Interview Under Caution letter, scared and ill

[BigGreenForest]

HI, Just in case anybody wants to look, this is a 'sequel' to this from a while back: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?327897-Benefit-Fraud&p=3627119#post3627119

 

I suffer with Severe Depression, ME, anxiety and panica attacks, and Social anxiety disorder, and have also had an operation recently that has left me weak and evenmmore tired than usual.

 

I thought this was all over. The Job Centre investigation team were satisfied that i'd made a mistake, and i paid back the money I owed them. I also received a coulncil tax bill from the Concil at the time saying reason for bill was overpayment, so i paid it and thought I'd paid it back, after the job centre had informed them, and that that was over as well. I cam wwithin an inch of suicide on that occassion, and now it's flared up again at a time when things are even worse.

 

I can barely stya awake at the moment, while I'm recovering from the operation, let alone attmept to concentrate on this matter at an interview under caution.

 

To try and put this into a quick read, my grnadmother, who's now in her 90's was paying for repairs and upkeep on a house I'd been 'handed down' from her, but was way beyond my ability to pay for, due to it's condition. As she was so old, and rather morbidly, convinced she was convinvced she could die anytime, set up an ISA for me and pu the money in there so it was in my name. She told me that ISAs were non-declarable, and I left it at that wihtout a secnd thought.

 

The Job Centre investigation went through, and they were satisfied that I'd made a mistake, and it was apid back, and I got a Council Tax bill shortly after saying 'reason for bill: benefits overpayment', which I thought was from the Council in relation to this, so I paid it and thought nothing more of it, that it was all over everywhere.

 

Now it's come up that I'm up for a serious invesitagiont, reading the leaflet that came with it, it sounds like it's a criminal investigation. I cant deal with it on any level, especially at the moment. Becuase of my conditions I get things back to front or mixed up sometimes, abnd I;m scared of making things worse by accidentally saying something wrong that makes it accidentally look like i deliberately was up to no good.

 

It says something about a solicitor, but I dont understand any of that, how to go about it :(

 

If anybody can give me some advice, I'd be very appreciative. I'm having a chronic panic attack at the moment.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Often the reference to a solicitor means the duty solictor

available at the magistrates court.

Do you have a carer or social worker who can help?

Have you tried your local CAB?

[BigGreenForest]

i dont have anything. With things being as they are politically, and people having their benefots and support stopped, even if they've had it for years, any chance I had of getting anything were practically nill.

The only thing I see I can have is the word of my GP, and she's away at the moment.

 

The last 3-4 years have been absolute hell for me in every conceivable manner. I've had breakdown after breakdown, on top of one serious problem after another, after losing jobs all over the place. The job I got at the time when I signed off fully was a 40hr job doing one thing, but when I got there it worked me an average of 70hr weeks doing lots of other things that I didn;t apply for. It casued me lots of problems on top of my illneseses, both mental and physical, and they fired me when I had to go into hospital.

I only have a trickle of money coming in at the moment from a part-time job that tahankfully is considerate to my operation recovery, but means I have virtually no income. It's a difficult job that involves me speaking to people all day, somethign I'm finding very taxing, excessively stressful and verve-wracking, but I dont have a choice. I cant get any benefits such as DLA or whatever as far as I can tell.

I'm petrified of going to prisoon or having my name in the paper. I cant cope wth exposure of any kind, let alone somethign like this being public. If it did happen that i ended up in ther papr for this, or have prison, then I would comit suicide.

They agreed to postpone the interview with a letter from my GP, but as I said she;s away, so I;m trying to see if I can get some hlpe from another GP at the surgery. But i have only discussed my mental health issues with my own GP, the others are probably unaware of it.

 

I could do with some support for my mental health issues in general, but have no idea about how to do it. I've always tried in the past to cope around it, rather than 'be defeated by it', and work when I could in what I could.

Thanks so much for your help and advice, I'll ask them about the solicitor you mentioned

[BigGreenForest]

i just treid ringing the CAB, and ogt a useless automated line that cost 5p per minute and told me that there was nobdy there to speak to. Not much help at all

[BigGreenForest]

Often the reference to a solicitor means the duty solictor

available at the magistrates court.

Do you have a carer or social worker who can help?

Have you tried your local CAB?

 

I just spoke to them, and they say a duty solicitor isn't right. I have to have a criminal litigation solicitor. I've been trying around them locally, and the cost is massive.

I found one locally that came across as more sympathetic and less 'business', which made them seem better to me.

[kk3852]

Is the house that was 'handed down' to you registered in your name? Is the ISA that you mention here the same savings as you mention in your other post, or is this something different?

 

If it is the same amount of savings which was previously dealt with then it has already been dealt with....if this is a different set of savings then it will be said that you had your chance to inform the DWP when you were seen last time. It would have been fully explained the last time that you had to declare all sorts of savings and you would have probably signed a statement saying that this had been explained to you.

 

If you are going to try to find a solicitor to go with you to the interview you can always ring the investigator and ask that the appointment be rescheduled or you can take someone else with you as moral support. If you do take someone, it cant be a person who is connected to the investigation - for example your grandma who you say put the money into an ISA for you.

 

The important thing now is to identify whether these are other savings which you had in addition to those that were dealt with the last time. And whose name the house is registered in.

[sallypotter]

Seems to me they want to do an Interview Under Caution.

 

My advice, go along and see what they put to you.

 

Say you can't remember or don't know to their questions, don't admit you know anything.

 

If they want to prosecute don't worry.

 

Get yourself a solicitor dealing in "benefit fraud".

 

Tell him/her you had an IUC without an appropriate adult present, as you are a VULNERABLE ADULT under PACE you should have had one.

 

The taped IUC will them be inadmissable in court but you will know some of the evidence they have on you and what it is all about.

 

Sod the papers, more than half of what they print is inaccurate. No one cares, lots of people are finding themselves in the same situation.

 

All the best,

Sal

[BigGreenForest]

Thanks for the help

 

The solicitor was really good thankfully. He understaood it all, and the doctor also gave me a note to explain both my current poor state of health after a recent operation, and mental health issues.

 

Everything here is, as far as I understand it, exactly the same as what happened before, just this time with the Council regarding Council Tax benefit between 08-11. THey would not speak to be, but they did to tho the solicitor, and it all fitted, and it sounded lke what they had was information aopssed onto them by the job centre. I'm at a total loss here, as the Job Centre people in the end did understand where I went worng, and were good enough to help me sort out what i owed them, and I put it right easily in the end. Surely if they passed all the information onto the COuncil Tax peple, they'd have all the same informaion, know where I went wrong, and that it wasn't malitious, and done in error.

 

At the same time all this happened with the Job Centre last year, I had a bill from the Council Tax labelled at the top 'reason for bill: benefits overpayment'. I thoguht that this was as a result of the job centre telling them what had happened, and they'd billed me accordingly. I paid it and thought it was over and done with. The Job Centre compliance team told me it was all over.

 

The things that happened last time quite literally nearly killed me. The mental health issues I suffer from make 'normal life' as difficult as possible on a day-to-day basis, and the last four or so years have been on a worse than ever downward spiral. I find work difficult, but try to do what I can, and have on 3 occasons in that time, been forced of out jobs I could do in unfair cases of bullying, intimidation and corruption. I am at the lowest ebb ever, and when this all happened last year suicide (never far from my mind) came so close no happening nearyl every night. I've worked out how to do it now, so it should be easy and succesful. If they prosecute, it'll be instantaneous, as I really cant cope with anything more.

 

Regarding dome of the above comments, my memory is a mess anyway, so I'm not sure i can generally rember things as it is, but i think this will go against me, as I may get somethgin wrong in the interview and they'll think I've been lying.

 

All I know is that, as far as I was aware, I was doing thigns correctly. The money in the ISa was money that my grandmother put there, and I was told it wasn't declarable, so I never thought about it again. It wasn't even my momeny, and it was there for house manintenance the sol reason it existed in account unde rmy name was becuase my grandmother was worried about dying and me being left without anything to try to get ther place mantained. I didn;t know how much was there (I cant cope with forms, statements etc, so I never look at them), was told (erronously) it wasn't declarable, and at the end of the day, it wasn't, and still isn't even technically my money anyway.

 

The Tax people told the solictior that I had 13 occasions in the 2 years to tell them of changes to my capital on forms, but I dont recall that at all. When I had part-time work and earnings, I filled in a very small form each time to tell them where the job was, what I was getting, and gave them my payslips to copy. All I can assume is that this is what they mean, and that I was supposed to put it on there? But why would I? I was under the impression it wasn't declarable, and thought nothing of it, so it never even occured to me. The other issue u have is my bad dyslexia, along with my social phobia nd panic attacks make forms extrememyl difficult for me to fill in. If there was a question in there about ISA's (which I dont recall), I probably wouldnt have even registred it. I filled in what I knew, and thought I was doing everything right.

 

At the moment I keep 'going blank', somethign that happens sometimes when my depression, confusion, anxity and panic attacks get to extreme, and my mind goes off completely. It's like being comatose or catatonic or something i suppose, but i can;t think at all, and i just sit there unable to do or say anything. I'm worried that this will happeb during the interview, and the solicitor said he would stop the interview if that happened.

 

But I don't understand what all this is for at the end of the day. If they have the information from the job centre, they know what happned, so why call me in about it, just to hear the same thing all over again? If I owe them money still, then what was the 'benfit overpayment' bill I already paid off? Why is it suddenly happeing now, monthst later, when I t was all supposed to be over?

It all sounds as if they're out to do me, regardless of what was the reason behind it, or even if there is a problem.

 

I'm still so confused it all.

[sallypotter]

Did you sign any forms for the ISA?

 

Surely if you didn't, then you didn't apply for it.

 

Sal

[BigGreenForest]

Is it true that if the overpayment turns out to be over £2000 then they automatically prosecute? I'm beyond petrified. I keep going totally blank, I cant think at all. I'm hoping that the Solicitor can just deal with this with me there, becasue i feel like I'm going to pass out all the time, my stress and anxiety levels are off the scale. I have no idea how much they think they overpaid me, hopefully it's nowhere near that amount, as I was often singed off, or getting reduced amounts while working part-time. Knowing how bad things happen to me endlessly, it'll probably be way over £2000.

 

They just want to do me, I know that.

 

I'm still trying to figure out if there's possibly anymore help I can get for my conditions. I have a note from the doctor that covers some of the mental health problems I have, but they'll probably still press for prosecution regardless. I made a new will out last week in preparation. If I do somehow get through this, I know I need more help for my mental health issues that got me into this mess in the first place, but have no idea where to look or start.

[Nystagmite]

I know I need more help for my mental health issues that got me into this mess in the first place, but have no idea where to look or start.

 

Are you under the mental health team?

[BigGreenForest]

I guess not, as I've never heard of a mental health team. I'm just getting 'primary care' from my Doctor at this point. WHich is just discussing the problems, and some degree of medication.

 

When this all flared up last year, it really hit me hard how bad my problems were, and that at the root of eveything, they were to blame. Prior to that, I'd been working on what I could do (a very small niche of jobs), with a dgree of benefits when I had to. I thought I was doing it right. I was, despite all the problems, managing to scape through, always looking for somethign that could be permanant and suitable, and only using benefits when I had to. Never played the system, never had benefits when there was work I could do etc, etc. Then this happened (at the worst low I've ever had, in an awful 4 year run of serious problem after serious problem), and it shattered everything. It essentailly changed my past for me. Suddenly I'd got it all wrong, I'd made mitakes, and big ones at that, that had got me into trouble.

 

I'd never looked at my bank accounts (still dont now), or what my Grandmother was doing due to the mix of depression, social anxitey disorder (which affects things like Knocks at the door, ringing phones or post, basically any knid of contact which may present problmes) and dyslexia. There was a lot else I never did right, or just couldnt take in correctly, clearly including benefits forms now.

 

Anyway, the problems I have do seem to be getting worse as time goes on, adn the rate at which I'm 'deteriorating' seems to be accelerating as well.

 

I have: Social Phobia/Social Anxitey disorder, Severe depression with suicidal tendencies, M.E./Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Anxiety and Panic Attacks with heart issues when it's at its worst, hayfever, bad dyslexia, dizzy and unsteady spells, possibly also forms of photo-sensitive epilipsy (haven;t had an episode in 15-20 or so years, maybe it goes away?) and/or a mild form of autism. I am also recovering from an operation at a mich slower rate than expected (it in itself worrying) that has exagerated everythgin else by the looks of it, and a bony lump seems to be growing on my skull, whether or not thats something to wrry about at this point, I'm not sure.

 

I just dont know what to do anymore. I dont want benefits. I signed off partly becuase of the money from the inheritance, but I was going to anyway, as I couldnt stand it any longer. The job centre degradation and bullying, and trying to force me into jobs that I just couldn't do was driving me nuts. It was hard enough to go there in the forst place, and I pretty much had a panic everytime I had to go.

The one and only job that I was ever really any good at, and could do to a point where I could work around my problems, is a dead worthless line now, and my skills are worthless. I've tried looking into other things, but it's pointless. It coosts too much and takes too long to get trained up i new skills, and with my problems, I'd probably not even be able to do the job in the end anyway.

I got fired from my alst job for 'looking tired', and making a lot of mistakes, and now have an awful one that I can;t cope with either. I can;t seem to find anything, looking at adverts, that I can really deal with

 

I've been really reluctant to 'admit defeat' by my mental health problems, but I dont see what I can do. DLA doesn't seem to support these types of issues as far as I can tell, and I won;t keep my new job for long.

 

Around all that I've got this benefits investigation and interview under caution going on, something I was told was all done with last year, and the endless 'pummeling me down' just isn't ceasing.

I really can;t cope with it at all. I jjst want it all to stop, I need to get out somehow. I dont know where to look or turn.

[Stan Lee]

I could do with some support for my mental health issues in general, but have no idea about how to do it. I've always tried in the past to cope around it, rather than 'be defeated by it', and work when I could in what I could. Thanks so much for your help and advice, I'll ask them about the solicitor you mentioned

 

Within your own surgery there may be a nurse who specialises in CBT/psycho-analysis, and/or a GP with a specialist interest in psychiatric issues. The GP is the gateway to referral for psychiatric evaluation by psychiatrists proper, and so you could speak to your GP about a referral if you cannot cope with the way things are at the moment.

 

If you need a GP on side imminently, it may be worth trying another GP in the surgery, as they will have access to all your notes on the computer system.

[Stan Lee]

BigGreenForrest, just to clarify, does this interview pertain to the Council Tax you have already paid back? If so, you'll know if the figure is over two grand. It's also worth checking your LAs prosecution policy: the LA south from me are broadly in line with DWP guidance, whilst my own LA sets the figure for automatic referral for consideration of prosecution much higher.

 

Also, for a prosecution to occur, it has to be deemed to be in the public interest. The fact that it seems that compliance dealt with this in the job centre instead of CFIS (that is, if it is for the same issue as last year), coupled with your own ill-health, might will mean that the worst case scenario is not inevitable. I don't want to sugar coat things, but at the same time, prosecution is not an automatic factor.

[BigGreenForest]

Hi, thanks for the more help.

 

I cant recall how much I paid back last year, but I'm sure it was under £1000. I cant recall exact figures, but I can recall 'blocks' in terms of digits etc, so I'm sure I'm right on that. Other possibilty that's been occuring to me is th that they might want more? Maybe that amount was only part of what I was overpaid? I dont know how all this works. Given how long after my meeting at the job centre this is (nearly 7 months), I'm thinking they've been doing some knd of long drageed out investigation, trying to find everythign they can to incriminate me. I'm worried aboute verything, based on some things I've seen/heard/read, such as a female frined I have, the one and only person I talk to about my problems, who is the only person who really comes to my home, being labelled up as my partnetr, and getting accused of somethgin to do with that. I'm paranoid that I've been followed, phone bugged, everything. For me with my Social Anxiety Disorder, to find out that somethgin like that had been done to me, and even in my own home I've been being watched, is horrifying.

I dont know how all this goes, but the amount of time its taken between my meeting eith the job centre and this is strange. Why would it take so long?

 

I cant find anything relating to how my council operate in terms of policy onm overpayments. I'll have to find out on the day I suppose.

[Stan Lee]

Well, if a solicitor has spoken to the investigators, and they've told them that this pertains to the same period in question as the compliance team at the job centre had previously looked at, then that's an indication that there is nothing 'new' on the table. You cant be sure of it, but the solicitor is supposed to receive all the information required to properly advise his or her client. Also, i the overpayment is under a thousand pounds, then that will probably reduce the chances of a court referral.One of the other posters on here, Jadeybags, has been quite open about receiving an interview under caution because she was overpaid over £500 and it was the council's fault. Unfortunately for her, the L.A. whose jurisdiction she falls under have an automatic policy of providing a criminal interview for people who are overpaid over £500, irrespective of the cause.

 

Anyway, it's clear that there are a lot of variables at hand and I'm just spitballing. The point is, while I wouldn't want you to skip to the interview whistling 'don't worry be happy' with not a care in the world, please be aware that the worst case scenario is just that, and that there are other possibilities. One thing I would suggest is that you try and make contact with your local Welfare Rights if you have them in your area (google to check).

[BigGreenForest]

i need to do a lot. One thing that came to light as a reault of this last year was how much more my mental health issues were affectign me that I directly relaized. It wasnt just the things I was facing, but things I wasnt aware of. It's just trying to get it all dealt with in some semblance of working order.

It doesn't help that my conditions cause me to get confused and have withdrawlal or panic attacks, or that I find it hard to speak to people at the best of times.

I can't even get the ball rlolling with thying to get help wheile I have to keep dealing with things like this.

 

The Council Tax people will clearly have a copy of the statement i made at the job centre compliance, so they'll already know what went wrong. I dont know why this is coming up so long after. It's why I'm so worried that they think I've been up to somethgn else. I cant see why they'd need to bring the same thing up again.

 

I'll speak to the solicitor again tomorrow, a day ahead of the itnerview, and see if there's anything new.

[BigGreenForest]

it didn't go very well at all. They seemed to be pretty sure I'd been trying to pull a big cover up. They're gong to extened the investigation back 10 years. God help me if I've made any more mistakes that far back as well.

 

They asked for my medical records to prove my problems, but becuase I didn't see the dicotor about my issues until last year, and kept them to myself prior to that, there's virtually no records at all. What does exist is very recent, and I'm not even sure how much of it my GP put on record from our discussions. She's off on maternity leave at the moment, so I cant even see her directly about the problems. There's no way I can prove it that I have these problems.

 

On a similar line, they did an internet search on me and found some local and student flms i'd helped out on, a few years back. They think I've been making a load of money from these that I've been hiding away and not decarling. There's no way I can prove that this isn't the case either.

 

I was in a terrible state in the interview, I kept blanking out and shaking, and the solicitor said that maybe it shouldv'e been stopped, but the results in another one wouldv'e been the same, so I chose to carry on.

 

This is ging to go on and on and on, and they're determined to do me for everything that they can by the looks of it.

I've made my final decision, and this on top of all the other non-stop issues I've had have made me decide that it's definately time to call it a day. All this is way beyond my ability to cope.

[Ellla]

Hi BigGreenForest

 

I've just read your thread and want to extend my help if possible. I understand that the stress and anxiety you're under can feel overwhelming. Please know that you aren't alone and as difficult as things may seem at present they WILL get better, there is ALWAYS light at the end of the tunnel but you can't give up...I also have mental health isses brought on by long term illness and understand how completely overwhelming dealing with life's anxieties can feel.

 

Please take one day at a time and try not to dwell on your problems, I know that's hard but it only makes them larger than life. Please talk with someone you can call Samaritans 08457 90 90 90 or email them [email protected] http://www.samaritans.org/and please pray about your situation. Some scriptures I have found helpful "Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that excels all thought will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.”—Philippians 4:6, 7.● “Jehovah is near to those that are broken at heart; and those who are crushed in spirit he saves.”—Psalm 34:18.

 

Please also consult your Doctor ASAP for further help, ask to be referred for Cognitive Behaviour Therapy or similar if you haven't already.

 

Although we may not know you personally we care about you and your well being. I have and will continue to pray that you are able to overcome these feelings of despair. I can't PM you because I'm new but please feel free to message me.

PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP THERE IS HOPE AND THINGS WILL GET BETTER!

[Stan Lee]

Ella is right mate- if you feel that bad it's worth calling the samaritans-- they won't try and talk you out of anything but they'll let you unload. Try and get in touch with a different doctor- I work closely with allied health professions and it should be easy to get another Doctor on side.

 

These people are fishing, and you've not done anything wrong. The Crown Prosecution doesn't want to take on any cases they they don't know for sure aren't a slam dunk, and since compliance has already cleared you of intent, then it would seem lthere is certainly a question mark over how strong the case against you is.

 

But this is not an immediate concern; getting you well is. Phone the Samaritans; phone your surgery, ask for a phone back from a Doctor, and talk to them.

[Stan Lee]

Oh, any time you to speak to a Doctor, it goes in your records. This protects them as well in case of a negligence suit; they're told to do it. Your records might be more thorough than you think.

[BigGreenForest]

thanks for the support and advice, but I've pretty much made my decision about calling it a day. Things are in motion now to tie up a few loose ends and make sure my dog is rehomed.

This mess with the DWP/Council tax is not an isolated 'nightmare' for me. Terrible things just happen endlessly, they always have, and even if I somehow pull through tis, there'll just be somethine else worse waiting. It's only ever gotten worse as time goes on, not better.

Frankly I just can't keep fighting and battling on anymore. Everyday by itself, with my conditions, is a nightmare in it's own right, even without all this trouble, and I'm totally exhausted from it all. I just can't keep battling and losing endlessly anymore.

 

I have made an appointment to see the doctor regardless.

My biggest concern about yesterday's interview though, as the evening went on, is that I probably got somethign wrong in it. As it's under caution, recorded, and used as evidence in court, if I got confused and said the wrong thing, then it'll make it even worse. There's just no way to get anything right here.

[sallypotter]

I can understand your words, they could have been written by me.

 

What is the worst that could happen though?

 

Please answer.

[BigGreenForest]

it's already happening.

 

it's like having my mind overloaded with a pain and fear that is so far beyond my means to cope, with an extreme non-stop victimization from one party or antoher. As I said this isn't the first time this has happened to me (although it is so far the worst), Ive always been blamed for things I haven;t done, and always found myself in situations wher eit's virtually impossible for me to prove my side.

Literally it's always just one after another. It's so bltatant that this is going to go very badly, there's no need to wait to see it out, and I just can't deal with it anyway.

Frankly, there's no point in going through with this and coming out the other side, rposecuted or not, it's too much in itself, and there is no light at the end of my tunnel.

[Stan Lee]

It's good to hear from you mate. I was thinking about you during the night.

 

It's good that you've made an appointment to see a Doctor: please tell him or her everything, and ask for referral either to a specialist in the practise, or the community mental health team (preferably).

 

You've gone through a hell of a stressful experience, no one can deny that. Sallypotter is right though -- this might not end up being as bad as you think.

 

What you need is specialist, non-judgemental advice. Make an appointment with CAB or Welfare Rights if you can, and tell them the story. They (especially Welfare Rights) will be able to go through your past claiming history and check whether or not there have been any more errors. It is very possible that there hasn't been.

 

Remember, even if the case against you isn't very strong, the fraud investigators were never going to tell you that in an interview, or go easy on you. For better or for worse, they're meant to give you a hard time (in a polite way), as horrible as it is.

 

But try and get some more advice about this, if you can.