Capital one old credit card debt - currently still paying lowell £1PCM since 2006

[w1n3pd]

Just to update on the Capital One CCA response. I just received the following letter together with the signed copy of the agreement.

 

As this doesn't appear on my credit file any more, I shall treat it in the similar way as I have been advised for my DLC Case unless I receive a different advice from you guys.

 

 

Please see the attached for the letter I received.

 

As always, grateful for the advice.

[dx100uk]

can we see the agreement please?

 

when you attach stuff

please PDF it first

 

if you cant read your attachments, neither can we!!

 

dx

[Desperate Daniella]

What they say is an agreement may not be an enforceable agreement.

[w1n3pd]

Hi, Thank you for the response. Sorry about the files, I thought they were readable. I am not at home for this week, upon my return would update you with good quality pdfs. I am grateful for your help as always.

[dx100uk]

have a good time!

 

dx

[w1n3pd]

Hello There,

 

Since my last update I have received reply to CCA in two instalments, all of them are in the pdf attached. Please note that there is no mention of £1 payment that I have been giving to them. And when I last checked these do not appear on my credit file.

 

So far I have received the following;

 

1) signed copy of the contract - attached

2) T&C at the inception date - not attached as it is almost the same as default T&C which are attached

3) T&C at default - attached but no date of default is given

4) Statements of important transaction with corresponding letter of notification - attached

 

As there were too many pages it is possible that I might have not been able to see my personal details on some, if you spot any personal details kindly let me know so that I could take them off. Thanks.

 

I remain as ever grateful for your help and guidance.

Edited August 19, 2013 by w1n3pd
personal info omission

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi there,

 

Firstly you need to delete the figure on the send page of the letter.

 

What they have sent is an application form, not a properly regulated Credit Agreement.

 

I cannot read the paragraph at the bottom.

 

Is there any reference in it to T&Cs that you must read before you sign it?

 

Any reference to any conditions shown overleaf?

 

The Prescribed terms - interest rates, payment details, anything like that?

[w1n3pd]

Thank you for your reply. I am grateful for this. I shall try to answer all the questions.

 

Hi there,

 

Firstly you need to delete the figure on the send page of the letter.

 

Could you please tell me which page number are you referring to? and which figure? Sorry!

 

 

Is there any reference in it to T&Cs that you must read before you sign it?

 

Any reference to any conditions shown overleaf?

 

The Prescribed terms - interest rates, payment details, anything like that?

 

 

Yes in the last paragraph there is reference to see overleaf under the heading of your marketing and heading. and it specifically refers to the agreement paragraph 23. My understanding is that perhaps the agreement was sent out together with the application form.

Edited August 19, 2013 by w1n3pd

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry. My typo. The second page of Cabot's letter shows a figure of £400 ish.

 

I'll just look at the rest.

[Desperate Daniella]

They didn't send out agreements with the application forms.

 

Sorry. I'm a bit muddled. Does it say the marketing info is under Para 23?

[w1n3pd]

Yes, it says to refer to para 23 overleaf.

 

I shall get rid of that figure. But as you shall see I have posted in 14 pages in total that include statements as well. Should I get rid of all the figures which would mean removing all of statement pages?

 

 

Thanking you as always.

[Desperate Daniella]

Yes. I read the application and the T&Cs. I didn't look at all the statements, because we can think about charges separately.

 

Para 23 of the T&Cs is not about marketing which is why I wanted to be very clear on that.

[Desperate Daniella]

I hate asking you to do this, but when you have a minute could you please type out that complete section at the bottom of the application form.

 

I have zoomed in, but still can't read it properly.

[Desperate Daniella]

Did you total up all the charges? Sorry if you have answered this earlier.

[w1n3pd]

I apologise for not being clear. I have given it a second go with hopefully better quality, please see the attached. I have however typed the last paragraph as you said below.

 

 

 

Your information and marketing. important: please read ‘use of information’ overleaf (section 23 of the agreement) which sets out how your information will be used. By signing this application, you agree that information about you may be used like this, regardless of whether or not your application is accepted. One of the ways your information will be used is to send you information or phone you about other products or services offered by capital one or other companies. Your name, address and phone number may be given to those other companies for that purpose. If you do not wish to receive marketing information, please tick this box.

[w1n3pd]

Did you total up all the charges? Sorry if you have answered this earlier.

 

 

Please dont be. You are the one who is helping me. I should be grateful for your time.

 

I HAVE JUST RECONCILED THE INS AND OUTS AND FOUND OUT THAT

 

1) extra charges including interest payment have been of £120.

2) there are many recurring transactions such as direct debit received and then subsequently reversed. same thing happened to late payment fee and then those fees have been reversed. The idea was to prolong it as much as they can so that it goes above credit limit which would allow them to charge three charges on recurring basis, over limit charge, late payment and interest charges. The confusing bit is why have they been charging in the beginning and then subsequently cancelling just to keep on adding the interest payments. Please see the last pages of the above pdf for statements.

[Desperate Daniella]

I'm very confused by that too.

 

However, what is obvious is that the credit agreement clearly was not in force at the time you signed the Application form, because paragraph 23 just refers to English Law.

 

I would write back and say that there is no connection whatsoever between your Application Form and what they allege is your credit agreement which does not even have a place for your signature and is therefore, of course, unsigned by you.

 

Then refer to them to the Waksman judgement in Carey v HSBC, paragraph 234 (4) which states that where an agreement has been varied a copy of the original agreement must be supplied.

 

Then tell them that under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR 2008) they have an obligation to let you know if they hold, or have ever held, an original signed credit agreement for this alleged account and if they hold no such agreement they are equally obliged to inform you.

 

Also say that it is clear they have sent a document which you can prove is not the original agreement in a deliberate attempt to mislead and obtain money to which they are not legally entitled.

 

That should give them something to think about.

[w1n3pd]

Oh that is a great help. I shall write to them and get back to you of any updates. Thank you!!

[w1n3pd]

I have just finished writing them the email with the following letter. They have replied by posts to my emails in the past.

 

 

Thank you for the recent letter I acknowledge the receipt of it. I have gone through the particulars and am yet to find all the relevant documents that I must receive in response to my CCA request under s77/78.

 

What you claim is an agreement is actually an application form and that there is no connection whatsoever between the Application Form and what you allege is my credit agreement which does not even have a place for my signature and is therefore, of course, unsigned by me. Furthermore the paragraph 23 on the application form that it refers to is a completely different paragraph on the alleged T&C at inception.

 

I would like to draw your attention to Waksman judgement in Carey v HSBC, paragraph 234 (4) which states that where an agreement has been varied a copy of the original agreement must be supplied. Also, you must be aware that knowingly fabricating an agreement of which a DCA has no legal rights of would lead to criminal proceedings by the defendant.

 

Also, under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR 2008) you have an obligation to let me know if you hold, or have ever held, an original signed credit agreement for this alleged account. And if you hold no such agreement you are equally obliged to inform you as such.

 

Therefore, from the correspondence it can be safely deduced that the document that you have produced to me is not the original agreement and can be proven as such. I find it a deliberate attempt on your part to mislead and obtain monies from law abiding citizens for which you have no legal entitlement to.

 

Any further threatening correspondence would tantamount to extortionist behaviour and would be liable for criminal proceedings against you once a complaint has been lodged and strongly pursued with the ICO.

 

Sincerely,

[Desperate Daniella]

And let's see what they say next!

[w1n3pd]

Good News!!

 

 

I received the attached on Friday last week. I am indebted to you guys for this. I owe this website and the people here a lot. Hopefully you guys shall accept my gratitude on my next pay day.

 

Thanks.

 

I am now excited about your advice on my other matters that I opened on this website.

[dx100uk]

and another fleecer bites the dust!!

 

dx

[Desperate Daniella]

Great result. Well done!