Arrow Claimforn - EGG debt **Claim Discontinued**

[G2M]

Hi All,

 

Arrow submitted a claim to CC in Feb '12;

 

Particulars of claim

 

The claimants claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

 

The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under account number ******* but has failed to do so.

 

And the claimant claims the sum of ****.**

 

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to S.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to 0.00

 

My original defence was;

 

The defendant has minimal knowledge of the amount claimed by the

claimant and requires strict proof thereof.

 

The claimant refuses to use the defendants new address, despite a

letter informing them of my new address, I believe this is an

abuse of court process.

 

A CCA request has already been sent on 02/03/2012 - and still

remains unfulfilled by the claimant, thus bringing the account

into dispute.

 

Documents relied on in the claim were not produced with the claim

so a CPR request, which also remains unfulfilled was sent to them

on 02/03/2012, as they should have had this paperwork prior to the

claim NO extension to produce the required paperwork should be

allowed.

 

The case proceeded and aq's were received and a call with mediation took place. I stated in section G of the Ag's that "without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence."

 

The court then made an written order that Arrow file and serve:

 

i) copy of the credit agreement and any document referred to within it;

ii) default notice;

iii) evidence of assignment

iv) notice of assignment

v) first and last pages of the statement of account relied upon

 

They missed the deadline so I wrote requesting it be struck out, the court extended the deadline by another month, they missed this too so I wrote again, this time the court issued an unless order. I have now received some paperwork from Arrow as below;

 

 

1) The internet application form which forms the agreement (I'm sure it's nothing like an agreement, it has no date, no signature etc, happy to post it up)

 

2) Statements covering 1 year

 

3) A template NoA assigning from Egg to Barclays

 

4)Reconstituted NoA from Barclays to Arrow.

 

The letter also said they are still waiting for the Default Notice, but are confident it's forthcoming.

 

The court has now ordered;

 

1) The defence stand struck out as disclosing no reasonable ground for defending the claim;

 

2) Time to file an adequate defence extended to........

 

3) Defendant to state whether he admits or denies claim in whole or part and if denied state why.

 

 

In summary, they are still in default of my CCA request, there is no default notice nor proper agreement. As far as I can see they have not complied properly with the 'Unless Order' yet my defence now stands struck out.

 

How can I defend properly when I still need the documents I originally asked for at the start of the claim. I'm stuck as to what direction to take now and would really appreciate some help.

 

Many Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi G2M

 

Maybe if you could post up the latest Order received (scan and remove any identifiable data) then we can see what options are open in progressing this matter.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[G2M]

Thanks Andy, hopefully this has worked.

[AndyOrch]

Ok prompted by the ordered compliance of disclosure the Court has made this decision of its own initiative (not the Claimant).

 

You will now have to re submit a fully particularised defence in response to the disclosure..should you wish to continue to defend.The alternative is to make application to vary ...stay or set a side on the grounds that what they have disclosed is invalid...but I personally think the particularised defence would be a better option.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[G2M]

Thanks, but I'm not sure what my defence would be, it's basically the same as before, that is I do not acknowledge any debt to them and need the documents they rely on. How can I defend properly without all the information they were supposed to supply?

 

Could I not object in the first instance on the grounds that they have failed to comply with the Unless Order then submit another defence if this fails?

[AndyOrch]

Then follow point 3 of the order...irrespective if the paperwork conforms or not...as I state on most threads were a defence is required dont use none disclosure as a reason of defence.You have to have disputes or reasons to back up any defence.

Your previous defence has now been removed.

 

There may be reasons with what they have disclosed but a defence needs a little more than that to carry merit.Irrespective of the assignment is the debt yours? Was there a problem when it was with the OC or Barclay's?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[havinastella]

When was the account opened?

[G2M]

Opened in 2004 if I recall correctly.

 

So my defence would be Ac still in dispute due to non compliance with my cca request? Also, I never signed an application form as it was an Internet application with a tick box for signature, as I understand it this is not enforceable as it was done before December 2004?

[AndyOrch]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/contents/made

[G2M]

Sorry for my ignorance, is there a specific point I should be looking at in that link? I've gone through it and can't see anything relevant thus far?

[AndyOrch]

Oops wrong link try this one Electronic Agreements:-

 

http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file23061.pdf

[Bandit127]

Cheers Andy.... 500 words of advice based on post #9 erased and replaced by this meagre lot...

 

[G2M]

Thanks, from what I've read an electronic signature before 31/12/04 is unenforceable.

 

I'm still not sure how to defend it now, essentially nothing has changed since they lodged the claim.

 

They're in breach of an unless order and yet the court deems fit to ignore that and give them yet more time to get the paperwork they rely on, the whole purpose of the unless order was to give them a deadline to supply it.

[AndyOrch]

Cheers Andy.... 500 words of advice based on post #9 erased and replaced by this meagre lot...

 

 

I put the original link back Bandit...calm down dear:madgrin:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thanks, from what I've read an electronic signature before 31/12/04 is unenforceable.

 

I'm still not sure how to defend it now, essentially nothing has changed since they lodged the claim.

 

They're in breach of an unless order and yet the court deems fit to ignore that and give them yet more time to get the paperwork they rely on, the whole purpose of the unless order was to give them a deadline to supply it.

 

If they have failed to satisfy the order " in your opinion " then that becomes the basis of your defence. Im not sure when your defence needs to be submitted by but if you bring forward the Particulars of Claim I will show you how to draft a defence without either admittance or denial but it wont be until early next week now G2M.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[G2M]

Thanks Andy, I have attached (hopefully) some of the relevant info, would appreciate your views.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39807[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39804[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39805[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39808[/ATTACH]-Letter sent to the court in response to the Unless order, they admit to not complying in it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]39806[/ATTACH]-This is what they sent as my credit agreement, as far as I can tell they are still in breach of my CCA request?

 

Thanks again for any help.

[AndyOrch]

What date is your defence due to be submitted G2M?

 

Andy

[G2M]

What date is your defence due to be submitted G2M?

 

Andy

 

 

14th. Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Plenty of time yet then just bump your thread at the beginning of next week.

 

Andy

[G2M]

Thanks Andy...bumped

[G2M]

Will try and get this done today so I can post tomorrow.

 

I have these points to base my defence on;

 

They are still in breach of my CCA request from March

I have had no default notice to date nor credit agreement

They are still in breach of the unless order, so it should have been struck out as per that order

 

I assume by particularised they mean a summary for each point.

[AndyOrch]

Not forgot you G2M will take a look shortly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[G2M]

Thanks Andy, appreciate it, was just looking at it now.

[AndyOrch]

Particulars of claim

 

1.The claimants claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

 

2.The defendant agreed to pay monthly instalments under account number ******* but has failed to do so.

 

And the claimant claims the sum of ****.**

 

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to S.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to 0.00

 

Defence

 

 

1.Paragraph 1 is neither admitted or denied the Claimant has failed to disclose the relevant documentation upon which this claim is based upon.

2.Paragraph 2 is not admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the Claimant as the Defendant did not enter into any Agreement with the Claimant.

3. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

6.. Further, by reason of the fact that there is no document which has been signed by the Defendant containing a correct statement of the amount of the credit under the Agreement, and by reason of Section 127(3) of the Act, the Court has no power to make an enforcement order in respect of the Agreement because a term stating the amount of the credit is a prescribed term for the purposes of Sections 61(1)(a) and 127(3), prescribed by the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, regulation 6(1) and paragraph 2 of Schedule 6.

 

7 The Claimant remains in default of a section 78 request dated xxxxxxxx and also in default of an Unless Order dated xxxxx in which the DJ Mr xxxxxxxx requested disclosure of original documentation:-

 

i) copy of the credit agreement and any document referred to within it;

ii) default notice;

iii) evidence of assignment

iv) notice of assignment

v) first and last pages of the statement of account relied upon

 

8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Ok G2m you will need to add the Header and Statement of truth.... complete the xxxxxxxx.File with the Claimant and Court.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[G2M]

Many thanks Andy, much appreciated.