Making a claim against an ex-friend on sum of unpaid 'loan' - ** WON **

[wrecked]

Hi Mike

 

thanks for your reply - yes i guess so

I still hv not received the directions and hv written to the court.

As soon as i receive them i will advise you.

 

thanks very much

wrecked.

[wrecked]

 

hi Mike,

 

Finally received the directions from the Judge this morning as below

 

I think its actually seem to be in my favour - please see what you think and please comment as you see fit

 

 

Notice of Allocation to the small claims track (Hearing)

 

Upon the defendant admitting that he has received the sum of £ XXXX and it appearing to the court that the issue is whether the money has been repaid.

 

it is ordered that

 

1. Claimant's application for summary judgment be dismissed

2. Allocate to the small claims track

 

3. All parties are to disclose to each other by 25th October 2012 copies of all relevant documents to include bank statements, wage slips, and any other documentary evidence of the loan and its repayment

 

4. the parties are to include in the documents witness statements of all witnesses upon whim the parties intend to rely including themselves. The statements must end with the words " I believe that the contents of this statement are true" and the statement must be signed and dated.

 

5. set down for hearing at 10 am on 13 Nov. at XXX county court - allow 2 hours

 

A hearing fee of £ 165 is payable by 18 October by the claimant unless you make an application for a fee concession.

 

the court is to be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date

 

+++++

 

i did not copy out word for word after point 5.

 

the judge's comment ..

 

a. The issue is whether the money has been repaid

b. point 3 - which states

All parties are to disclose to each other by 25th October 2012 copies of all relevant documents to include bank statements, wage slips, and any other documentary

evidence of the loan and its repayment (and witness statements)

 

and - there is no mention of the counter claim at all - i wonder why??

 

I shall be very grateful for any ideas, comments and contributions.

 

many thanks/Wrecked.

 

[AndyOrch]

Standard Notice of Allocation to SCT Wrecked...your next step is to download the N265 and prepare your Standard Disclosure.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wrecked]

HI Andy

Good to see you. Thanks very much - this is great - i am not familiar with this. So i complete this form and attach my docs. but excluding witness statements?

The only docs I can disclose are my old bank statements and the loan agreement. Theres nothing else in my possession. Warm regards/Wrecked.

[AndyOrch]

Yes the N265 is for documents you have referred to or wish to rely upon supporting your Claim..... WS comes after disclosure with simultaneous exchange check your dates.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wrecked]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks Andy -

the judge ordered that all docs. including WS are to be submitted at the same time. - so its disclosure at the same time and i am the claimant.

best/Wrecked.

[wrecked]

Hi Mike, Hi Andy

 

Just to give you a heads up that as expected the other side did not reply or respond to my CPR 31.14 request.

i have a bit of a mental block at the moment - can you pl advise me how i can use this when preparing my docs for submission?

many thanks/Wrecked

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Wrecked

 

Probably simplest to refer to it within your w/s, the order is for disclosure by 25th so he has a few days yet to consider whether to supply you with a list of docs he intends to rely on.

 

How are you getting on with your w/s?

[wrecked]

Hi Mike

 

i dont think he is going to send me anything. My statements are taking time to come but i shall have nearly all of them by Friday.

Thanks Mike

All the best/wrecked

[wrecked]

Hi Mike

I am pretty much ready now and if you dont mind i will send a short PM later today and you can see what you think

thanks wrecked

[AndyOrch]

It may be prudent to post your WS to the thread Wrecked once finalised for a wider opinion..as you aware the Site does not condone advice by PM..unless there is something sensitive/confidential within the WS.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wrecked]

HI Andy

Thanks for your message. Yes good point - i did not think of that. Its my paranoia. I am really concerned that the other side is reading this thread. I see that its had over 2400 reads.

 

I am preparing the WS - its not completed yet, but should be by tonight or tmrw morning. I can now prove beyond any doubt that no repayment has been made to my loan nor did i deduct any amount or withheld any amount from any money due.

 

But where do i stand with the counter claim? as there is nothing on my side. When there was no work - there was no reason to hire his services so there would be no payment.

he worked, i paid..... thats basically is it.

 

all the best/Wrecked.

[Mike_hawk]

The other side need to prove the counter claim, if neither party has any records evidencing employment it would be a harsh judge to grant any relief based on hearsay.

[wrecked]

HI Mike

thank you - there are no documentation to substantiate any agreement.

regards/Wrecked.

[wrecked]

Hi

I am currently trying to go through the statement from the other side. I will get back to you

All the documents were mixed up as they were not bound properly. its been really difficult to correlate the exhibits with the title sheets.

 

Should he not have taken care to ensure they were all in order?

 

Theres a whole bunch of detail which are not really related to whether there has been deductions in the repayment of the loan....as was the main clause in his defense

 

will be back in touch tmrw

 

all the best/Wrecked.

[wrecked]

Hi Andy, Mike,

 

The deadline for swapping docs. passed on 25 Oct. But in his statement he made some claims which are untrue. I will need to submit additional witness statements to substantiate these claims. Is it possible to submit these before 7 days from the date of the hearing as they are in response to his witness statement? These are relevant as it will show very well that he has been lying about most things in his defense.

 

All the best/Wrecked.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Wrecked

 

To facilitate the submission of a supplemental WS you need to request the permission of the other party and the Courts permission.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wrecked]

HI Andy

 

thanks for yr reply. So basically,

 

1. i dont submit any further documentation, not even a a reply to his Witness statement,.

2. wait till the hearing and put my points across.

3. do I do this in the form of another statement or,

4. just hv my points/reply prepared and then hand over to the judge and the other side?

5. or will it be a situation where i have to speak, cross examine etc.? ...

6. or just listen to the Judge who would decide based on these statements already submitted.

 

thanks/Wrecked.

[wrecked]

HI Andy

 

i forgot to ask - can i produce any additional W/S at the time of the hearing?

thanks/Wrecked

[AndyOrch]

Wrecked you can submit what ever you like as long as its pre 7 days and you have permission/consent to.

 

Andy

[wrecked]

Hi Andy

yes thanks very much. He's put in stuff which are untrue. I want to show/highlight these lies and the only way is with a couple of new witness statements

i will write to the court and to him and say that i like to add a couple of witness statements.I guess he would refuse, and i dont think i will hear from the Court in time.

I think it likely that i would not hear from the other side or the court so i could try my hand and submit them 7 days before the hearing date.

 

There is one more issue Andy - i think you can help me with this. In checking my files and bank statements i realised that he owes me some more money which he borrowed on a different date. its more recent and i cannot believe my own stupidity. My question is can i serve him a second writ for this ... as a separate case? If I can do this, should i do it now, or wait for the outcome of this?

 

thanks Andy

Wrecked.

[AndyOrch]

As long as the WS are submitted pre 7 days and served you will be ok (speed the process by ringing your court and getting permission)

With regards to your other point you can add this but you would need permission to alter the figure and as long as the facts are the same ( IE same plea) then you shouldn't need to alter your Particulars.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[wrecked]

HI Andy

many thanks for yr fast reply. i hv written to court and Defendant. i will phone court on Monday. i dont want to apply to get permission to change the value of this claim. So I think it better to issue a separate claim. Then its nice and clean. I will keep u up to speed. thanks again /Wrecked.

[wrecked]

Hi Andy, Hi Mike

 

The hearing took place but was adjourned as only one of my witnesses could attend. (BTW there were genuine reasons why the others could not attend) and a new date will be given to me. But i am now even MORE UNCLEAR as to how to proceed because the following happened:

 

a. the Judge admitted that he had not read all the witness statements fully as there were a lot of documents.

b. he asked a few questions to the Defendant on who did his PAYE and NI etc. and after a bunch of questions from the Judge the Defendant finally admitted that he was/is self employed and i paid him for work he carried out

c. Judge asked Defendant if he kept a record of his repayments to me and the Defendant said "no " - he then went on to say that he thought that i had kept the records.

d. Judge then asked him to put a repayment schedule together.

 

Its quite incredible that with the admissions the Defendant made as outlined above, the Judge should have thrown out the defense as clearly the Defendant cannot prove that he repaid the loan. (it does not really matter about the witnesses)

 

This is why I say that the Defendant is extremely lucky. He's now going to come back with some made up repayment schedule which he cannot substantiate. He has already admitted to the Judge that - he did not keep a record..... and he said he "thought" I did.

 

The other issue is, in his statement, he's put in so much waffle and i can prove that they are all waffle as he got dates and other facts wrong. But there was no evidence what so ever on the repayment. just a statement that he had repaid it.

 

I asked the Judge to continue with the hearing and finish it but he said as he had not read everything he will adjourn the case. I said that there really was no need to adjourn as the Defendant had already admitted that he did not keep a record ...etc. but i could not swing it.

 

I am really interested to hear your comments on this please.

many thanks

Wrecked.

[unclebulgaria67]

As soon as the judge said that they had not read all the paperwork, it was going to be adjourned. They did not have much choice.