Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[vandermerwe]

Why bother to close your account Ammani - just don't have any money paid in to it. You could toss them the odd groat now and then to pay off any legitimate charges.

 

I'd avoid the Post Office if I were you as I understand the DSS (or whatever they call themselves this week) are ceasing payments into Post Office accounts soon - probably part of the government's plan to close them down!

 

From what I recall, the Co-op issues a card which can be used to draw cash and also pay debit orders (no cheque book though).

 

I have to call them tomorrow about my account and I'll ask and then post what they say.

 

Regards.

 

Van

[JonCris]

ammani Get them to put it in writing

[ammani]

I will check this Co-Op account out tomorrow.Not sure where my nearest one is, will have to look it up.

 

I have had to put some money in the bank today, to cover my direct debits, and am only going to put enough in to pay what is needed. If i can sort another way to pay direct debits, i will tell Nationwide to close my account and if they say no, ask them to put it in writting.

 

I know as soon as i do that, they will demand back the overdraft, so i am going to have to sort my claim out for the court, so i can put in a counter claim, and let them wait!

 

Its driving me crazy at the moment, is last thing i think about at night, and first thing on waking!!

 

Checking my bank statement today, i noticed they had cashed a cheque for my account, that was higher than the cheque that i had written, so went in with my cheque book, and asked why this cheque number was cashed for this amount, when i had written it for less.

 

Also got a letter from my phone provider saying the direct debit had been cancelled, on the banks authority,(there were funds to cover it in my account)and that they were going to put a restriction on my phone, which they did. No phone today.I didnt cancel it, and its showing as active on my online account!!

 

They are looking into it.Whatever next!!

[karen654321]

Hiya i dont know if anyone can help. Ive been trying to claim back money from halifax that was taken in charges against an account that only funded by benefits.

 

I sent the two standard letters to halifax and they told me basically they believe these charges to be lawful. I rang the halifax and said about them taking money from benefits and they told me they have never ever heard about not being able to.

 

I contacted the fos back in june and they have wrote back now basically saying they have contacted halifax but until this oft proceedings are dealt with they wont look into it.

 

But what im claiming for isnt the amount of the charges its the fact that they are not ment to take charges out of benefit money (mostly disability living allowance and incapacity benefit).

 

Can anyone let me know if the oft proceeding will affect what im claiming?

 

thanks very much

 

karen

[JonCris]

karen your situation has nothing whatsoever to do with the pending OFT case. However what it does do is that it shows once again the complete lack of knowledge of the regulator

 

In your case it not a matter of whether bank penalty charges are lawful or not. Your penalty charges have been taken unlawfully from your benefits in direct contravention of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 in which your benefit payments are deemed sacrosanct.

 

The bank & the regulator must understand that the benefits paid to you don't 'belong' to you they 'belong' to the State & are given to provide support to you & your dependants.

 

You will see below that even a Trustee in Bankruptcy can't touch your benefits.

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Miscellaneous

Certain benefit to be inalienable **

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bancrupcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors

__________________

 

I suggest you write to them using the template above & provide the FSA with copies in order they might learn something.

 

If all else fails you will need to consider issuing court proceedings. If you do you must ensure that your POC does not refer to the charges as being unlawful but only that taking them from your State benefit is

[ammani]

I really dont think they will listen, i was told ' its our right to take those charges, even if its your benefits'. Am so livid, am going crazy! Looked at my account today and they had dishonoured my direct debit. I deliberately put funds into my account yesterday to cover it, with some left over and have a reciept to show that, and they have shown money as going in today, and showing there wasnt enough funds for direct debit. I am now going down there as they wont answer the phone, and i wont be held responsible for what i do. I just cannot take it anymore.

[skintcumbrian]

This was given in a skeleton arguments doc to me yesterday by an HSBC barrister from Temple, London

 

 

Social security adminstration act 1992. The claimant argues that the levying of bank fees amount to an unlawful 'charge' on benefits she receives from the State. It is plain that this argument is wrong as a matter of construction of the Act, and confuses 'charges' in the sense of fees (to which the act has no relevance) and 'charges' in the sense of a proprietary right attaching to benefits (to which the Act relates, but which the levying of fees on overdrafts does not create).

 

 

A CAG lawyer told me earlier this week that possibly the SSA argument we are all using is a misinterpretation of the Act. Someone needs to work out once and for all whether or not the illegal taking of benefits is occurring and get it established/find a precedent once and for all in LAW. HSBC may well be wrong above, in which case their argument needs some case law against it as they will undoubtedly use it again. Or they may be right, in which case claimants (us lot) need to use the argument only in the correct context.

[ammani]

I made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman yesterday about this, and they said to me, that although they do not take the same view, that the department that hands out the benefits, does consider this illegal!

[vandermerwe]

Ammani, if you go to the 'Welcome' forum (i.e. the page that opens at the very beginning you'll see the second (or maybe third) "sticky" down is headed 'Do you need a parachute account?' and then follows a list of all the banks that offer them and their minimal conditions.

 

If you Google Co-op Bank and get onto Cashminder current account and call the number they should open one for you over the telephone.

 

Hope this helps. We're both in the same boat here.

 

Regards

 

Van

[karen654321]

Thanks joncris for advice.

Sent letters in the post today to both halifax and the fos. (both recorded)

 

Will let you know when i get a reply

 

karen

[ammani]

Hi vandermerwe,

 

thanks for that will have a look. My nearest Co-Op is in Chatham, quite some way from me, but will see what they offer.Have decided to cancel all my direct debits with Nationwide, there is no way i am putting one more penny into that account.After going to my local branch and demanding to speak to the manager, i was told i couldnt as only 2 people on that day, so got them to give me a number of someone in authority i could speak to. So called the number and i was given another number which was engaged for 2 hours.Finally spoke to someone who said the department i needed to speak to wouldnt accept incoming calls, and they would get them to call me!Told them if i didnt get any joy by this evening, not to bother, and i would go to the media!!

[vandermerwe]

"Manager", what's that Ammani?

 

Fifty years ago he was the chap in charge of the branch of a bank where, in my case, I did not have an account but where a rather attractive girl worked. He had total authority over all his customers' accounts. He liked some, he disliked others (including staff) but treated everyone fairly including the girl I fancied who had family problems and who he treated like a daughter. His first clerk, if that was the title, was a total jobsworth whose name I have forgotten but tried to hold sway over all that passed through the door.

 

Needless to say, he detested the twerp who came in to chat up the counter assistant.

 

As did the acne-ridden other counter clerk.

 

The building is still there but, alas, no "Manager". Only the jobsworth's successor.

 

Why do I recall this? Because 45 years ago I married the rather attractive girl who still speaks favourably of her 'manager' and who came to our wedding.

 

You do not need to go into a Co-op branch. I don't think I have ever seen one.

 

It's all done by telephone.

 

If you want to go to the media (which I think you should) I will post some suggestions tomorrow when the Sundays have come.

 

If you wish me to continue with these posts just give my scales a click, but I shan't take offence if you just tell me to go away.

 

Regards

 

Van

 

P.S. Please forgive the waffle but this, I have found, can be a fairly empathetic site.

[ammani]

Hello vandermerwe,

 

many thanks for that lovely story. Society has changed a lot since then, and people in the banks have no morals, all they can think of is selling, selling and selling!

 

I have been thinking of going to the media, but want to get some legal advice, as to how i stand, if i give the names of the people who i am quoting from. I would be most grateful for your suggestions, 2 heads are better than 1.

 

Thats great about the Co-Op being done by telephone, makes life easier.

 

I have clicked on your scales, sorry i hadnt known about them, thanks for mentioning them to me.

 

And of course, i would never ask you or anyone else to go away, i value everything you share with me. In my line of work, i see many individuals who are broken and and emotionally wrecked through all the bad things in our society, especially this bank charges problem, and i would do anything to help anyone, and if more people were to do the same, we would be in a far better world, but unfortunately greed has taken over!

 

Yes it is an empathetic site, as many of us are struggling, with these bank charges and can relate to each others problems.Lets hope with all of us pulling together, we may get some thing good done.

 

Regards

 

Ammani.

[Vital Spark]

VS write back & ask them that,

 

in order that I might consider any further action please advise how & on what date you disposed of my data. I feel this is particularly important for me to know as my account is still current

 

(assuming it is of course)

Thanks JonCris, I'll do as you suggest.

 

Why can't I add to your scales/reputation? I keep trying. :confused:

 

They've sent the data I last requested but the covering letter advised that, although the Law in Scotland differs from that in Engand, the bank is asking the Scottish Courts to await the OFT case decision before making judgement on any cases. :rolleyes:

 

I intend using both the unfair/unlawful and the benefits, illegal tracks, unless you advise against. The charges will come to more than £1,500 so I will have to use a solicitor for an ordinary case, up here.

 

Will let you know the response to the letter you recommend.

 

Thanks again .

[Vital Spark]

Yes, it's current

[vandermerwe]

Thanks for your kind words Ammani, they're much appreciated.

 

I most definitely think you should go to the press and suggest you read two of this weekend's columnists, Jessica Gorst-Williams in "The Telegraph" 'Your Money' section, and Diana Wright in "The Sunday Times" 'Money Section'.

 

You'll find Jessica's column on Your Money - Telegraph by clicking on "Jessica Investigates" and I Googled "a question of money" for Diana's column.

 

They are both typical of their weekly style, and Jessica's conditions are shown on her site.

 

I didn't actually spot Diana's conditions so I'll quote from the paper:

 

E-mail Diana Wright at the address below (no attachments please) or write to A Question of Money, The Sunday Times, 1 Pennington Street, London E98 1ST, giving a daytime telephone number. We cannot send personal replies or deal with every letter. Please do not send original documents or SAEs. Advice is offered without legal responsibility.

 

I wouldn't bother seeking legal advice about mentioning names as you will see both columnists heavily edit or precis readers' comments.

 

You must choose one or the other - it would be most unwise to write to both.

 

One of my other favourites is Tony Hetherington of "The Mail on Sunday" but he concentrates more on share and insurance scams.

 

Do let us know what you decide to do. Maybe other readers will check these two columnists and also write in.

 

Good luck!

 

Van

[Vital Spark]

Further to post #514, I found something, via Rory32 and Zootscoot, copied from the Govan law Center

http://www.govanlc.com/sisted.pdf

[archer_66]

ive reclaimed charges recently (in june) and since then ive had another couple of hundred taken out in charges .ive recently wrote to them(email off the website) and listed the charges dates and copy of what the relevant law is that forbids this kind of behaviour.they emailed back saying..... as you have already had charges refunded we will not be refunding anymore???!!! well im waiting for my 6+ years statements so that i can do it all together but why are they allowed to get away with this when its illegal?

[JonCris]

This was given in a skeleton arguments doc to me yesterday by an HSBC barrister from Temple, London

 

 

Social security adminstration act 1992. The claimant argues that the levying of bank fees amount to an unlawful 'charge' on benefits she receives from the State. It is plain that this argument is wrong as a matter of construction of the Act, and confuses 'charges' in the sense of fees (to which the act has no relevance) and 'charges' in the sense of a proprietary right attaching to benefits (to which the Act relates, but which the levying of fees on overdrafts does not create).

 

 

A CAG lawyer told me earlier this week that possibly the SSA argument we are all using is a misinterpretation of the Act. Someone needs to work out once and for all whether or not the illegal taking of benefits is occurring and get it established/find a precedent once and for all in LAW. HSBC may well be wrong above, in which case their argument needs some case law against it as they will undoubtedly use it again. Or they may be right, in which case claimants (us lot) need to use the argument only in the correct context.

 

Skint sorry mate then your CAB lawyer is wrong (& not for the 1st time I shouldn't wonder) Not only does the DWP disagree with him/her but so does the Minister of State.

 

What your CAB lawyer & the banks need to understand & accept is that they are not taking the debtors money but that of the state. Unfortunately when this government forced the banks to set up 'basic' accounts in order to receive payments there was no joined up thinking.

 

The government probably thought because there would be no overdraft facilities that claimants on fixed low incomes would not incur any debts they couldn't afford to repay.

 

No one in government even considered the possibility that someone could be penalized to the tune of many hundreds of pounds within a very short time. A situation from which there is no hope of recovery. So instead of insisting the banks simple refuse to pay anything over budget WITHOUT penalizing the most vulnerable they simply ignored what could & has happened.

 

When these accounts were announced the banks must have been rubbing their hands in anticipation of the huge sums they where about to extract from the poor

[Sara Hope]

Hi, this is my first post here. I have been reading with interest, but admittedly, its midnight and have had to skip the last half of the thread as my eyes are starting to shut against my will, so I will apologise if I am repeating things.

 

I have a basic bank account with Alliance & Leicester (not a current account) at the beginning of this month I missed a DD, I realised what had happened on the day and went straight to the bank to try and sort it, they were useless of course, I made four visits to the bank to try and sort it out, each time being fobbed off. On the last visit I filled a First Time Resolution form (FTR), which is what i was told to do. I heard nothing and yesterday I had £47 Income Support paid into my account, then the bank kindly took £34 of it. I phoned the branch, who told me to phone head office. They told me the branch are supposed to help me, so I went in to talk to them, after reading some info on this forum I told the woman I spoke to that they were not allowed to take money from benefits but she smugly informed me they were and they couldn't help me till the FTR decision came back.

 

I just wondered if I should wait for that, but I was told today that it could take weeks as they are so backed up with people reclaiming their bank charges. In the mean time I have £13 to live on for the week. I have tax credits going in the bank, but I use that to pay other DD's and live on my IS, if i dip into the tax credits I'm going to miss other DD's and its going to snowball.

 

Is there anyway to fix this quickly?

 

Thanks for any help

[Sara Hope]

Just a little addition, I phoned DWP this morning as I saw a couple of mentions about them being helpful.... they weren't, lol. The lady told me it was between me and my bank and up to me to sort out.

[vandermerwe]

Hi Sara. I know exactly how you feel about the bank(s) and also the following of threads on this site.

 

You ask if there is any way to fix this quickly. The answer is no, but you need recommended action. My suggestions are (but see my caveat below):

 

a) Never communicate with a bank by phone or face to face. Do it only in writing and, despite the hassle, use recorded delivery and keep a copy.

 

b) Have a cup of strong coffee this morning and wade through my conversations above with Ammani.

 

c) Write a brief but reasoned letter giving the outline of events to one of the columnists I have recommended to Ammani.

 

d) Phone the National Debtline (it's free being a charity) on 0808 808-4000 and ask their advice - they have some astonishingly good fact sheets which are also available on National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000

 

e) AFAIK (As far as I know) [there are some quite indecipherable acronyms on this site!] you are not limited to one basic account, so try opening one with the Co-op but, remember, no cheque book, no overdraft facility, but DDs are payable, and get all your state benefits paid into it and disburse them as and when you wish - but it means watching the situation virtually daily - but it feels good to be in control. In fact, the one thing I have learned from joining CAG in April is that it's all about ME being in control of my financial affairs instead of THEM.

 

f) Who is your MP? Decide whether you feel he/she would be supportive and if so contact him/her. I am mugging up on all I can about first appropriation of benefits - difficult because I am not a computer geek - and intend seeking my M.P.'s support to ask awkward questions. And I'm not talking pennies here - my bank calls their monthly fines or penalty charges "arrangement fees" and -zip- there goes £75 off my state pension/benefits.

 

It's mayhem out there. You can see my background by clicking on my name, I ran my own business for 30 years and earned sufficient to educate three children to become a consultant surgeon, a leading barrister, and a midwife (that's why we never had money for holidays!) but back in England

we are treated like **** by the banks. I think I forgot to mention my overdraft (which was only acquired in April) is £1000!

 

Sara, if you find this sort of rather belligerent advice helpful give my scales a click (that's the blob between the green spot and the red triangle at the bottom left of the post) and I'll keep in contact. If this is not the sort of advice you want just tell me and I'll shut up!

 

Good luck.

 

Vandermerwe

 

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, I'm not qualified in any way (except common sense) to give advice and would certainly not be approved by 'elf 'n safety and the other government quangos supported by our taxes.

[Sara Hope]

Hi Vandermerwe, thanks for your advice, after spending the morning on the phone and banging my head against the wall, I've decided you're very right about writing to them.

 

I've just got off the phone with head office again, not surprisingly they were useless, again. Basically said they have suspended all refund payments because of the bank charges being reclaimed, now everything has to go through customer relations. I can kind of understand this, but when they have taken money they shouldn't have touched in the first place it seems disgusting to make us wait for it to be returned.

 

I am about to write a letter to them, but I think I'll have that strong coffee first, and maybe some chocolate, just so I use less foul language lol.

 

 

 

[ammani]

Hi Sara Hope, i sympathise with you, as i am going through the same thing at the moment. I took Vandermerwe's advice, and have applied for an account with the Co-Op, and have cancelled all my direct debits with Nationwide, and let them whistle for their charges and overdraft! I will put in a counter claim for the £4000 plus interest they owe me.If you phone the benefits office they will send your money as a giro, that you can cash at any post office.Take back control of your finances, it feels good. I am working on the idea of going to the media, and have looked at the links vandermerwe mentioned to me.Yes it is disgusting what they are doing, but they say they are entitled to do it, and will continue to.I must admit my language was somewhat shocking too, i was fuming. I have written to my local MP, the only way to get heard, is to make waves. Good luck.

 

Ammani.

[vandermerwe]

Good morning girls.

 

Sarah - try a dash of brandy in the coffee, but have the choccy too if it makes you feel better. But go for them.

 

Ammani - good one! Remember the DWP is going to cease issuing giros next year so get them paid into your parachute account. If you write to the press PM me with the name so I write to the other. I feel the letter coming on, but there are only so many hours in the day a number of which are taken up with looking after an unwell wife.

 

Keep it up and good luck as ever!

 

Van