Capquest - Red Drving School

[TheSlaternator]

Hi Cag's

 

I will try to keep this brief but could do with a little crumb of comfort in our house tonight.

 

My wife applied for one of these driver instructor courses which was RED Driving School.

 

Below is a brief timeline.

 

• Went to find about a driving instructor course in 2007, filled out some forms.
  
• I then didn't take the course due medical reasons, the course was cancelled with Red in Wimbledon
  
• One year later £179.00 was taken from my account, got in touch with RED and they agreed to take no more money
  
• I heard no more untill 2011 when Capquest contacted me requestiing £7000 for a driving course not even taken
  
• Capquest had taken a CCJ agaisnt me, so wrote to Capquest explaining the situation & received more threatning letters from Capquest
  
• Applied to the court to have CCJ removed and case to heard at court
  
• Went to Croydon County Court in November and judge was sympathetic towards my case and questioned Capquests conduct and advised to me to put in my own witness statement
  
• Another date was set for 11th March 2013
  
• This judge gave me 3 minutes of his time, did not listen to my point of view & told me it was my signature on the credit agreement and I was liable to pay all court cost's and interest over 5 years
  
• Red Driving School have received this money, I did not not knowingly sign & credit agreement or receive any money or do the course
  

 

So what are our options now? Can't afford to pay this debt, don't think we should bearing mind we have not even had the course, not like we have had a car or something.

 

Think we have been very let down by the judge today.

 

Any help would be of a great help to us.

[renegadeimp]

Did you appeal the recent hearing? Did you submit a request for an extended time? Some judges sadly dont care about debtors and just want to rubber stamp the documents on as many forms as possible purely to get the max money in for the least work. The same happened to me years ago with 2 CCJ's.

[TheSlaternator]

Did you appeal the recent hearing? Did you submit a request for an extended time? Some judges sadly dont care about debtors and just want to rubber stamp the documents on as many forms as possible purely to get the max money in for the least work. The same happened to me years ago with 2 CCJ's.

 

Yes we did the extended time and took it to court, can we appeal the court judgment from today?

[Lookingforjustice]

You entered into a contract and unless it was cancelled within 7 days or the time stated on the contract (if longer) you are liable to pay the full amount. Have you got a copy of the original agreement and what does it say about being unable to take the course due to ill health? Can you get anything in writing to support you were unfit at the time.? What was said in the phone call following the deduction of £179 a year later?

Did you submit a statement as instructed by the judge? Red Driving School may have been mistaken to pass this 'debt' onto Capquest. Did you not hear from Capquest before they got a CCJ against you?

 

You have a limited time to appeal this judgement so get that in and your case together. I think that only one payment was deducted from you a year after the event gives some credence that the company came to some kind of agreement with you. If you can show the call took place from a phone bill it may be you can argue there was an oral agreement not to proceed, if that was the case. Was there a time limit in which to take this course?

In CC cases the judges that hear the Case Management Directions are not necessarily the same ones that hear the final case.

[unclebulgaria67]

I have read that Red Driving School do not run their own courses. They contract you to a driving instructor company near to you and it may be the case that Red have had to pay this driving instructor company, even though you did not attend.

 

You need to appeal this and find out what costs Red did incur, as a result of the course being cancelled. I think you may be wise to get a solicitor to act for you.

[TheSlaternator]

I have read that Red Driving School do not run their own courses. They contract you to a driving instructor company near to you and it may be the case that Red have had to pay this driving instructor company, even though you did not attend.

 

You need to appeal this and find out what costs Red did incur, as a result of the course being cancelled. I think you may be wise to get a solicitor to act for you.

 

How much and how do we appeal?

 

Is there a means test to say how much my wife can pay, if not successful?

[Lookingforjustice]

There are a lot of unanswered questions in the background to this case such as how did you end up with a CCJ in the first place without defending it? Did you put a schedule of income and outgoings this time around for the court to consider? Section 52 of the CPR (Civil Procedure Rules)on the ministry of Justice website deals with appeals but you would definitely benefit from speaking to a lawyer and may get help through Citizens advice. You do have to put your appeal in fairly promptly. It is possible now that having failed to overturn the CCJ the Capquest may go back to court to get an enforcement order against you and at this time you can put in a schedule of your income and outgoings for consideration and an offer to pay in instalments. You should have supporting evidence for your income/outgoing schedule for the judge to consider. You can make 'instalment payments' into the court and then when Capquest go for an enforcement order these will be deducted from any order the court should make but it does indicate a desire to comply with the order and may make the judge more include to issue an instalment order. You can't appeal just to get an instalment order and as I understand it, in an appeal if you have already made any payments into the court this cannot be mentioned in the appeal.

[TheSlaternator]

Many Thanks

 

When my wife got the CCJ she gave it to me where I paid £80 to have it set aside, in those forms we put down her income, around £250-£300 per month. Capquest then provided loads of letters which they claim to have sent her making various offers to pay the debt (we never never seen them at all until copies provided). That's when we got the CCJ. The debt is 6 years old in June does that help her in any way?

 

What type of enforcement action could they take?

[unclebulgaria67]

The 6 years makes no odds, as they have a CCJ.

 

If you want to fight this, then see a Solicitor. They charge about £175 per hour, but you may get a free half hour consultation to see whether it is worth challenging the CCJ or not. Sometimes Solicitors are available at CAB.

 

If you don't want to fight this for whatever reasons, then you will have to enter into repayment. Make an offer of repayment of x per month. If they reject it, then you can ask the court to set the repayments. If you don't make payments, they can then instruct bailiffs or even upgrade to HCEO's for a debt that is over £600.

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/understand-judgments-fines/enforcing-judgments

[unclebulgaria67]

Try this for online help. It is a new government online legal advice service.

 

https://claonlineadvice.justice.gov.uk/

 

If you do a Google search for community legal advice, you may find a legal advice centre near to you. You may even get some help with how to appeal.

[Lookingforjustice]

The six years doesn't help you here. Capquest is a debt recovery company and it would appear that they have been sold your debt by Red Driving School. Your debt was incurred in 2007 and Capquest took action for recovery in 2011. The six years statute barred rule is if not action whatsoever has been taken to recover the debt for that time but as you will see from many postings on consumer forum that debt recovery companies will still try to bully people into paying the debt and through subterfuge have even managed to get court orders issued after the statute bar. This is a common complaint where people are saying they never received anything from the company in relation to the debt but in the case if it going to court it is the court's responsibility to send out documents to you when a claim is lodged for you to respond to. If you have moved since the contract was signed for the Red Driving Course then that could be the answer. If not check with the court for where they claim they sent the papers to you in relation to responding to the initial claim, court directions and advising of court dates. Request a copy of the original Capquest claim you are entitled to have it. It's not just the Capquest paperwork that has gone astray here it is all the communication from the court. If Capquest provided the wrong contact details to the court you may have another appeal point here. I doubt the court will accept that all their paperwork went astray too. It is considered to be your responsibility to advise on change of addresses to your creditors however if following your phone calls with Red following your illness you understood the matter to be closed. Oral agreements, if you can show the balance of probability was what you said in your discussion with Red Driving School was what happened then this matter shouldn't be being pursued. That is why I suggested if you could find an itemised phone bill around the time you claim the call was made to Red advising them of your illness and that you wouldn't be able to attend the course and they agreed to that there is no other evidence to refute. I believe it would require a witness statement from someone in Red who dealt with the matter to say otherwise. Also I asked what the contract says about illness if you are physically unable to take the course due to illness. A letter from your doctor to say that you were ill at this time and unfit to undertake this course would be helpful if you visited them and/or your employer if you were off work at the same time. These are all matters which the court has not heard and so can be appeal points. I don't know your case well enough but I would start with the contract to see what provision it made for being unable to take the course through ill health. I would also ask the court to check the address which was given presumably by Capquest as your address for paperwork and was anything sent out registered post. If the wrong address or an old address is on the original CCJ paperwork that would be another point for appeal. If an old address then you could argue that you had no obligation to notify Red Driving School as they had agreed to you cancel the contract when you contacted them. That they only took one payment from you bank account lends support to this. If you haven't changed address then I cannot think of why you received nothing from either Capquest or the Court and I doubt a court would on the balance of probability believe that you didn't receive letters from either source but just in case I might check with the post office to see if they had any complaints of mail not being delivered in your neighbourhood at the time. It has been known for the odd rogue postman to dump letters rather than deliver them rare but it can happen. Is there the possibility due to illness you couldn't cope and didn't open them which might be an explanation but not one a court I believe would be sympathetic with unless the illness had been very serious.

 

Once a CCJ has been issued if the monies are not forthcoming Capquest can return to court for an enforcement order. Usually this would be for the order to be enforced by court bailiffs who would look to recover the debt. There are different enforcement orders which include putting a charge on your property if there is equity in it and forcing a sale or coming to your vehicle or other possession to the value of the debt. You should be notified of this event so you can put your offer forward if this happens but given you haven't anything upto now, I would send a registered letter to the court to be put on file with your full contact details advising that in this eventuality you wish to be notified of the hearing so you may attend.

[TheSlaternator]

I will see if we can get a solicitor but as you say expensive.

 

If she only gets around £250-£300 a month what would be a reasonable repayment offer, or just make an offer and see if they accept? I don't think there is anything worth 7k plus in the house. we have car worth about 5k but I am thinking off putting that in my name.

 

I understand that they can put a charge on the house and take the money when it's sold? Is that an offer we can make.

 

My wife and I are not together at this moment so the money she gets is important to her for food and clothes etc.

[Lookingforjustice]

If you can show on the balance or probabilities that Red agreed orally to the cancellation of this contract then it follows that they were mistaken in selling the debt onwards to Capquest as it is not owed and it is a matter for Capquest to take up with them. A point for appeal can be evidence that the court has not seen or heard. Again see S52 CPR guidance on the MOJ site.

[unclebulgaria67]

I will see if we can get a solicitor but as you say expensive.

 

If she only gets around £250-£300 a month what would be a reasonable repayment offer, or just make an offer and see if they accept? I don't think there is anything worth 7k plus in the house. we have car worth about 5k but I am thinking off putting that in my name.

 

I understand that they can put a charge on the house and take the money when it's sold? Is that an offer we can make.

 

My wife and I are not together at this moment so the money she gets is important to her for food and clothes etc.

 

Why not see whether Community Legal Advice can help or not. There are many legal advice centres around the country. It might not cost too much to make an appeal. I believe that the amount claimed by CapQuest should have been disputed, as Red driving school would not have made a loss for whole cost of the course. This should have been defended at the time, by asking Red to account for their losses by providing paperwork to confirm their actual losses.

 

She needs to get legal advice, otherwise I can see CapQuest going back to court and you will have bailiffs at the door. If there is a car on the driveway, they will apply a levy on it and argue about ownership afterwards.

 

I understand that your current position is difficult with separation, but if this is not dealt with now, it will only get worse.

[Lookingforjustice]

They don't put a charge on you house for when you sell it, they will force a sale not wait to you want to sell and it may mean that you will not get the full market value for it. On enforcement they realise they may not get the full debt but they want as much as they can get. Transferring assets into someone else's name is a common tactic but one the court is very much alert to and one they would take a very dim view of. ie The bailiffs will probably take the car whether it's in your name or her name. There will be a record or registered owners at DVLA. The court would want to see a proper account of income and outgoings for you to come up with a reasonable amount. The income seems low but to do this exercise properly I believe would have to show joint income and outgoings. ie Utilities, credit card payments, car payments, council tax, fares to and from work etc and from what is left make a reasonable offer this is where CAB and you community legal advice will be able to help as well as with your appeal. Don't look at worse case scenario here because if you can make a reasonable offer which is supported by evidence the court will be looking for ways to make instalment payments work without recourse to the more drastic means of recovery. The offer shouldn't be a guesstimate of what they might accept it needs to be worked out on what you can reasonably afford.

 

I agree with Uncle Bulgaria you should go and get advice to help you prepare properly to get your payment options considered and for advice on appealing against the decision.

[unclebulgaria67]

They won't force the sale of a house. The charge is put on the house and you may have to enter into a repayment arrangement. If you then don't make the repayments, they may apply to the court for the house to be sold, but this is very unlikely.

 

The chances are that the first option will be bailiffs and if that does not work, they will go back to the court for other options.

 

Anyway, just make sure that she obtains legal advice urgently and that an appeal is entered or an affordable repayment offer is made