@asklloydsbank Lloyds bank harassment - taking them to court for damages. **WON***

[Systemerror]

Just a quick post so anyone can point out to me possible pitfalls or things to watch out for.

 

After a long history of disgusting treatment by LLoyds bank I am now taking them to court to claim damages and costs relating anxiety and loss of earnings caused by their most recent disgusting activity of telephone harassment.

 

To cut a long story short, their collections department 01273 743574 was repeatedly phoning me. I don't owe them money. They had no reason to be calling. I asked them stop. They didn't. They would ring at all hours of the day. I continued to ask them to stop. They wouldn't. It caused extreme distress, anxiety, upset to my children, loss of sleep and severe disruption of my family and work life.

 

All my calls to them are recorded.

 

I have done a SAR which confirms my requests for them to stop calling me and their continued calls thereafter.

 

I am satisfied that 1) Their actions constituted harassment and that they knew this. 2) that a reasonably minded person with the same facts ( for obvious reasons not all presented here in glorious detail for the other side to see ) would consider their actions to be harassment.

 

I am making my claim for damages using Sections 3.i and 3.ii of the Protection From Harassment Act 1997.

 

In the early stages of their campaign of harassment, they paid out to me several hundred pounds of compensation but the calls continued so I started my claim using MCOL.

 

Any feed back or advice would be most welcome.

 

Ta.

[BankFodder]

Good for you.

 

You recorded your calls to them. Did you record their calls to you?

Have you kept a detailed log of all the calls - inlcuding times, dates, what was said?

It would be helpful to see your claim form.

It would also be helpful to see your chronology of what has happened.

[Systemerror]

Yes all calls are recorded and I have a detailed log which is confirmed by the SAR.

 

I will post my claim up when case is finished ( for obvious reasons). In essence it states that they were calling me. They were distressing me. I asked them to stop. They didn't. I'm making my claim for damages under the Protection from Harassment act 1997.

 

We have submitted allocation qs. I have been ordered by the Judge to set out the specific details of my claim, ie times + dates etc which I have to do by a deadline soon. I also have to set out how I come to the monetary value of my claim.

[BankFodder]

I don't see any prejudice to you if you publish your claim here.

However it might be helpful to you if you let us see it and give you some advice on preparing your statement.

If you like, contact me on our admin email address.

Put "Lloyds harassment" in the subject line

[Systemerror]

Thanks.. will do.

 

At the moment I am going through the transcript disc sent by the bank and matching up all the calls to my recordings and log.

[jdes26]

Well done!

I ditched my overdraft and they have rang me every day for 6weeks + but I don't pick up

Not that bothered

But in your case your have a great case

Good luck and well done for standing up

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you email me now.

I have a couple of documents for you which were used a Halifax case of harassment - the case is ongoing.

I think that they will be useful to you

[Systemerror]

have tried emailing but seems you might be full. This is where we are:

 

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

1. Unless the Claimant by ( a date soon ) files at Court and serves on the Defendant (and filing a certificate of service with the Court) a fully completed particulars of claim identifying:-

 

. the facts upon which the Claimant bases his action against the Defendant;

 

.how the Defendant is alleged to have caused a damage to the Claimanant;

 

.what loss or damage the Claimant claims to have suggested, and (in the case of financial loss or damage) how this has been calculated.

 

 

the claim be struck out against the Defendant without further Order of the Court pursuant to the provisions of CPR3.4(2) and CPR 16.2.

 

2 The amended particulars of claim must be endorsed with a statement of truth and signed by the claimant.

 

3If the above Order is complied with the First Defendant must file and serve an amended defence in accordance with CPR16.5 setting out its case in plain English within 21 days from the date of service.

 

4 Costs in the case.

 

 

Dated Some time recently 2012

[Systemerror]

Their initial defense went along the lines of please strike the case out because the claim is not specific, does not set out which law is being used and does not follow court procedure etc.

 

With my AQ I asked the Judge to bear with me while LLoyds pulled their finger out as I was waiting for a SAR from them which in their very own words would set out the specifics of what LLoyds had been up to. BTW, at that point the SAR was a month overdue!

[Systemerror]

I believe that my case is a little bit different to the one you shared because primarily the bank had no reason to be calling on my phone - no money owed- and they have already paid some compensation for the harassment yet they continued to call. The number of calls in my case is about 10% of the case you shared but over a shorter period of time. From my point of view they were equally distressing. They only stopped on the day i gave Lloyds the court case number.

 

What I would like to achieve more than anything - is public awareness of how this publicly owned bank abuses people. I remember with bank charges claims that the banks feared full disclosure in court about what their true costs were in relation to unauthorised overdraft letters etc. i wonder if it would be possible to force disclosure regarding their telephone harassment policies, numbers of complaints etc?

[BankFodder]

Of course it is different - but whether money is owed or not, harassment is still unlawful and the issues are the same.

 

Use what you think you need from the documents - but there is a lot there which is relevant to your case

[Systemerror]

Yes thank you very much. I was concerned that my level of damages might have been pitched too high but I think they are appropriate after reading quickly through those docs. I will copy to you my first draft of my "Fully completed particulars of claim" on Monday. Is there anything inparticular you think that I should pay more attention to when setting them out?

[BankFodder]

I need to see them first.

 

I expect that your level of damages is too high and I'd be interested to see how you come by them.

[Systemerror]

I am having difficulty opening the discs that I have received from LLoyds that have the telephone recordings of the calls from their 01273 743574 number. There are two problems:

 

1) The discs do not open on my computer following the instructions given by the bank DSAR team.

2) The discs contain the virus / trojan TR/Crypt.ZPACK.Gen.

 

Any suggestions? Is it reasonable to ask LLoyds to provide the data to me in a useful form such as written transcripts or should I ask the court to force the bank to disclose the data under disclosure rules. Although I have a detailed log of all calls and recordings and have the logged notes from the bank that tally up with my records, I would like to have had their recordings of the calls to complete the circle of evidence of their harassment.

 

Also, I believe that the bank may be be trying to hinder my efforts. The DSAR compliance was several months overdue. When I rang them to chase it up they said they were still waiting for the telephone records. Looking at the properties of the discs, I note that they were prepared months ago so there was no proper reason for the delay. They have only arrived a few days before my next court deadline and are unusable.

 

Seeing as I only have a few days to prepare specific particulars of my claim, should I mention all this in them?

[BankFodder]

Hilarious.

Lloyds have provided you with an infected disc.

 

I don't think that it is at all reasonable for you to to try and access the files. It would put your computer in danger.

Lloyds will object to providing you with transcripts of calls on the basis that it owuld take disproportionate effort. This justification is permitted under the Data Protection Act.

 

I think that in the circumstances - given that the deadline is very close, that you should complete your statement of claim with the information you have but that you you should also include on your particulars Lloyds breach of the DPA referring to the delay that you have referred to and alleging that they have still failed to comply because their purported compliance is contained on a disc which carries a key-logging virus.

 

As the court has required you to amend your POC, I see no problem in adding this new claim - and frankly youy should have taken action on their non-compliance a long time ago.

Once Lloyds get the amended POC they will move their butts to comply.

 

You should not be referring in detail to the transcripts or recordings in your POC. These are evidence.

A POC contains facts - no evidence.

 

The POC is merely a statement of facts which have occurred and which disclose your allegation that what has occurred was in breach of some duty owed by the defendant.

 

This means that a properly drafted POC can be a reasonably brief set of paragraphs.

 

The evidence - such as the tracripts or recordings, medical evidence, witness statements etc are supplied as part of a tre-trial bundle.

 

Then your arguments - which are intended to support your evidence and to show how your evidence is relevant to your claim and how it proves your claim - these are made verbally at the trial.

 

I suspect that you are going overboard on your POC - and it won't be helpful to you.

 

You really only need to plead that you received x number of calls over a period of x weeks - daily including Sundays etc including at non-social times

 

That you informed them repeatedly not to call

 

That the calls were unjustified (alhtough that is not very relevant to harasment).

 

That the calls caused distress to you and to your family

 

That Lloyds were aware of this (although this is not very relevant to harassment)

 

Then you need to particularlise the distress to each person who suffered

The you need to particularise your losses

 

Broadly that

[Systemerror]

Ok Thanks. - I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Systemerror]

I have spoken to their dsar team this morning and they say the virus on the disk is a false positive from my anti virus software or that i've infected it myself.....hmmmmm......I don't think so.

 

Anyway, I was chasing up an inquiry I had made from last Friday as to why their written log of their automated calls doesn't match up with my log. She said she had an explanation and read a letter she had received from their collections department about this. Essentially it said they had looked further into my case and discovered some more calls that weren't mentioned in the diary produced for my SAR and that unfortunately, sometimes they don't keep any record, "AT ALL", of calls made by collections in Manilla.

 

!!!

 

I think this could be a little problem for them

[Systemerror]

I must now crack on with the POC!

[Systemerror]

BankFodder, I have just sent you my first draft POC

[Systemerror]

have sent redraft

[Systemerror]

Ta very much...

 

The facts are set out clearly now

 

As Lloyds are so overdue with providing all my data asked for by my SAR I have also added breach of the data protection act 1998 to my claim. The data that they are not providing helps with my claim.

 

 

When it comes to the disclosure stage of my claim, how best should I give them the recordings of all the phone calls that I have made. Do I put them on a disc or what?

[BankFodder]

Let's see what happens.

However, you would normally prepare a transcript.

Also, if they are going to be produced in evidence at court, you would have to let them and the court know about it and warn the court that you will be coming with equipment in order to play the files.

You would be prepared so that you could move easily to each relevant piece. You wouldn't want to take up the court's time playing the whole thing.

 

The best thing would be to agree with the other side that the transcript is an accurate record. Then if you wanted to emphasise to the court some particularly unpleasant aspects of the calls, you would simply play those so that the court could hear their insulting or unreasonable behaviour.

 

Best to identify not more than half dozen short clips - say, 1 minute each and play those and tell the court that what you have played typipied what happened and that the rest were broadly the same.

You would then ask Lloyds whether they wanted to challenge that - and if they did, you would invite LLoyds to play extracts of their own choice. In that way, the option to take up the court's valuable time would be exercised by Lloyds - not you.

[Systemerror]

LLOyds DSAR team have sent some additional written transcripts of their calls to me........

 

 

Cust: hello

Agent: hello.erm, Good Morning, may I speak with XXXXXXX

Cust: Hi....

Agent: Hello?

Cust:Hi....

Agent:....I'm looking for XXXXXXXX

Cust: Who are you?

Agent: My name is nancy ( yeah right), I'm calling from LLoyds TSB

Cust: Ah...ha..

Agent: is XXXXXX around?

Cust: Speaking...

Agent:...I'm looking for XXXXXXXXXX

Cust: Yea, see the thing is I know you're not calling from the bank...

 

(Long pause)

 

Agent: ...my name is Nancy, I'm calling from LLyds TSB and I'm looking for XXXXXXXX

Cust:..Which branch of LLoyds are you calling from?...

 

(Long pause)

 

Agent: is XXXXXXXX around?

Cust: Which Branch of LLoyds TSB are you calling from? I'm about to call the police by the way....

Agent: Actually this call is being routed from Manilla , Philippines right....and I'm looking for XXXXXX and (Cust and agent talking at same time)

Cust: ....and I'm about to call the police

Agent: if XXXXXXX is not around I'll set a call back alright......

Cust:....I'm about to call the police and if you call this number again, I shall be suing you under sections 1, 2 and the of the protection From harassment act 1997. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME TO CALL THIS NUMBER IS THAT CLEAR?

Agent: Alright then....(Cust interrupts)

Cust:....I'm about to call the police, Goodbye ( Cust terminates the call )

Edited September 12, 2012 by Systemerror

[Systemerror]

They have sent a transcript where they hang up mid call too when asked an awkward question!

[Systemerror]

Quote from their DSAR team:

 

 

"The calls made by collections are made using an automated line and if the phone is answered the call is then transferred to an agent in Manilla. Whether or not a call is answered or not, a note should be made on the system that a call was attempted and if contact was made. As stated above, the collections agent did not detail the correct details for the 2 calls on such and such a date ...( these were call transcripts that were not sent with the first batch of calls ) so it is possible no note was made during other attempted calls, this would be a bank error"

 

That sounds to me like they are trying to make excuses for pretending they didn't hear my repeated requests for them not to call my number and to make the record look like they didn't make many calls...

Edited September 12, 2012 by Systemerror