Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[lisagav69]

Just to clarify too, my daughter is NEVER denied anything she needs even though the benefit money goes on DCA's. It's just easier as the debts are in my name and they come out of my account so we just use part of hubbys wage then to cover anything that would be paid for out of the benefit!

[Guest littlesally]

Lisa make your letter a personal one when you ask for the money back, rather than the legal type ones floating about here. I have made a couple of claims for others on benefits, legal ones get a straight 'no' the personal ones get it back.

If they still say no, ask if they could waive the charges for a month so you can get straightened out.

If you ring, crying is good!

 

Sally x

[steven4064]

Hi littlesally - did your homeless gentleman ever get his 15 minutes of fame?

[Guest littlesally]

Hi littlesally - did your homeless gentleman ever get his 15 minutes of fame?

 

The bank paid up so he didn't need to, but he would have preferred the bank not to so he could have his picture in the paper !!!

Actually he was really pleased, he tried his account to see if there was a few quid there as he was so skint and there it was!

 

Making letters a bit personal is a much better way to go at the moment

 

Sally xxx

[steven4064]

Perhaps he could get his picture in the paper because the bank paid him back - headline "Homeless man in victoy over bank" maybe. Just a thought

[Guest littlesally]

Still no benefit forum Steve?

Maybe when there is one you will be made into a mod as you seem to be the only staff who helps out with benefits.

Glad you're here

 

Sally xxx

[Guest littlesally]

I will put that to him when I see him, he's not been around for a while, but not heard anything which is a good sign

 

Sally xxx

[steven4064]

Still no benefit forum Steve?

I've put it in my task list for January. A lot of people are away/busy and the 'techies' are working on the debt forum upgrade.

[TideTurner]

Can anybody with benefits knowledge help on this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/120845-rossendales-final-reminder-i-new-post.html

 

This concerns council tax and Bailiffs attendance imminent.

 

Many thanks

[caro]

I don't know much about this kind of thing but you seem to have covered it pretty well IMO TideTurner.

[abroadgirl]

hello all hope you all had a good christmas lol

well i dont know if i am allowed to put this in here

but i thought it may be intresting to u all as we all know that it is not allowed for the banks to take there charges out of our benefits dont we well take a look at this from inga kirkman

 

i am fuming

yes i have given her the acts where it is unlawful and if i remember right the fos says it is aswell if i remember rightly

********************************************************

good morning all

hi jan

hope u all had a good christmas

well here is what i have recived from inga kirkman

bear in mind i havent had a reply to my letter/fax 6th dec 07

anyway i asked her about the charges coming out of benefits here is the 2 replies i got this morning

 

without prejudice

the courts dont like that

 

dear ms miller

abbey national plc has not ignored your efferts to resolve this matter your emails have been responded to on each occassion

yeah after me sending reminders and no mention of the faxes either

i confirm that abbey nation plc has been made aware of your correspondence and in view of the imminent commencement of the TEST CASE

LITIGARION MY KINSTRUCTIONS remain to object to your application seeking to lift the stay currently in place

************************* ************************* *

 

2nd reply

 

Dear Madam

i have not personally examined your account and nor do i have access to your account to do so therefore i cannot respond to your question

however with respect your analyisis of the law in so far as it relates to any bank charges fees, which fees are paid out of the procceeds of any bank is incorrect.

************************* ***********************

 

i dont understand that bit is inga kirkman saying that the DWP/SOCIAL SECURITY benefits acts are wrong?

or is she saying i am wrong that charges wasnt taken from benefits

i have it all here as it was the only payments going in my account DWP and mobility

thanks for any help please

abg

[steven4064]

Hi abg

 

The two Acts of parliament say that it is unlawful to make charges on income which derives from benefits. HOWEVER by 'charges' the DO NOT MEAN BANK CHARGES . What is meant is things like attachment of earnings.

 

My understanding is that, although there is some ambiguity, if you took a case to reclaim bank charges to court based on s187 of the SSAA 1992 or s45 of the TCA 2002 you would LOSE.

 

Sorry for 'shouting' but this needs to be made clear.

 

THe only difference that income being from benefits makes is that you may be able to claim hardship to get a stay lifted. However, to my knowledge, no one has succeeeded in doing this yet.

[abroadgirl]

hi steven so inga is right in what she has said in her emailo to me then?

so what about the ss acts is that wrong and the fos does say it in there papers

so what do i do now it looks like i will lose then when i go to court on the 8th jany

abg

p.s. i have sent a hardship letter 6th dec and also the fos has it and dealing with it as well

[steven4064]

I don't know what inga wrote i nher e-mail to you so I can't say. The most important thing is to look at the court case. What did you put in your Particulars of Claim? Can you post them so we can have a look and see what we can do to help? (If you don't know how, have a look in the "CAG for dummies" link in my signature)

[TideTurner]

Steven, still burning the midnight oil I see!!

 

I see your point completely, but surely this would come down to literal interpretation? In particular with the SSAA, the wording should have been altered until clarification is made on the word 'charge'.

 

In cases like these, each charge or penalty represents a large percentage of a persons income. By claiming a right to this money and by the act of taking it, does this not demonstrate a charge similar to goods or assets, similar to those placed on property on with an attachment of earnings order?

 

Just trying to be objective before we dismiss the argument. Shall I get my coat?

 

Tide

[steven4064]

It's not midnight here yet tide

 

You would think they would make it clearer - but I guess the question has only arisen recently whereas the concept of charges in the sense that the two social security acts use the word goes back a long way - certainly as far as the Crown Proceedings Act 1947 and possibly before.

 

It's one of the pitfalls that arise when a word in common use is taken and given a specific meaning in a technical field - it happens in science and engineering too. A 'lay' person can easily fall into the pit, unfortunately.

 

What you say is true about bank charges being a large porportion of peolpe's income - you have only got to read this thread to see that. No one is saying that the banks have the right to take this money, only that you can't use the Socail Security Administration Act 1992 or the Tax Credits Act 2002 to stop them. Money taken from benefits is unlawful - but unlawful by virtue of the UTCCR1999 and the common law on penalties in contracts , not under the SSAA1992 or TCA2002 (unfortunately).

[TideTurner]

As clinical as always Steven, maybe a rethink or simple reversion to plan A (UTCCR and common law) is in order.

 

All the best

 

Tide

 

PS You know I'll be up half the night now!!

[maybelline]

or try the Banking Code route on genuine hardship and benefits ie low income and raise a complant if necessary.

[JGJ]

Steven4064, Re your Post 691 above.As usual an incisive, informative post. Thank you. "EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[Taras]

As clinical as always Steven, maybe a rethink or simple reversion to plan A (UTCCR and common law) is in order.

 

All the best

 

Tide

 

PS You know I'll be up half the night now!!

 

It would be a nice sample letter to use.

[steven4064]

Hi Taras

 

What people need to do is to use the 'normal' proven CAG procedure for reclaiming charges whether they are taken from benefits or not. At the moment, though, any such clai would be put on hold (stayed) once it got to court because of the OFT test case that starts on 14 January.

 

depending on how that pans out we might be able to restart claims for personal current accounts soon (but don't hold your breath). It is worth starting the process now, at least so that the interest clock starts ticking.

 

Read some threads and read the 'New Member' stuff on the home page. We'll be here to help.

[abroadgirl]

hi steven the emails i got from inga is in thread no 686

i did post them so maybe she is right?

hugs

abg

[mim22070]

Does the letter on page 1 apply to charges being taken from EVERY benefit payment that goes into your account or just the one date stated?

[steven4064]

mim

 

You have to do it every time a benefit is due to be paid into your account and often the banks ignore the letter anyway, sorry to say.

[steven4064]

Still no benefit forum Steve?

 

I've put it in my task list for January. A lot of people are away/busy and the 'techies' are working on the debt forum upgrade.

Benefits forum now up and running (includes minimum wage issues too)