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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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most of my income support being given to british gas/severn trent. help!!


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They didn't make me get it, but I jumped before I was pushed. as far as your landlord goes, if if doesn't like them he can have them changed back at the end of your tenancy, but most landlords I know prefer them anyway - it means they don't have tenants running out on huge bills. Our boiler is not new, but it's not ancient either - about 10 years old i'd say.

"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

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ok, do you know if the gas meters are overpriced. i do know some one who has meters for both and has her tumble dryer on 24/7 so can't be that expensive! there seems to be alot of posts on here about problems with meters.

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You can get dual fuel meters and while they are mire expensive they really do focus the mind on what you use. For example you don't keep the hot water on all day,you turn down radiators in empty rooms. If both your children are young could they share a room.

As for grants look at http://www.turn2us.org

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Hi Graceava

 

This may sound like a silly question.

Has your loft been insulated?

Around 43% of you heat loss is through the roof.

Also with your landlords permission you could apply to the Warmfrount scheme and possibly get a new High efficiency Boiler,

This would benefit you and the landlord.

I believe warmfrount do the loft insulation also.

 

 

Leakie

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Oh, bingo! Leakie's right, I totally forgot about the warm front boiler scheme! definitely have a look at that, because you'll be amazed at the difference a new boiler makes.

"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

If I've been helpful, please click my star. :oops:

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Thanks for replies, im 99% sure the landlord said insulation was done just before we moved in but ill ask.

I am actually looking for a smaller house, the kids do share a room so the 3rd room isn't used. Its one of those 50's double fronted council houses so we have a dining room and all the rooms are large. Im looking for a smalll 2 bed which will help with the bills.

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When i suggested the kids could share it was meant as a money saving idea and not as a must do. Obviously as they get older they will want and possibly need their own room. Have you tried to get into social housing?

Going back to the deductions have you got any definite breakdown of what is for what? I know that seven Trent asked for a deduction of my benefit and it was refused.

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im still trying to get anyone from either BG or income support to give me straight answer as to what is paying debt and usage. they are both saying that its the others ones resposibility! BG are saying its nothing to do with them and its an agreement between me and IS and IS are saying the exact opposite!

it says on the warm front scheme that it is only available in england?

i am on council/housing association lists but there is a severe shortage of housing in my area.

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Ok we have progress!

Income support have canceled the payments and british gas are willing to work out a paymant plan with me. They are pressuring me to have meters but im really not sure. I don't want to be paying a penny more than i do now!

Any advice on how to sort out a reasonable payment plan with bg?

Last time i spoke to them we came to an agreement of 100 by direct debit a month,20 of that was towards the debt. But they were trying to get me to agree to sums of 200-250 a month.

With a direct debit can they take more out of my account without any notice?

Is a stasnding order better?

Thanks for all the help!

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I have asked both BG and IS how much of the payments are for debt and how much are for usage but no one will tell me. I have worked out my last 12 months of bills for gas and electric and it averages out at £67 a month. i am very careful with my gas and electric. So i can't see how only 3.55 is for the debt as i am not usage doesn't cover the rest. Is it possible someone has made a mistake somewhere when working it out? Or just put my usage as the average for a 3 bed house?

Arn't the pay as you go meters notoriously expensive? I have lived in a flat with one about

7 yrs ago and we were putting at least a £5 in a day. That was on electric with storage heaters.

 

Have I or have I not made that completely clear? It is £3.55 towards your debt each week. There are no exceptions. It is £3.55 a week. If someone from British Gas cannot explain that then they are very poor at their job, same as whoever works for the DWP.

 

It is entirely possible someone has got your usage wrong, depending upon how they arrived at that figure? One of your statements will give you a breakdown of what you have used in a 12 month period and it will say 'We expect you will use X' in the next 12 months. The person should divide that by 52 and fill that in as the figure for you application. They CANNOT specify the amount towards the arrears, it isn't physically impossible on the form they complete. That's a fact.

 

Yeah ive heard that storage heaters are expensive. and the flat was boiling at night and freezing during the day!

how did you end up getting the meter? did they make you get it?

i don't mind having a meter if there not more expensive but im worried about my landlord and if they would mind. i don't really want to tell them im in any trouble with bills as they are freinds with my ex's family and i know they will all end up gossiping about it (small town!)

do ypu have a newish boiler or an old one?

 

Your Landlord doesn't need to know to be honest. If it ever did get out, say it helps you with your budgeting as a monthly direct debit wasn't working for you as it was leaving you short some weeks.

 

ok, do you know if the gas meters are overpriced. i do know some one who has meters for both and has her tumble dryer on 24/7 so can't be that expensive! there seems to be alot of posts on here about problems with meters.

 

No, they are normally fractionally cheaper than a normal standard quarterly bill, only fractions of pence (though marginally dearer than a direct debit), see this link and put in your postcode;

 

http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products-and-services/gas-and-electricity/our-energy-tariffs/clear-and-simple/clear-and-simple-rates.html

 

People complaining about the costs of the meters are those who have arrears on them set at a high figure towards the debt. They will set it at £3.55 a week towards your balance if you are on means tested benefits.

 

Ok we have progress!

Income support have canceled the payments and british gas are willing to work out a paymant plan with me. They are pressuring me to have meters but im really not sure. I don't want to be paying a penny more than i do now!

Any advice on how to sort out a reasonable payment plan with bg?

Last time i spoke to them we came to an agreement of 100 by direct debit a month,20 of that was towards the debt. But they were trying to get me to agree to sums of 200-250 a month.

With a direct debit can they take more out of my account without any notice?

Is a stasnding order better?

Thanks for all the help!

 

British Gas should not be looking at a payment plan for you if you can have a pay as you go meter.

 

Look at the link I posted above (please note that you will not get the direct debit price if you set up a direct debit with them as that is based on customers with no outstanding balance).

 

Yes, with a direct debit they are in control and they do look at them twice a year, they can jump massively either way, normally up at this time of year.

 

My advice would be to look at your statements, one of them should have an annual usage figure on (normally one in 4 statements do), divide that by 52 as your average usage to give you an idea of your average spend. Then get a pay as you go meter, you will use a lot less energy.

 

Oh, off your circumstances and the age of the children in your house you should get the 'Warm Homes Discount' from them, it is £130 this year that is placed onto your electric account as a credit between January and March. You must register by New Years Eve!

 

As said previously, expect to be kicked back by the trust fund, I'm not being harsh, just honest.

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The advice to look at statements is only relevant IF you are on a monthly budget direct debit. If you pay your bill on arrival you will not get those but maybe the info is available online. Most debt charities state that prepayment IS more expensive however i grant you it seems that the figures do seem reasonable.

I am pleased you also concede that maybe the usage is wrong.

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CLIMATE, i know you say it is not possible for the arrears to be higher than 3.55 a week but the fact is my usage is no where near the weekly payments.

so do i have a choice about having a meter or not if i am offering a to pay?

do i have to pay to have them fitted?

when i leave this property will they change them back to the meters that are here now? (or similar)

will the payment towards the debt definatley be 3.55 a week and not half of every 5 i put into the meter? (i have heard of these kind of charges on meters)

is it possible to get british gas to tell me the exact cost of the gas and elec in units compared to what i pay now?

im just going to read the link now climate so sorry if the answers are in there!

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westfiel, they have taken 80 out so far and BG have said they have not recieved it yet.

also another thing i need to check is money i have paid on payment plan cards which is not showing on my bills as poid. the only proof i have of this is bank statements.

also does anyone know if BG does a social tarriff or something similar?

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Hi Graceava

 

I have had a PPM for electric for a month now.

 

The rate is cheaper because they charge a standing charge each day,

this is meant to even it out if you were on a standard tariff.

 

I have £6.98 a week taken off the amount of credit I put in the PPM

I am paying back at £5.00 a week.

Plus what I have used.

 

I found it hard to understand at first but now no probs.

 

Obviously you will be putting in more credit in the winter months but not so much in th summer months.

 

I hope this helps a bit

 

Leakie

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They should refund the standing charge annually, shouldn't they? I'm sure that i've had it re-credited to my key in the past.

"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

If I've been helpful, please click my star. :oops:

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CLIMATE, i know you say it is not possible for the arrears to be higher than 3.55 a week but the fact is my usage is no where near the weekly payments.

so do i have a choice about having a meter or not if i am offering a to pay?

do i have to pay to have them fitted?

when i leave this property will they change them back to the meters that are here now? (or similar)

will the payment towards the debt definatley be 3.55 a week and not half of every 5 i put into the meter? (i have heard of these kind of charges on meters)

is it possible to get british gas to tell me the exact cost of the gas and elec in units compared to what i pay now?

im just going to read the link now climate so sorry if the answers are in there!

 

You have a choice to some extent. If you have had 2 failed payment schemes such as direct debits you will not be offered another. You could do Fuel Direct where it comes from your benefits, that's the limit of your options to be honest.

 

They will fit meters for you free at your current stage, if they obtain a warrant you would be charged and it's over £250 per meter.

 

It would only be £3.55 a week towards your outstanding balance if on means tested benefits. So you could stick £100 on, it will take the standing charge each day, your usage and £3.55 each week towards the debt. It's done each week, not each top up.

 

Bear in mind if you go away for weeks anything you put on goes towards the recovery rate first, same with using emergency credit but if you pay each week it will only take £3.55 towards the balance each week.

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They should refund the standing charge annually, shouldn't they? I'm sure that i've had it re-credited to my key in the past.

 

No.

 

You may have got the warm homes discount which is a credit placed onto your meter for 'vulnerability' issues.

 

You can thank OFGEM for the daily charge thing, they said bills had to be 'clearer' although it was easy enough in my eyes already. Now, if you have a meter with ZERO usage you will pay for it (excludes existing contracts which must be honoured!). OFGEM really are complete donuts.

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No, definitely no vulnerability issues. how strange..i'll have to look into what that was. I know we were with edf at the time.

"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me". Martin Niemöller

 

"A vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history". - Terry Pratchett

 

If I've been helpful, please click my star. :oops:

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ok, so how much is the standing charge? and it literally means you are being charged even if there is nothing being used?

i have now registered with BG gas online and have just checked my latest bill. it is for 42 days.

117.27 gas

66.17 electric.

considering i have never used anything near this in the whole time i have lived in this house how can it be so much? it is actual as they came to read my meter. i havn't even had the heating on that much because it's been quite mild.

have they made a mistake? i have just looked on my history and between 1st august 2011 and 28th of august 2012 i used a total of 783 of gas and electric so how could i have used that much in 42 days?

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ok i have just looked into all my history on BG website and i have made a huge mistake. i moved into this house in august 2011, my ex left in feb 2012. i rang up BG to change name on bill and the account had some arrears. the bloke on the phone said he would start me a new account and to 'he would sort the old bills out'. i didn't really know what he meant but it looks like he has cleared all the debit from 1st august to 25th feb 2011. maybe he felt sorry for me as he knew i was on my own with a newborn and 15month old or maybe it was a mistake?

so this changes everything, i have now worked out my monthly usage as 115 for gas and elec. the house is always bloody freezing so this seems a lot. this still makes the latest bill over the average.

climate, is it possible that he just wiped the debt?

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