is it true?

[stuggling]

A few of my friends put this up

 

BEDROOM TAX ) IF YOU SMALL BEDROOM IS 70SQ FT OR UNDER IT IS CLASSED AS A BOXROOM THERE FOR CAN NOT BE CHARGED BEDROOM TAX , THIS IS LISTED UNDER THE HOUSING ACT 1985 SECTION 326 , PLEASE USE THIS DO NOT TAKE ANY EXCUSES FROM THE COUNCIL AS THE HOUSING ACT 1985 CAN NOT BE CHANGED BY LAW .

 

 

But im not sure it TRUE and would like to know if it is?

 

I'm ok not effected by any of the changes and to some extent agree as we in a 2 bed for 6 of us and can not get a 3 bed especially a social one but get on with things.

[id6052]

the housing act 1985 is not relevant to how housing benefit is calculated

[antone]

Id6052, I was about to PM you about this. I take it we can assume that "no, it's not true"?

[stuggling]

I thought so too! But people are saying this is a loophole and the councils must go by this, I suppose people circulating this on Facebook will realise in April that it not TRUE.

[antone]

People circulate all sorts of nonsense on Facebook, sadly.

[id6052]

The government have not included any definition of bedroom within the HB regs, therefore most Tribunals would probably start by using the ordinary usage of the word.

 

The only way we are likely to get a definition of what constitutes a bedroom and what doesn't will come as cases are appealed to the Upper Tribunal. And I hope that most LAs and welfare rights groups are going to work together to fast-track test cases to the UT.

 

Until that time, I think very few (if any) Local Authorities are going to: -

 

1. introduce a room size criteria which does not exist in HB regs
   
2. exclude bedrooms used for other purposes such as offices, walk-in wardrobes, gyms, etc
   

I think there is a possibility that some (but not all) Local Authorities might exclude bedrooms used as sterile treatment rooms for medical purposes.

 

It is likely that any Local Authority that does create its own exemptions such as 1. or 2. above will end up facing substantial financial penalties when they are audited.

 

I have seen similar posts on Facebook, there are also the ones advising people they are guaranteed a Discretionary Housing Payment. Such posts are dangerous as they are likely to give people false hope.

[renegadeimp]

Definition of a bedroom. Can you fit a bed in it? If so, its a bedroom.

[id6052]

From conversations I have had, it appears most LAs are going to base number of bedrooms upon landlord's records in terms of how many were stated in original tenancy agreement and how many bedrooms the rent has been calculated on.

[renegadeimp]

I remember my late grandma and her house. She had 2 normal size bedrooms and a very small box room. The box room was still considered to be a bedroom. I think it was around 6ft by 8 ft.

[id6052]

I remember my late grandma and her house. She had 2 normal size bedrooms and a very small box room. The box room was still considered to be a bedroom. I think it was around 6ft by 8 ft.

 

My mother's house also had 2 bedrooms and a similarly sized boxroom, it was also treated as a 3 bedroom house

[abc123def]

My smallest room is 6 x 5 and has a bed and small bedside cabinet in it, chest of drawers is on the landing as there is no room in bedroom. It's still a bedroom.

 

I'm getting annoyed by the rubbish being posted everywhere including facebook about this, the housing act quotes room sizes wrt to overcrowding only and not in order to define what a bedroom is and is irrelevant to bedroom definitions. It's getting people's hopes up unecessarily and people are not checking how accurate it is before posting. But that's facebook for you I guess.

[impecunious]

Language is abitrary. If a room contains a dining table and chairs, it's usually regarded as a dining room. A sitting room will be a place to sit -- sounds common sense doesn't it? A room then, that does not contain a bed and is not used for sleeping in, becomes an office when its furnished with a desk, a chair and a computer or a reading room if its filled with books and a comfy old chair! Simples!

 

Sadly though, life isn't that simple - damn it!

 

My spare room was a workshop/office until I had to rent it out to a lodger as a bedroom! No wonder there's so much confusion over what actually constitutes a bedroom.

 

Rant over - time for my medication and an early night!

 

 

Impecunious!

[worried33]

in terms of benefit calculation that wouldnt wash.

 

On the private sector eg. if entitled ot a one bed property, you are allowed kitchen, bathroom, living room and then 'any' one room over that big enough to fit a bed in as renegadeimp said.

If you only entitled to shared room rate, it is simply 'any one room.

 

So the bedrooms thing is simply room over the kitchen, bathroom, living room. They dont have to be specifically classed as a bedroom under the housing act or property description.

 

If I am posting my honest view, it seems the case previously people were able to live in council houses with spare rooms getting full rent paid when they otherwise wouldnt normally get that on the private market. I think this change is logical to make the rules fairer as people in private property already dont get rooms they not entitled to paid for them.

 

The rule change affecting 25 to 35 year olds seems much harsher and had far less publicity.

Edited March 4, 2013 by worried33

[osdset]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, housing benefit was never restricted to council or housing association property only, and as far as I can see it still isn't. The 'bedroom tax' focuses solely on how many spare bedrooms the property has, not who happens to own it.

 

The governments justification is why should benefit recipients get subsidised for rooms that in the governments opinion they don't need. A knee jerk reaction to a handful of high profile reports of families getting hundreds of pounds per week for huge mansions in Mayfair and the like.

 

A fairer way of dealing with this would have been to say that the legislation was not going to be retrospective, so from April or whenever this comes into force any new tenants would be subject to the rule, not people that have lived in properties for many years.

[jadeybags]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, housing benefit was never restricted to council or housing association property only, and as far as I can see it still isn't. The 'bedroom tax' focuses solely on how many spare bedrooms the property has, not who happens to own it.

 

The governments justification is why should benefit recipients get subsidised for rooms that in the governments opinion they don't need. A knee jerk reaction to a handful of high profile reports of families getting hundreds of pounds per week for huge mansions in Mayfair and the like.

 

A fairer way of dealing with this would have been to say that the legislation was not going to be retrospective, so from April or whenever this comes into force any new tenants would be subject to the rule, not people that have lived in properties for many years.

 

I understood that to have party already happened? I know here that social housing is no longer for life, no lifetime tenancys, when the home is too big, they move you, like they have always done in Jersey. Here it's only for new tenants. I was lucky to move here 7 yrs ago.

[worried33]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, housing benefit was never restricted to council or housing association property only, and as far as I can see it still isn't. The 'bedroom tax' focuses solely on how many spare bedrooms the property has, not who happens to own it.

 

The governments justification is why should benefit recipients get subsidised for rooms that in the governments opinion they don't need. A knee jerk reaction to a handful of high profile reports of families getting hundreds of pounds per week for huge mansions in Mayfair and the like.

 

A fairer way of dealing with this would have been to say that the legislation was not going to be retrospective, so from April or whenever this comes into force any new tenants would be subject to the rule, not people that have lived in properties for many years.

 

I agree on your last comment, although after how they treated the 25-35 year olds tho then that wouldnt of course have been fair on them. In both cases it shouldnt have been retrospective.

[sillygirl1]

When my sister lived in a two bedroomed council house she had a dining room downstairs that she used as her bedroom, wonder if they would count two living rooms as an 'extra room' instead of just one.

[Feebee_71]

Just seen end of these facebook posts and commented on it that it shouldn't be believed or relief upon but that councils are likely to focus on the number of bedrooms according to the tenancy agreement!!

 

Feebee_71

[id6052]

When my sister lived in a two bedroomed council house she had a dining room downstairs that she used as her bedroom, wonder if they would count two living rooms as an 'extra room' instead of just one.

 

in theory, it is possible they could determine that she has 3 bedrooms

 

in practice, it is unlikely, as most HB departments are likely to work off number of bedrooms in tenancy agreement (i.e. 2) and ignore actually usage

 

out of interest, if she is using dining room as bedroom, what is she using 2 bedrooms for?

[jadeybags]

They definitely go off how many bedrooms the house was built with. My 2 bed is a kinda 3 bed. It has the biggest room with a professional wall & door put down half way, well, a bit more than half way for some reason, so there is a 3rd small room which my son uses, has a built in wardrobe, his bed, a bedside cupboard & chest of drawers. And very little floor in the middle, there is also a window as the biggest bedroom had a window each end. You do have to go through the little room to get to my room though. But when the council owned it & showed me round she said it's classed as a 2 bed. And is a 2 bed rent.

[worried33]

in theory, it is possible they could determine that she has 3 bedrooms

 

in practice, it is unlikely, as most HB departments are likely to work off number of bedrooms in tenancy agreement (i.e. 2) and ignore actually usage

 

out of interest, if she is using dining room as bedroom, what is she using 2 bedrooms for?

 

I agree but if she had a HB visit, they would probably change I reckon to extra bedroom.

[id6052]

I agree but if she had a HB visit, they would probably change I reckon to extra bedroom.

 

i doubt that is true

[worried33]

i doubt that is true

 

Why do you think they would be so leniant?

 

an extra room is an extra room.

[id6052]

Why do you think they would be so leniant?

 

an extra room is an extra room.

 

I am basing my opinion upon discussions I have had with a number of LAs.

 

What is your opinion based upon?

[worried33]

I am basing my opinion upon discussions I have had with a number of LAs.

 

What is your opinion based upon?

 

Real world experience.

 

Some years back a friend of mine had to move because of 2 living rooms. I also have been told by my council thats how they operate, and by the council near my parents.

 

Simply having extra rooms count as living room if allowed is a clear loophole.