SORN Late penalty

[packmule]

I Have received a late penalty notice from Cash Cow Inc (DVLA) which they have now passed to Phillips to collect.

This is for a motorcycle which has been sorn continually for the last 3 yrs. No reminder was received and I only knew when penalty arrived with a sorn form to complete, which was done and sent with accompanying letter explaining. The bike is in pieces and land locked with no possible way onto public land without removing neighbours fences. Still being persued ,will they take me to court for non payment or do I have to take them to court for being incompetant.

 

The bike has not been used or started for 3yrs,It cannot even be started in current state, and it cannot be moved from my garden .

The only "crime " I have committed is to forget ! which as far as iwas aware is not illegal. :mad2:

 

Any advice welcome.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi welcome to CAG, I suppose that the condition of a vehicle that is still registerd (not scrapped) is irrelevant where a SORN is required.

I agree it's hard your right forgetting is not illegal, just the failing to comply with the regs.

 

You could attempt an appeal, but a lot of these fines end up with bailiffs at the door if not paid.

[sailor sam]

I Have received a late penalty notice from Cash Cow Inc (DVLA) which they have now passed to Phillips to collect.

This is for a motorcycle which has been sorn continually for the last 3 yrs. No reminder was received and I only knew when penalty arrived with a sorn form to complete, which was done and sent with accompanying letter explaining. The bike is in pieces and land locked with no possible way onto public land without removing neighbours fences. Still being persued ,will they take me to court for non payment or do I have to take them to court for being incompetant.

 

The bike has not been used or started for 3yrs,It cannot even be started in current state, and it cannot be moved from my garden .

The only "crime " I have committed is to forget ! which as far as iwas aware is not illegal. :mad2:

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Why would they send any reminders out if the bike has been continuously SORNd? Or are you saying that the bike has not been used for over 3 years and you had forgotten to re-SORN it?

 

Can you clarify please!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

SORN for over 3 years not used, SORN forgotten.

[packmule]

Hi Sailor Sam,

The bike has not been used for three years and has been sorn continually upon reciept ot renewal notice.

[sailor sam]

Hi Sailor Sam,

The bike has not been used for three years and has been sorn continually upon reciept ot renewal notice.

 

Ok, I know we will get there in the end... so when did the last SORN expire?

[packmule]

Correct. Tried appeal .waste of time same with MP.

[packmule]

August 2012, new one actually issued in October 2012 after being informed I had not renewed.

But as no renewal was received why would I even think about it . I understand the resoning behind SORN notice but the impementation leaves alot to be desired

[sailor sam]

So it was un-SORNd for 2 months. Hardly the end of the world, in fact in my street there has been a car parked for well over a month with an expired tax disc and gets about 3 parking tickets every day. It is currently showing as SORNd on the DVLA data base! Despite me reporting it about 2 weeks ago, it is still there and attracting more parking tickets!

 

Not sure that there is anyway round it for you as you have even involved your MP. You seem to be one of the innocent people caught out by a system designed to get rid of illegal cars off the roads unfortunately.

[crem]

You seem to be one of the innocent people caught out by a system designed to get rid of illegal cars off the roads unfortunately.

 

... which I suspect constitutes about 99% of the victims of this tax! It was never intended to victimise generally law abiding motorists but has become that to keep the cash cow flowing.

 

When a vehicle is on SORN I believe you should receive a tax reminder after 12 months to tax or SORN again as we all do each year when tax disk is running out. But as ever, the DVLA usually claim they don't have to sned this reminder, but just do it as a courtesy.

 

Then when they don't send one, and the motorist has nothing to prompt them (particularly on a SORN as there is no disk in their car window that they are driving to remind them) they fine you!

[Kiki1]

Apologies, just seen this thread.

 

Packmule, in the past three years of ownership have you had the full 12 months issued to you when applying for SORN ?

 

On three occasions I have found that the renewal covers only 11 months (on two different vehicles), and so you may have been shortchanged by a month through no fault of your own, except maybe by being a tad too keen to notify them.

 

If this is the case then you could challenge the SORN updating in general as - with the same sentiments as Sailor Sam - you are a victim of ill-thought out legislation rather than a criminal trying to 'get away with it'.

[packmule]

Hi all,

still having problems, As a last ditch attempt MP has written to DVLA but as money is involved don't hold out much hope. :-x:-x

 

Started a petition on 10 Downing St but cannot post the link if you wish to sign and try to stop this rip off please feel free.

 

It is petition No. 44601 "Amend SORN rules & DVLA

[renegadeimp]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44601

 

That one?

[packmule]

Thats the one.

Thanks for the link

[renegadeimp]

Add it to your forum signature. That way, wherever you post on this site, people can see it and sign it.

[crem]

Might have been worth doing a bit of background digging on the SORN rules coz I seem to remember when they were discussing them in parliment that they went to great pains to stipulate that "this legislation is not designed to trap the "innocent" motorist that forgets, but the persistant non-payer" or words to that effect.

 

You could then have included this reference within your petition.

 

Clearly, the SORN rules generate the vast majority of their income from exactly the people they said they wouldn't hit!!

Edited January 21, 2013 by crem

[packmule]

Hi Crem,

 

Good idea , Found this so have redone new petition as old one cannot be amended with the new info

 

SORN was designed (House of Lords 14 Nov 2003) “to tracevehicles involved in crime and to trace the keepers of abandoned vehicles, andto help to attack the problem of evasion of vehicle excise duty… The draftregulations will have no effect on law-abiding citizens who license theirvehicles on time and are also not intended to catch those who may, throughoversight or difficulty, buy their tax discs a day or two late…” DVLA amplifiedearly 2004 “the Agency does not intend to persecute honest motorists but tocrack down on offenders who repeatedly abuse system.”

[crem]

looks like my para-phrasing from memory was near enough.

[packmule]

Tried to add to signiture but comes back as invalid file ?

 

New petition No /44742

[crem]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44742

[Borgie]

Hi all,

still having problems, As a last ditch attempt MP has written to DVLA but as money is involved don't hold out much hope. :-x:-x

 

Started a petition on 10 Downing St but cannot post the link if you wish to sign and try to stop this rip off please feel free.

 

It is petition No. 44601 "Amend SORN rules & DVLA

 

Disgusting. Why dont they let people sorn for longer periods, then if they decide to bring it up to road use, they will be informed. All vehicles are tracked on the roadso if you was doing amnythng illegal we would deserve a fine.

Ive signed it as well as shared on Facebook.

[renegadeimp]

Why dont they let people sorn for longer periods, then if they decide to bring it up to road use, they will be informed.

 

Simple. They make very easy money from it.

[The Hooligan]

Packmule. Did you actually forget to notify Sorn or have you just forgotten that you notified them by post?

 

One thing a good many folk would benefit from keeping in mind is something that all insurance companies tell everyone "NEVER ADMIT LIABILITY"

By admitting that you failed to notify then you have closed and bolted the door to any effective defense.

 

In my opinion. If DVLA had not meant this to be a constant revenue stream from the innocent motorist then they would have made it in such a way that if you once notified a vehicle as SORN then that vehicle remains SORN until someone taxes it again for road use or the registered details are altered in some way. (E.G.) vehicle scraped, change of ownership etc under such circumstances the responsibility for the vehicle changes and therefore a new 'OFF ROAD' notification would be required.

If the vehicle is notified as dismantled or otherwise scraped then it's registration is destroyed; if it is exported then it goes through a different procedure; if it has a change of ownership then the new owner is responsible for it's registration and needs to declare it's status.

This would not only be a more logical system but also it would cost less to administer and be more efficient.

 

The big downside to this is that DVLA would loose all the revenue that they gain by bullying and extorting folks under the present system.

[The Hooligan]

BTW petition signed and shared

[packmule]

Hi Hooligan,

 

I didn't forget to SORN, the reminder was not received and as you have no SORN disc or anything unless you write it down on a calender you have no idea when it is due to expire. This is what they rely on for their extra income. The bike was only unsorn for 2 months when bill arrived along with SORN notice it was immediatly SORN , they still come after you for £80 ( 12 months tax is £76 ) The amount of money they make from this is phenominal.

Just another way to fleece the road user.

Thanks for signing and sharing