Welcome Finance CCJ / reasons to set aside

[postggj]

Check out a past board member of cattles plc as well

[msted]

So how does this affect people in our circumstances? I have thought it a bit odd that I had been paying a company other than WF. Does it affect defence and claims?

[postggj]

No

 

All it means is that welcome have delegated the administration of its accounts to IND.

 

Even though IND are a debt collection outfit

 

IND cannot issue default notice/termination, charge any fees etc that are not in the original agreement

 

It just means IND cant issue court claims in their own name unless a notice of assignment has been sent, which is irrelevant as no accounts have been assigned

[Jimmy Jangle]

So we concentrate all fire for now on Welcome, and treat IND as a minor annoyance - am I right?

[postggj]

No

 

Everything through IND except things like an SAR, PPI/charges reclaim etc

 

Anything to do with financial obligations go through IND as they are administering the account

[msted]

Right ok. I'll scrub the bit about notice of assignment then. Although had I received any letter before action from a random company I would not have believed it. Maybe that's the effect they wanted when they send out bulk letters.

 

Hopefully Andy or someone will help me with the final stages of my defence

[postggj]

If welcome are the claimant, the above is irrelevant anyway

[Jimmy Jangle]

Sorry, I mis-stated what I meant.

 

I mean to say, for purposes of defence, etc. we name Welcome as the Claimant (as that's who's on the initial claim)?

[postggj]

In court procedure, you send any documents to either the claimant direct, or the claimants solicitor

 

All correspondents to be relied upon will be on the n1 court claim where to send

 

I will retire now as i do not wish to confuse as Andy is dealing with this

[msted]

Andy, hope this is looking ok now....?

 

1.The Claimant claims for arrears sums due under a fixed sum loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant on xx/xx/xxxx

The Defendant admits that in or about XX/XXX/XXXX she entered into an agreement with the Claimant and which was an agreement regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act), which was a refinance of loan xxxxxxxx, which was a refinance of loan xxxxxx.

 

2.The Defendant failed to pay the contractual installments on time in compliance with the terms of the agreement

The Defendant admits failure to meet the contractual installements due to a change in employment circumstances. The Defendant was under the impression that the PPI would cover payments in such circumstances where the purchaser of the PPI (the Defendant) was unable to meet payments. The PPI did not cover the Defendant’s circumstances, and, aside from inflating the loan to unaffordable proportions, was mis-sold and useless to the Defendant.

 

3.The arrears balance of the unpaid contractual installments as of xx/xx/11 amounts to £xxxxx

The amount the Claimant claims to be entitled to does not take into account all the payments made by the Defendant to the account. The Claimant's claim has neglected to take account of the Defendant's payments totalling £2569.26.

 

4.The term of the agreement expired on xx/xx/09

The Defendant neither confirms nor denies that the loan agreement expired on xx/xx/09. No such notification has been received from the Claimant, and all terms of the agreement provided by the Claimant are illegible.

 

5.The Claimant complied with section III and IV and annex B of the PD pre-action conduct by sending the Defendant a letter before action on xx/xx/13 to which the Defendant failed to respond

It is denied that the Claimant complied with the pre-action conduct. The Defendant did not the noted letter before action on xx/xx/13. The only copies received by the Defendant are those attached to the particulars of claim dated xx/xx/xx. Furthermore, the Claimant stated they would start legal proceedings on xx/xx/xx, when in fact they started legal proceedings on xx/xx/xx (this is -1 day from the date they stated.)

 

The Claimant claims:

6. Fixed sum loan agreement arrears of £xxxxxx

The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim includes the Claimant's 'ad hoc' fees which the Defendant assumes to be administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions, in which case the Claimant's charges bear no relation to the action taken. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant negated to provide such information.

*

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes mis-sold PPI added to the loan account xxxxxx. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant's salesperson and the Defendant present. The PPI was a strict condition of being accepted for the finance. In no way did the Claimant's salesperson make it clear that the PPI was optional, and/or that could be purchased elsewhere if necessary.

 

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes mis-sold additional insurances, and they were added by the Claimant without consulting the Defendant. As an example the Claimant added 'Homecare 24’, to the Defendant's loan which would ‘help immediately in case of a household emergency such as roof damage or plumbing problems’. The Claimant knew the Defendant was not a homeowner, was renting a room in a house, and that such problems would be the responsibly of the Defendant's landlord. The Defendant was already paying for insurance to protect their possessions for such events from another insurer, and had the Defendant been asked whether she wanted to take extra insurance, the Defendant would have declined. For all insurances added, had the Defendant been asked whether she wanted to purchase ANY extra insurance, the Defendant would have declined to take any.

*

The amount detailed in the Claimant's claim includes the unpaid portion of the mis-sold PPI other insurances added to the loan account xxxxxx.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Now start your Part 20 Counter Claim here

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*

 

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Part 20 Counter Claim

1.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims sums paid to the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant in relation to unfair ‘ad hoc fees’ incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant, which are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. These are disproportionate to the action which they relate to. When asked to provide the actual cost of said 'ad hoc' actions by way of a Subject Access Request, the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant did not provide such information.

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2.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims sums paid to Claimant/PT 20 Defendant for loan agreement xxxxxx in relation to mis-sold PPI and other insurances within the sum demanded by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI; the salesperson insisted it was included in the loan and that the loan would not be possible without it. Furthermore, when the insurance was needed to help cover payments, the PPI failed to cover the payments as the sales representative had described they would. The loan paperwork was signed in a closed room with just the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant's salesperson and the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant present. In no way did the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant's salesperson make it clear that the PPI was optional, and/or that could be purchased elsewhere if necessary.

*

3.**** Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant was also mis-sold PPI as per the circumstances described in paragraph 2. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted it was included in the loan and that the loan would not be possible without it.

*

4.**** Loan agreement xxxxxx was a refinance of an older loan agreement xxxxxxxx within which the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant was also mis-sold PPI as per the circumstances described in paragraph 2. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant did not choose PPI, but the salesperson insisted the loan would not be possible without it.*

*

5.**** It is not clear from the paperwork provided by the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant what, if any, PPI rebate was calculated and refunded when the two loan refinances, as noted in paragraphs 3 and 4 above, took place.

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6.**** The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant requests removal of the unpaid portion of PPI and other insurances included within the sum the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant claims to be entitled to.

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And the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant claims:

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a)**** The sum of £303.23 for unfair charges plus compound interest of £109.24 at 42.6% APR to 01/03/2008 plus 8% interest of £176.41 to date of claim.

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b)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £1626.44 plus 8% interest of £519.97 to date of claim.

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c)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £701.68 plus 8% interest of £458.96 to date of claim.

*

d)**** PPI (and other insurances) reclaim for agreement xxxxxx totalling £219.97 plus 8% interest of £161.03 to date of claim.

*

e)**** PPI and insurance rebate with reference to the two loan refinances as above, or calculations to prove otherwise.

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f)***** Removal of the unpaid portion of PPI and insurances included within the sum the Claimant/PT 20 Defendant claims to be entitled to. The Defendant/PT 20 Claimant, to the best of her ability, estimates this sum to be £1503.46, and, as such, would like to ask the court to make the calculation with a greater degree of accuracy.

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g)**** Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum until judgement or payment.

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h)**** Costs in the case (Small Claims Track).

 

 

Statement of Truth

I, the Defendant/PT 20 Claimant believe that the facts stated in this Defence and Counter claim are true.

 

 

Dated xxxxxx

[AndyOrch]

Remove the Red Highlighted you dont include the Claimants particulars in your defence......I only do that for guidance when you are drafting it so you know what you are referring to.

 

Andy

[msted]

Hi Andy yes I will remove that when I finalise my document. I have it in word so will do that when I format it and add my personal details.

 

Is everything else ok?

When I send, do I also include all my calculations for the cc parts?

I send a copy each to court and claimant?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy yes I will remove that when I finalise my document. I have it in word so will do that when I format it and add my personal details.

 

Is everything else ok? Looks ok only you are ware of the detail and dispute..but lay out is fine..dont forget the header Claimant V Defendant...Claim Number/Court Address.

When I send, do I also include all my calculations for the cc parts? Yes as an exhibit so refer to it in your CC ( IE As per EXHIB xx)

I send a copy each to court and claimant?

Yes

[msted]

Ok excellent, off to the post office then!

 

Thanks so much

[msted]

Just so I know what to expect, does claimant/pt 20 def have 14 days to defend the cc? Then does the judge decide what happens next?

 

I guess I will have to stump up more cash for the next steps too? Hope it's worth it!

[AndyOrch]

Yes they have 14 days to issue a defence/response.

[msted]

Hi, I need some very urgent help. My defence, pt 20 and payment has been returned as I needed to submit everything with form n9b.

 

Do I Dispute the full amount?

[AndyOrch]

Hi, I need some very urgent help. My defence, pt 20 and payment has been returned as I needed to submit everything with form n9b.

 

Do I Dispute the full amount?

Only if you disagree with the amount.....remember that any partial admittance will will result in a CCJ....otherwise defend all.

[msted]

If I defend all, and it turns out I still owe them, I won't get in extra trouble will I?

 

I owe them a wee bit. They owe me a truck load in PPI. So they owe me.

 

Sorry for panic, I have to take this to court this arvo

[AndyOrch]

If I defend all, and it turns out I still owe them, I won't get in extra trouble will I? Not really you lose and have to pay the summons and their costs

 

I owe them a wee bit. They owe me a truck load in PPI. So they owe me. (only if a DJ agrees so as it stands you owe them)

 

Sorry for panic, I have to take this to court this arvo

 

Andy

[msted]

So defend all and pay if necessary is better than admitting and paying right now.

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Admitting is a form a of acceptance/agreement and a guaranteed instant CCJ

[msted]

Called the court today for an update. I thought that the pt 20 defendant had only 14 days plus service to submit a defence. Court says no pt 20 defence received, and are not legally trained to advise whether time is up for welcome or if they have longer to reply.

 

Is it a strict 14 days, or could it be that the court would be lenient with them? Or is it 28 days?

 

All I have had is a change of solicitor letter, and a letter of proposed allocation to SCT.

 

Thanks