Urgent Advice Please / 9 Year Old Council Tax Liability Order / BAILIFF!!

[i hate bailiffs]

at the end of the day you can pay the bailiffs if you like they will charge you lots

deal with it how you like

 

i have had dealings with bailiffs as have others i have never paid bailiff fees once being around 3 weeks ago

 

if you deny bailiffs a levy and entry nothing they can do ever end off

 

have a read of some posts where people have been had over by bailiffs

[Equilibruim]

at the end of the day you can pay the bailiffs if you like they will charge you lots

deal with it how you like

 

i have had dealings with bailiffs as have others i have never paid bailiff fees once being around 3 weeks ago

 

if you deny bailiffs a levy and entry nothing they can do ever end off

 

have a read of some posts where people have been had over by bailiffs

 

I am so very scared of the un announced visits and door poundings... Maybe I am not brave enough to tackle this I have not paid anything to anyone yet...

 

Say I pay the council... Then send bailiff and their head office a confirmation of my payment to council tonight and they turn up tomorrow or the next day what do i say? do? tell them to naff off? Im reluctant to annoy the bailiff... He knows where I live and i already feel a prisoner here after his first visit!?

[i hate bailiffs]

i know where you are coming from but

 

if door knocks ignore it just like you may do with telephone when don't recognized number

bailiffs have little/no powers for council tax debt at this point

you don't have to talk to the Muppet bailiff if you don't want to

 

http://youtu.be/OhpsIyNVwwM

that is the polite way

[Equilibruim]

i know where you are coming from but

 

if door knocks ignore it just like you may do with telephone when don't recognized number

bailiffs have little/no powers for council tax debt at this point

you don't have to talk to the Muppet bailiff if you don't want to

 

http://youtu.be/OhpsIyNVwwM

that is the polite way

 

I had to chuckle.... First laugh I had all day...

 

So you are absolutely sure that as long as I keep doors and windows closed they cannot do a thing? I just show them the receipt from the council payment and tell them to sling their hook?

 

in the meantime write to the council proposing payments for the actual amount and await the breakdown in the post of bailiff debt / fees?

 

Would i even need to contest the fees if i dont pay them? Am i liable for any of their fees?

[i hate bailiffs]

you will be fine if you keep them out

 

get payments started with council it is a non priority debt so don't leave yourself short

get the split liability sorted

 

i would of thought the only fee would be first visit not the made up ones when they did visit but not your address

[Equilibruim]

you will be fine if you keep them out

 

get payments started with council it is a non priority debt so don't leave yourself short

get the split liability sorted

 

i would of thought the only fee would be first visit not the made up ones when they did visit but not your address

 

Okay... I am about to pay the council and forward the proof of payment to the bailiff and say no need for any further visits as i am in liaison with the council now. I will offer to pay the £24.50 as a gesture of goodwill....?

 

Please don't leave me now; I honestly could not do this without the amazing support i have received from you and everyone thank you xx

[i hate bailiffs]

[Equilibruim]

OPINIONS PLEASE - letter to bailiff

Dear Sirs,

I refer to your visit 06th August 2012 informingme that your company have been instructed by XX Council to enforcetwo liability orders against me, in respect of council tax.

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company thatI am aware of my rights and that I will not allow a bailiff to enter my homepeacefully to levy on my goods.

I would like to make it clear that I am not refusing topay the original debt of £XXX.XX; I will repay this liability directly toXX Council by way of monthly payments. XX Council hasalready received the first payment of £XX.00 and the receipt number for thispayment is XX.

I am aware that under the Council Tax Administration& Enforcement Act 1993 (as amended), you can charge a first visit fee of£24.50 and a second visit fee, if necessary, of £18.00. No further visit feescan be imposed.

As no levy has ever been made on my goods, no levy chargescan exist and in line with this; no further costs in regard to attendance feescan exist. Goods can only be seized with a list of goods to levy and therefore withouta list of goods to levy upon no attendance with the look to seize goods shouldever have taken place.

As the figures provided by the attending bailiffs totalsmore than the £XXX.XX original debt + £24.50 first visit fee = £XXX.XX I feelit is most appropriate that the case be referred back to the council for furtherinvestigation.

As the visit on 06/08/12 was the first and last necessaryvisit to our property I am offering as a gesture of goodwill make a payment of£24.50 in line with the above act. Should you choose to uptake this gesture ofgood will I will be happy to make a bank transfer for the figure of £24.50 onthe receipt of written confirmation of the completion of our communications.

Anything else I should mention?

Planning to leave a copy on my doorstep tomorrow, send one copy by email tonight and also post one by special delivery tomorrow?

[wonkeydonkey]

Write to the Council also...tell them you are aggrieved by the way the matter has been dealt with...(give them the facts) and furthermore the way in which their appointed agents have responded to your complaint ...then TELL them you will be making payment to the debt direct to them at £xx on xx day/date

every week/month and have as a gesture of goodwill offered to their agent the single visit fee incurred by them. Contact your local councillor and put him/her in the picture.

 

WD

[Equilibruim]

Write to the Council also...tell them you are aggrieved by the way the matter has been dealt with...(give them the facts) and furthermore the way in which their appointed agents have responded to your complaint ...then TELL them you will be making payment to the debt direct to them at £xx on xx day/date

every week/month and have as a gesture of goodwill offered to their agent the single visit fee incurred by them. Contact your local councillor and put him/her in the picture.

 

WD

 

Hello wonkeydonkey

 

Yes I wrote to the council too with a schedule of payments and good reasons why the case should be handled by them...

 

I / everyone has been out the house today do not sure what has been going on at home in my absence...

 

No replies from anyone yet... Will keep posting as soon as I know anything! :$

[Equilibruim]

Hello wonkeydonkey

 

Yes I wrote to the council too with a schedule of payments and good reasons why the case should be handled by them...

 

I / everyone has been out the house today do not sure what has been going on at home in my absence...

 

No replies from anyone yet... Will keep posting as soon as I know anything! :$

 

 

Well good afternoon folks

 

No news at all from the bailiff...

 

Yesterday we were all out and I left an envelope on the doorstep addressed to the bailiff with a copy of the letter to his office plus the receipt of payment from the council and it was untouched so assumably they didnt call... OH & our little one were home today... I told them to bunker down and make like they were not home... I was expecting trouble after both bailiff office and council put the wind up me about making trouble for ourselves by not paying bailiff direct and having received by this morning no replies from either party I was a bit dubious about how day 2 could unfold...

 

Had a reply from council this afternoon...

 

says has notified bailiff that payment received and has asked bailiff to accept the lower monthly repayment i offered to council, they have.

 

says as long as we pay bailiff on time at new rate starting next month they should have no reason to come around again.

 

although understands reasons; is not willing to take case back.

 

says have told bailiff not to discuss with me (as little one and i the venerable parties suffering most and not my debt)

 

says if i dont receive requested breakdown of fees they will investigate

 

 

Now... are all councils obliged to stick by those advisory regulations about venerable category people? Im sure i read that if even just one person in the house is venerable then the whole house should be regarded as so? Going to read more on this...

 

Did i read that as soon as I pay bailiff a penny (not that i intend to lol!) I am liable for the ridiculous fees too?

 

And if i pay council full liability amount the liability order cannot be enforced for fees only? Can they still pursue us in anyway?

 

No way am we paying an additional £299.20 of which by me £274.70 (£24.50 1st visit only) are made up?! I offered the £24.50 and my offer stands.

 

Next I will reply to council with what I can find out in regards to their obligations to ensure our wellbeing. Might even SAR them as I believe case shouldnt have been sent to bailiff anyway. Follow up email to mp office

 

Makes me so cross that council and bailiff stick together like glue, mostly against people who either dont have access to info to help or are scared to act upon it. I hope what I did was right and that we will not have to pay the random ridiculous bailiff charges....

 

Look forward to hearing from you, regards

[i hate bailiffs]

although understands reasons; is not willing to take case back. one day council will change there script!!

 

that is a normal reply from them

 

this is a 9 year old bill not a priority bill

 

have the council supplied you with a liability order?

 

never pay a bailiff!!

[Equilibruim]

although understands reasons; is not willing to take case back. one day council will change there script!!

 

that is a normal reply from them

 

this is a 9 year old bill not a priority bill

 

have the council supplied you with a liability order?

 

never pay a bailiff!!

 

I called the council the day the bailiff came and went and collected the two liability orders. They both were issued within the same year as c/t was due.

 

Trying to get copy of an old tenancy agreement which should disprove one of them and possibly part of the other one too if I can disprove liability at this stage?

 

The figures on the LO do not match the ones lady at council quoted me on the phone even minus the payments that have been made against the account.

 

No clarity!

 

Great to hear from you

[ploddertom]

I can't remember whether this has been asked and/or answered. Sometimes we may ask who the Council & Bailiffs are.

 

The reasons for that are because a lot of Councils now outsource their admin function including revenue collection to private companies, one such company is Capita. They also happen to own 2 Bailiff companies as well - Equita and Ross & Roberts. It is well known when you ring the Councils involved that Capita are renowned for not being helpful.

 

Another point you have to bear in mind is that you have committed the cardinal Sin of not paying your dues and you are very naughty for doing so and need to be suitably chastised.It is therefore passed to our nice Bailiff team and let me tell you they never do any wrong or try to fleece you. In other words the word of the Bailiff is gospel according to the Council and you are not to dare question them. Point being is the Council haven't a clue and believe everything the Bailiff tells them - oh how many have rued that thought.

[Equilibruim]

I can't remember whether this has been asked and/or answered. Sometimes we may ask who the Council & Bailiffs are.

 

The reasons for that are because a lot of Councils now outsource their admin function including revenue collection to private companies, one such company is Capita. They also happen to own 2 Bailiff companies as well - Equita and Ross & Roberts. It is well known when you ring the Councils involved that Capita are renowned for not being helpful.

 

Another point you have to bear in mind is that you have committed the cardinal Sin of not paying your dues and you are very naughty for doing so and need to be suitably chastised.It is therefore passed to our nice Bailiff team and let me tell you they never do any wrong or try to fleece you. In other words the word of the Bailiff is gospel according to the Council and you are not to dare question them. Point being is the Council haven't a clue and believe everything the Bailiff tells them - oh how many have rued that thought.

 

Lol lol lol yes very very naughty! 70% of the debt period they could have traced us via the electoral roll! Buy why not leave it 10 years?! I thought thats how they caught up with people! No idea untill the details turn up where they have been sending these people for years (apparently!) The council are def not part of bailiff co but nevertheless behaviour parallels your input

 

Actually boasts on the bailiff website that they recently acquired the cOntract which covers my area!

 

Waiting for the breakdown of the 299.20... I could use a good chuckle...

[brassnecked]

To add to ploddertoms line of reasoning, it matters not one whit that the hapless debtor has fallen on hard times, that they cannot afford the Council tax, that they are actually entitled to the relief of council tax benefit, but the backoffice voles of the Housing benefit section of the council or even Capita if outsourced are lax in processing the benefit, arrears accrue, Liability orders obtained and the debt passed to that convenient collector the bailiff, win win for capita if they are involved involved as that bailiff will likely be from their own companies Equita or Ross 'n Robbers. they think it is fair and equitable to load further debt on those who cannot afford it. the can't pays outweigh the won't pays usually by 99:1.

 

Still can't understand why they left it 9 years in OP's case, and yes which council and bailiffs? Come on name and shame the muppets.

[Equilibruim]

Oh yes oh yes

 

Managed to get a copy of tenancy agreement disproving 1 order completely and disproving 4 months of another

 

Be in touch soon x

[brassnecked]

Oh yes oh yes

 

Managed to get a copy of tenancy agreement disproving 1 order completely and disproving 4 months of another

 

Be in touch soon x

 

Use the evidence as part of a Formal Complaint. No one says someone should not pay, just that they shouldn't pay too much, or pay dodgy fees either.

[Equilibruim]

Use the evidence as part of a Formal Complaint. No one says someone should not pay, just that they shouldn't pay too much, or pay dodgy fees either.

 

Well I received a preliminary breakdown from bailiffs about fees..

 

Date. Account 1. Account 2. Desc

July 13th. 24.50. 24.50. Visit 1

July 20th. 18.00. 18.00. Visit 2

Aug 6. 33.00. 31.00. Levy fee

Aug 6. - 150.00. Attendance / van

 

Okay I'd like to clarify a few things...

 

I thought max visit 1&2 = 42.50 no matter how many liability orders visit is about unless (I read) debt spans more than a year when 42.50 can be charged per year? In which case although I am building a case that we are not liable for one order should the charges have been placed over a number of years or like above is two on the same day acceptable bearing in mind the original l/o spans 2 financial years?

 

Why levy fee? No goods have been listed for levy?

Attendance / van fee? I thought bailiff could not turn up with van (I saw no van anyway) until after peaceful entry had been obtained and goods listed for levy?

 

Do I have grounds for fee fraud?

 

Furthermore date of original debt says 28th march 12, were the council not obligated to give me a 14days notice of passing of debt to collection agency?

 

Also 6/8 was first time I saw bailiff and have had no letter or details left here at the time of these supposed visits 1&2 ?

 

Shall I SARS both bailiff and council? Could I gain useful info?

 

Thanks folks, hope you're enjoying your Friday

Edited August 17, 2012 by Equilibruim

[brassnecked]

No notice of seizure listing goods then? No levy or attendance fee should be charged then imho, as unless they levy after second visit, cannot charge. No Noyice or list left would assume no levy done. they may come back with a fag packet style notice listing your car, or any random motor when pushed on this. May be worth SAR that puts them on strict proof. I feel they may turn up with a retrospective levy, but this could be challenged.

[mellymoo74]

No notice of seizure listing goods then? No levy or attendance fee should be charged then imho, as unless they levy after second visit, cannot charge. No Noyice or list left would assume no levy done. they may come back with a fag packet style notice listing your car, or any random motor when pushed on this. May be worth SAR that puts them on strict proof. I feel they may turn up with a retrospective levy, but this could be challenged.

 

Thanks for this I think that may be my next stage....

[Equilibruim]

Sorry error

Edited August 18, 2012 by Equilibruim

[Equilibruim]

No notice of seizure listing goods then? No levy or attendance fee should be charged then imho, as unless they levy after second visit, cannot charge. No Noyice or list left would assume no levy done. they may come back with a fag packet style notice listing your car, or any random motor when pushed on this. May be worth SAR that puts them on strict proof. I feel they may turn up with a retrospective levy, but this could be challenged.

 

Well they could make goods up but they'd have to be a lucky shot to actually have anything on there of congruence?! They could have levied upon the car but as its an old (not vintage old, broken old!) non runner could be seen as levying to bulk costs and should have come with a breakdown / tow vehicle not a van lol? No I've had no notices accept the one he left on the 06/08 when I saw him, standard copy with blanks hand filled in when I was present...

 

And about that notice.. (was written as if we were not home when they visited) and said they would be back within 24hrs with police) If he actually had any powers he would have rolled up with a police officer (to prevent breach of peace only) an a locksmith there and then or on one of the 'previous' visits. He had no right of entry. That's misrepresentation of powers?

 

So can't see how charges can stand.. I say only 24.50 or possibly double that (2 financial years' debt) 1st visit only.

 

how do I prove they never came before? Or gave notice either?

 

I'm feel overwhelmed today!

 

Thank you all x

[ploddertom]

If they are visiting with more than 1 Liability Order then tehy must be trated as if they were one and there is plenty of documentation where multiple charges are concerned.

 

The object of the Visit from a Bailiff who is collecting for Council Tax is that he is attending you with a view to seizing goods. Only if he cannot elicit a response or denied entry to your home or unable to seize goods outside may he claim his 1st Visit Fee of £24-50. The same is also true of his attendance a second time where he can charge a 2nd Visit Fee of £18-00. It then doesn't matter how many more times he visits if the result is the same he may charge no more. I note you allude to what may be an immoveable vehicle outside which you think he may have levied on when he made a 3rd Visit, if said vehicle was available on his first visit the question has to be why did he not do it then? The answer has to be that he has only done it in order to gain a financial advantage for himself & his company.

 

There is also the question of the Notice of Seizure, it is a legal requirement that this is handed to the person in control or affixed to the goods concerned. If the goods "supposedly" seized are of little or no value then it is also possible to file a Regulation 46 Complaint in the Magistrates Court naming the Council as Defendant.

[brassnecked]

As it stands I think the most they can lawfully claim is £42.50 first and second visit fee, the others are dodgy imho, they will only did themselves a deeper hole if they persist, and you could threaten them with a Regulation 46 complaint as mentioned by ploddertom, if they come up with a last minute levy.