Fair Evasion Prosecution Advice - responding to an initial letter - ** RECEIVED OFFER TO SETTLE **

[Devo'd]

Hi all

 

Sorry a bit long winded all this.

 

Thanks in advance for taking the time to look at this thread. I'll give you a brief overview of the situation and then just a couple of questions if anyone could advise further that would be great.

 

I was recently stopped at my destination station without a ticket for my journey. I was in a rush for the train that night and as a result did not purchase a ticket before I travelled (there are plenty of ticket machines etc at this station). On the train no ticket conductor came around and it completely slipped my mind to by a ticket. I was stopped as I was leaving my destination station and questioned under caution by a ticket inspector. I gave an honest account of the situation but didn't quite realise the seriousness of the situation at the time. When asked how I intended to pay for my journey at the end of the interview I initially said "i guess I wouldn't have bought one" but then asked that the statement be changed to "I wouldn't have been able too".

 

The inspector said I would receive a letter in 2-3 weeks and I am currently waiting for this letter which I understand will probably propose their intention to convict me in court (almost certainly of fare evasion) and ask me to respond.

 

I am clearly in the wrong here and now fully understand the seriousness of my actions. I work in the NHS and I am really worried about the potential impact this will have on my career if it go's to court.

 

As a result I contacted a solicitor who advised to wait for the initial letter and then respond with a letter apologising for the incident and pointing out my previous good character and the potential damage of any court appearance given my position.

 

Being worried sick I have spent the day trawling the forums for any advice on composing a suitable letter and have one formulated in preparation.

 

One of my main concerns is that the solicitor has advised me not to dwell on the offence only to apologise for it, in the risk that I will further incriminate myself should I decide to defend myself in court. As far as I can tell the letter will ask for my version of events and as such I have detailed them exactly as I described to the ticket officer and described it as an error on my part. I have then gone on to apologise, point out the potential damage of court proceedings and make an offer to cover any penalties + costs involved.

 

I know I am trying to second guess the not very exact science of writing these letters but should I leave out any reference to the event and stick with the apology etc ??? Or should I leave this part in given that it is the information I provided during interview ??

 

My instinct is that any damage has already been done when giving my initial statement and as such a further explanation of the reasons I had not bought a ticket won't help but won't do me any harm either.

 

I'm guessing the main bit of advice here will be too wait to see what the letter says but I can't stop worrying about this and just want to feel prepared for the worst should it arise.

 

Thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear you have problems.

 

I'm sure the guys will be along when they can, but as it's half term we're a bit thin on the ground, please bear with us. As you say, you have time:

 

I'm guessing the main bit of advice here will be too wait to see what the letter says but I can't stop worrying about this and just want to feel prepared for the worst should it arise.

 

Indeed, this is the usual advice, but the industry guys may have other comments for you. Please bear with us until they get here. I think one aspect they may be able to advise on is how to explain the effect on your career, for instance, and how much information to give.

 

My best, HB

[firstclassx]

As a result I contacted a solicitor who advised to wait for the initial letter and then respond with a letter apologising for the incident and pointing out my previous good character and the potential damage of any court appearance given my position.

 

That is good, (presumably free), advice from the solicitor. At the moment it is really the ONLY advice available.

 

The only bit to add is that you will probably need to offer to pay their administrative costs, which, depending on the Operator, may run into several hundred £. (First Capital Connect probably wanting the most).

 

It is important to remember that not all cases are settled this way, and some Train Operators will always favour prosecution, particularly TfL.

 

This is a serious offence, so if you cannot convince them to avoid court, you will be facing Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889. With a guilty plea, probably a fine of around £350, costs of £100 and a surcharge of around £35. The maximum penalty is £1000 or 3 months inside prison, but these will not be relevant for you, unless you've done it before.

 

You would have a criminal record, which, usually, you are contractually bound to disclose this to your employer. It is an offence of dishonesty, so you may face disciplinary action.

 

If you work in a care home, school, hospital, police, bank etc, then you may be barred from those professions.

 

After 6-7 years the conviction becomes "spent" so you would only need declare the conviction in very specific circumstances after 2019.

 

It would complicate, but not necessarily prevent, your ability to travel to America, Australia etc.

 

==Questions==

What Train Operating Company is responsible?

How much was the fare avoided?

Have you done this before or had Penalty Fare(s) etc?

Where you fully co-operative when questioned?

 

I'm really busy at the moment, so one of the other regulars may be able to assist if I can't.

Edited October 30, 2012 by firstclassx

[RPI]

To give an idea of outcome and costs please let us know the operator and the journey involved, by PM if you dont feel happy posting on the forum.

[honeybee13]

Hello RPI, nice to see you.

 

Just to remind people that newbies can't PM until they have 30 posts. But they can PM site team if it's necessary.

 

HB

[Devo'd]

Hi guys thanks for the early response

 

Firstclassx - In my letter I have offered to pay the 'fare, penalty and costs' and in truth would be happy to pay whatever to avoid going to court but I have avoided quoting a figure based on previous threads. Thanks for the details regarding possible penalties and future ramifications of my actions. After looking into the matter I had some awareness of these factors hence my level of concern and constant worry.

 

In answer to the other questions

 

The train company was East Coast but the revenue protection officer was from East Midlands trains.

 

The fare avoided was £8.20

 

I haven't done this before and not had any penalty fares.

 

I was fully co-operative when questioned and have pointed this out in my draft letter.

 

RPI - Have posted you a separate e-mail regarding the exact journey details.

 

Thanks

[Devo'd]

Hi RPI

 

Details of journey now posted to honeybee.

[honeybee13]

...and forwarded.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Good advice so far, and good on the OP for accepting they have made a mistake, not trying to obfuscate, and looking to mitigate "the damage" while accepting their responsibility for their error.

 

One correction to a comment above : if the OP works in the NHS and requires an Enhanced CRB, likely their role is one exempt from the Rehab of Offenders legislation, so whilst a S5.3 RRA conviction would become "spent" : it would still have to be declared for that employment / show on an Enhanced CRB

 

That said:

1) for a single "out of character" / "unintentional error" I'd hope an employer would factor in your previous character & service,

2) you could highlight to the TOC when seeking an 'alternative disposal' that you don't underestimate the gravity of what you have done, but ask them to consider if the effect on your career would be proportionate or disproportionate

 

As you've already heard (and stated yourself) : await their letter.

 

It seems to me you've already looked around and have a good idea what your letter should say (and what it shouldn't : you aren't trying to deflect blame). The letter should be in your own words, avoiding phrases that "look like they've been taken from a stock letter from the Internet ", but you have the key concepts : apology to the firm & its staff, out of character, error thinking would pay on train / at destination, offer to pay fare & costs, disproportionate effect of conviction : all done as contrition, rather than "I can buy myself out of trouble"

 

I'd suggest once you receive the letter, posting here what act or bylaw they are considering proceeding under, and a draft of your reply for the industry experts (OCJa, firstclassx, RPI et al.) to comment ..... Also please let us know the outcome?

[Devo'd]

Thanks Bazza

 

Thanks for the further information. I realise that the offence would show up on any enhanced CRB when working in the NHS and as a result this could have a pretty catastrophic effect on my current career. Trying to be pragmatic about it but finding it difficult at the moment, still my own fault.

 

The letter I have drafted includes all the elements you have mentioned and while I did take some guidance from letters posted on here and elsewhere I have tailored it to my particular situation and added + taken away as necessary.

 

I will await the letter and post the act or bylaw stated. If one of the industry experts can spare the time to comment on a draft letter at this point I would be eternally grateful.

[firstclassx]

It might be worth having an (informal) chat with a supervisor/manager who you get on well with and just explain what is going on. At least you can use your transparency as a defence in any disciplinary.

 

You don't want the first thing you tell them about it all, is that you need an afternoon off to attend court and answer the summons.

 

Are you in a Union? If so, you may be able to get free (or cheaper) legal assistance if you need to attend court.

 

If you PM me the letter I will have a read over it, but I can only guide you so far, it needs to be a genuine, heartfelt letter, which only you can write!

[honeybee13]

Hi guys.

 

Advice by PM is not recommended or normally necessary. This is for everyone's protection. RPI thought it might be helpful to know the journey details, but now we know the TOC name, which should be enough to advise.

 

Devo'd we see lots of draft letters on the forums for scrutiny by forum members, including the legal ones. Please post it up without personal details and you'll be fine.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

I second the suggestion by HB that it is normally only necessary to consider which TOC is involved. There is a fair bit of inconsistency in the way that the various rail companies handle these matters at present.

 

If we know which TOC is involved, a fair assessment of likely action can be given.

 

Firstclassx has outlined the worst case scenario facing a first offender. I would not be at all concerned by that until you receive a letter from the actual TOC involved and then you will know exactly what has been alleged and the reference given to your particular case

 

Once that information is to hand, you will know who to contact and about what and then we can perhaps make considered suggestions as to how you can best help yourself.

[Devo'd]

Thanks all. All your advice is very gratefully received so far. It would seem pertinent to wait for the letter before posting any possible reply. Although I have drafted one based on the worst possible scenario in an attempt to feel I am being proactive. I will wait and see what the postman brings and fill you in on the details + post my draft letter for advice as required.

[honeybee13]

Thanks all. All your advice is very gratefully received so far. It would seem pertinent to wait for the letter before posting any possible reply. Although I have drafted one based on the worst possible scenario in an attempt to feel I am being proactive. I will wait and see what the postman brings and fill you in on the details + post my draft letter for advice as required.

 

Good idea. Please keep us posted and come back if you have other questions. Fingers crossed for you.

 

HB

[Devo'd]

Well the letter was waiting for me when I arrived back from work tonight.

 

East Midlands trains are dealing with the incident. It informs me that the matter has been reported to their office and I have typed up the following paragraph.

 

"All the evidence available is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate. If you consider that there are further mitigating factors that may influence any decision that may be made about this matter you are invited to respond, in writing only, within 14 days of the date of this letter." ......

 

and finally

 

"Additional correspondence may incur departmental costs."

 

 

 

Would anyone be willing to take a look at my response ??

Do people think it's wise to post it on the forum or should I just go with what I have knowing that it covers the main points?? I'm slightly worried about the team at East Midlands Trains viewing the letter online and viewing it as a bit cheeky and insincere seeking guidance on how to phrase the letter and thus harming my chances of settling out of court ?? I realise the chances of this are slim but you never know ??

 

Ahhhhhh constant worry.

[Old-CodJA]

Well the letter was waiting for me when I arrived back from work tonight.

 

East Midlands trains are dealing with the incident. It informs me that the matter has been reported to their office and I have typed up the following paragraph.

 

"All the evidence available is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate. If you consider that there are further mitigating factors that may influence any decision that may be made about this matter you are invited to respond, in writing only, within 14 days of the date of this letter." ......

 

and finally

 

"Additional correspondence may incur departmental costs."

 

 

 

Would anyone be willing to take a look at my response ??

Do people think it's wise to post it on the forum or should I just go with what I have knowing that it covers the main points?? I'm slightly worried about the team at East Midlands Trains viewing the letter online and viewing it as a bit cheeky and insincere seeking guidance on how to phrase the letter and thus harming my chances of settling out of court ?? I realise the chances of this are slim but you never know ??

 

Ahhhhhh constant worry.

 

 

Yes, I'm happy to look at your response, but please make sure that you delete all details from which, you, the reporting inspector and the actual incident can be identified.

 

It isn't necessary for us to know these things. All we need is to know what you said in response to the inspectors' questioning.

 

Factually, if you travelled from a station with facilities to by a ticket and did not do so, the TOC have a case for prosecution of breach of National Railway Byelaw 18.1 [2005] whether or not you intended to pay.

 

What you said or did will determine whether they have a case for charging you with 'intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act [1889]

 

The extract that you have posted from their letter does not appear to suggest that they have specified a charge yet.

 

Your Solicitor does appear to have given excellent advice, I think they are most likely to charge with the breach of Byelaw, which is the less serious offence, but is very much harder to defend. The legislation says that you must pay your fare before boarding any train.

 

I suggest that you offer an unequivocal apology to the rail company and staff concerned for your out of character actions and give an undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future. Explain that a conviction for this one-off lapse of attention would have a wholly disproportionate effect on your future career and continued employment in your present post, because a completely clean CRB check is an essential pre-requisite of your employer.

 

Offer to pay any outstanding fare and all of the administration costs reasonably incurred by the rail company.

[Devo'd]

Hi old-codJA

 

As you have pointed out no charge was specified in the letter.

 

My response to the inspectors questioning was as follows .....

 

Why didn't you but a ticket at your station of origin ?

 

I was in a rush after a meeting at work and didn't have time to buy one at the station, I intended to buy one on the train instead.

 

Why didn't you but one on the train ?

 

No conductor came around so I didn't have an opportunity too.

 

Were you sat down on the train ?

 

Yes

 

How would you paid for the fare for the journey you've made today ?

 

I guess I wouldn't been able too ? (I then asked to change this answer too) I wouldn't have been able too.

 

Thats about the long and short of it i'm afraid, I didn't really do myself any favors when answering the questions but felt pretty stressed about the whole situation.

[Devo'd]

Sorry, for the last question I initially answered "I guess I wouldn't have done"

[Old-CodJA]

Hi old-codJA

 

As you have pointed out no charge was specified in the letter.

 

My response to the inspectors questioning was as follows .....

 

Why didn't you but a ticket at your station of origin ?

 

I was in a rush after a meeting at work and didn't have time to buy one at the station, I intended to buy one on the train instead.

 

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage and National Railway Byelaws make clear that it is the travellers responsibility to make time to get a ticket before travelling where facilities are available.

 

Why didn't you but one on the train ?

 

No conductor came around so I didn't have an opportunity too.

 

If boarding at a station where there are no ticket issuing facilities, it is always the travellers' responsibility to seek out an opportunity to declare the journey and to pay the fare.

 

Were you sat down on the train ?

 

Yes

 

There is an Appeal Court ruling that determined that any traveller who knows that a fare is due, but boards a train without paying and intends to wait to be asked to pay before doing so, may be considered to be intending to avoid that fare unless challenged

 

How would you paid for the fare for the journey you've made today ?

 

I guess I wouldn't been able too ? (I then asked to change this answer too) I wouldn't have been able too.

 

That is never acceptable as a defence because there were at least two opportunities available to you to pay before being questioned.

 

Thats about the long and short of it i'm afraid, I didn't really do myself any favors when answering the questions but felt pretty stressed about the whole situation.

 

 

 

 

I hope that helps.

[Devo'd]

I have attached a copy of the letter any feedback would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Devo'd]

Hi old-codJA

 

Thanks for the feedback. I understand all the feedback you gave having made this unintentional error. I know ignorance is no defence (and as such have not mentioned this in my correspondence) but didn't quite realise the gravity of my mistake till after the event. I accept that I am in the wrong on a number of counts and as such have made my apologies in the letter I have attached. I can only hope this is acceptable to the train company.

[firstclassx]

I have attached a copy of the letter any feedback would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

My cynical side thinks that your second paragraph in the letter could be improved. At present, it could imply that you are (partly) blaming the conductor for your predicament.

 

"On my journey back..." It also sounds like you didn't have a ticket on your outward journey either, is this correct? I assume you made a return journey, but paid for neither?

 

If so, I'd get rid of that, too.

[Devo'd]

Thanks firstclassx

 

I have removed any reference to not buying a ticket on the train. I didn't mean to impart any blame on the conductor merely wanted to imply that I had intended to buy a ticket on the train. As I didn't and it was my responsibility too it isn't worth mentioning. I have already stated this in my original interview at the station.

 

Bad wording on that section, it was a one way journey but coming "back" home, hence the wording. Now corrected to avoid any confusion.

 

Very useful, thankyou.

[Old-CodJA]

I have attached a copy of the letter any feedback would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

That's an excellent letter. I will be read and I have every hope that you will achieve your desired aim of avoiding a criminal record.

 

There are no guarantees unfortunately, the TOC are at liberty to ask the Courts to enforce the legislation via Summons, but in my long experience, if a reply from a first time offender comes over as genuine and remorseful it would be a very hard-hearted prosecutor who will simply proceed just because they can. I know that there are some who fit that category, but there are guidelines for prosecutors to follow that are designed to ensure fairness as well as bland enforcement of rules.

 

Good luck