or what letter they sent but hopefully the SAR will clear this up for us. It's possible they sent one for the first account which his mum settled, but definitely didn't get any after about a remaining one. His parents were dealing with all his letters etc whilst he was away and they definitely wouldn't have ignored or kept something like that from him. But as Vodafone keep telling me they aren't required to send any letters. I think it's wrong these companies don't have to follow the same rules banks do, it should be the same for everyone who has the power to issue a default. They really ruin peoples lives

[salphy]

Is it worth sending an SAR to Arrow Global aswell? Can i do that? They told me they sent a NOA letter, but we honestly didn't receive anything. But they then went on to say as the debt was bought from Vodafone they don't have to provide any evidence or any documentation.

[Mike_hawk]

No templates that I'm aware of, have a go at drafting something and attach on here in word .doc format

 

You'll find that Vodafone say many things which don't stand up to scrutiny!

 

Ask Lee if Vodafone would care to give its corporate position on the effect of UTCCR on its early termination charges, would make interesting reading.

[Mike_hawk]

Is it worth sending an SAR to Arrow Global aswell? Can i do that? They told me they sent a NOA letter, but we honestly didn't receive anything. But they then went on to say as the debt was bought from Vodafone they don't have to provide any evidence or any documentation.

 

It won't have any information of interest, assuming it responds to your demand it will be looking to rely on something.

 

If you have a tenner to spare for a SAR it may be useful but I think you'll be disappointed

[salphy]

I was just wondering if it would have something to prove they sent a letter? There email said this;

 

We are legally obliged to provide you with a Notice of Assignment which was issued on 23/12/2011. We are under no obligation to provide documentation which has previously been supplied. This is evidenced by the payments you made prior to allowing the account to fall into a default state.

 

Definitely not evidence, we paid when the finance company told us about it. He was on POTL at this time so would have been home for six weeks to receive letters and definitely didn't get any.

Just noticed on an email from Vodafone regarding the 2nd account sold to Arrow Global, "The final collection letter sent on 15th November 2010" The part payment his mum made was March 2011, this proves no other letters were sent after she made that part payment? So she would have thought all had been settled, which is why we didn't know it was still outstanding?

[Mike_hawk]

It'll rely on semantics, 'final collection letter' 'notice of assignment', 2 different animals.

 

Either party, assignor or assignee, can serve the noa.... there is no legal obligation for vf to serve it.

 

You'll get used to the junk it responds with, let's hope it doesn't mind complying with statutory instruments and digs out the service contract/s and account data for your SAR.

[salphy]

Do we have any grounds for confusing and misleading communication? As we thought all accounts had been settled with the part payment agreement and VF did not send any further correspondence after this?

 

They also said the account contract was disconnected after 2 months, on our credit file 2 months missed payments was £295, it then jumps up from £295 to £921 - does that mean this jump is all interest? If it is then no wonder his mum agreed a part payment!

[Mike_hawk]

Do we have any grounds for confusing and misleading communication? As we thought all accounts had been settled with the part payment agreement and VF did not send any further correspondence after this?

 

They also said the account contract was disconnected after 2 months, on our credit file 2 months missed payments was £295, it then jumps up from £295 to £921 - does that mean this jump is all interest? If it is then no wonder his mum agreed a part payment!

 

It is probably all early termination charges, most if not all telecoms providers charge them but they are in effect a penalty. Hence the reason VF (amongst others) assign debts in preference to pursuing

 

You really need all account data to establish whether you have a cause.

 

Draft the demands and get the SAR in the post (rec del) and it should hopefully result in determining which information is accurate and which is creative.

[salphy]

Ok thankyou. If you don't mind can you tell me everything I need to put in this letter? Is it just to request a refund or complain about everything else aswell? Also promise not to laugh at my first draft which will most likely be terrible have my last exam Thursday so will get it done after this. Thanks again for your help.

[Mike_hawk]

Its just to establish a demand for a refund.

 

To vf, set out that the money paid was subject to an unequivocal full and final settlement in consideration of an early termination charge. It now appearing to have acted in an opportunistic manner in reneging on the agreement and placing itself in a better financial position.

 

To AG, set out that the monies were paid under mistake as the account had previously been settled in agreement with vf.

 

This assumes only 1 account is in question with the balance split at termination

Edited August 26, 2013 by Mike_hawk

[salphy]

Vodafone say there were 2 seperate accounts :-/ so I guess I can't do this? We weren't aware of the second account

[Mike_hawk]

Vodafone say there were 2 seperate accounts :-/ so I guess I can't do this? We weren't aware of the second account

 

Adjust the letter to vf to state settlement of any/all outstanding indebtedness. If you believed payment was made in consideration of any/all accounts then that should remain your position.

 

I'm struggling to understand why it is being so bloody minded in not supplying the 2nd account data. If its account of events is accurate it could easily provide you with supporting evidence.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Mike_hawk

[salphy]

I do 100% believe this, there is no way his mum would have settled one account, knowing there was another still owed without telling him or doing something about it. Thankyou i will say that in my next letter. Should i wait to see what comes back from this next manager I'm being passed onto first?

 

Lee told my partner it was two seperate accounts, he was so aggetated and upset he didn't think to ask everything we needed to know like about the 2nd account so that's why i'm now dealing with VF on his behalf. I have asked 2 customer service advisers about it. One couldn't even find any accounts in my fiance's name. The other was quite rude, told me the missed payments were from August 2010 and disconnected in October 2010, that the final letter was sent on 15th November 2010 and that the decision to remove would now have to be made by Arrow Global. Then Arrow Global told me they couldn't do anything unless Vodafone say so as they are the ones who told them to default the account. I then went back to the same lady in quality assurance and asked again and she sent me the SAR form.