My son sold his car now the buyer wants £200 towards engine work

[daz395]

Hi

 

Im writing this on behalf of my son who has final exams and is too upset to concentrate.

 

He advertised his V reg 1.6 tuned Corsa on ebay with a buy it now of £1110, he was emailed buy a lad from Essex who said 'I cant tell you how much I want this car!' so he said please keep it for me until mine is sold and sent a £50 deposit through paypal which my son put towards getting a garage to check the car over as it had been stood for over 3 months in the garage. He emailed last week to say his car was now sold and could he pick the Corsa up Sat morning, my son said as long as you have insurance sorted thats fine. So he arrived with his mate on Saturday morning about 8.45, went to give my son the money in cash, so my son said no please test drive it first.

 

I was watching through the front window, and this guy who is 17 floored the car up the street in first and second (its a built up area so speed limit is 30mph) my son asked his mate why he would go into such debt with insurance to buy this car and travel nearly 300 miles to North Wales to pick it up, he said cos my car is faster than his. He came back with a wide smile on his face (the car has a mantzel box fitted adding 20bhp) and handed the money over, came in to sign the paperwork and left.

 

At 2pm my son gets a phone call, the car has gone through all of its oil and needs a new engine I want money back towards it. I said to my son ignore it he test drove it and paid up.

 

Today (Monday) he gets a text message from this guy, stating its going to cost £1000 to put the engine right and his mechanic said the engine has not been reconditioned as my son had stated. Well I went to pick the engine up with him, and in total paid £800 to buy the engine and get it fitted, the engine was checked over before it was fitted by my mechanic and was given a clean bill of health. But this guy disputed its ever had any work done and wants £200 towards the work of he's taking my son to the small claims court as his mother is a lawyer and my son will lose and have to pay the court costs on top of the £200.

 

My son never gave a receipt but Im not sure if that matters anyway does it? As far as Im aware its buyer beware in UK law and all SH cars are sold as seen. But my son is in his final year with Airbus and is doing final exams for the next few weeks and obviously cant take time off to drive 270 miles to attend court. But again is more upset at being called a liar. This 17yr is using bullying tactics trying to get this money, Ive told my son to stop all contact with him.

 

Who is in the right here? I myself have put over £1200 into that car, the engine was fitted and tuned by the current autograss champion so he should know what hes doing and talking about/ Its upset the whole family as Ive had three strokes over the past few years and cant be doing with more stress.

 

I hope you can advise us what to do here

 

Many thanks

Daz

[crem]

In essence, you are correct, i.e. it is buyer beware regarding private sales of cars. The only exception to that would be if the buyer could claim the car was mis-described within the advert thereby misleading him into buying it. I presume you are happy to maintain that the car was correctly described?

 

If so, then there should be no legal avenue for the buyer to pursue and he is probably, as you suspect, trying to use scare tactics on you to get some refund.

 

There are some excellent members on CAG who are more closely associated with the 2dn hand car market who I am sure will chip in on your post shortly so hang fire for some more (hopefully) reassuring posts.

[daz395]

Many thanks for this swift reply, my son still has the original advert for the recon engine, I have the cheque stub for fitting it receipt I havent yet found but we will have it somewhere, and we have photo's of the full rebuild along with receipts for the crank being ground, valves being fitted, bores honed and rings etc. The only annoying problem we have is that my son has deleted all the emails and phone number for the guys we bought the engine from in Middlesbrough. They seem to be disputing that the engine was ever touched but this just isnt true, who would pay £400 to have a knackered engine fitted? If he drove the car home the way he test drove it, then Im hardly surprised he's blown the engine.

 

The last text message has just come through 'see you in court you sold me a faulty car' they just wont leave him alone.

[sailor sam]

I concur with Crem. SOGA does not to apply to private sales unless you falsely advertise. Seems like (as you say) the 'boy racer' has blown the engine by the way he has driven it.

 

Personally I am surprised a 17 year old can get affordable insurance to drive a 1.6 these days.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Conniff
correct typo

[Bang!]

The expression "all mouth and no action" springs to mind.

[daz395]

Hiya Sam

 

I did question that fact myself, apparently he found a three month at a time policy or something. It seems odd that a car my son used daily for work, for over a year suddenly blows up after one day of ownership. Would you think that two young guys, each in a car would drive like a granny all the way home? I don't, I also thought the word lawyer was an American term... Ive always known them to be solicitors.

 

Im just annoyed that my son is being put through all this at the most important time of his apprenticeship.

[daz395]

Hi Bang I did think that, but you never know if his mother is a 'lawyer' they may just go for it, probably thinking he'll pay up rather than take a day off work plus near on 600 miles worth of fuel.

[sailor sam]

Hiya Sam

 

I did question that fact myself, apparently he found a three month at a time policy or something. It seems odd that a car my son used daily for work, for over a year suddenly blows up after one day of ownership. Would you think that two young guys, each in a car would drive like a granny all the way home? I don't, I also thought the word lawyer was an American term... Ive always known them to be solicitors.

 

Im just annoyed that my son is being put through all this at the most important time of his apprenticeship.

 

Well from what I know of VX engines of that era, it wouldn't take much miss-use to do damage. I think your assumption isn't far away from the reality of the situation. If his mother really is a 'lawyer', then it won't be long before he finds out the legal phrase 'not a leg to stand on'.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Bang!]

I would suspect most mothers irrespective of their professions would be glad the less time their boy racer offspring spent driving.

 

Lawyer is generally collectively used for solicitors and barristers in England, and solicitors and advocates in Scotland. When applied to one person, its normally a solicitor. "Attorney" is generally used in america.

 

There is one last thing that concerns me - and I have sent you a message regarding this. If anyone running the forum has concerns about this and cannot see the message themselves I will copy it to them and they will see why it was sent this way. I don't know how the forum rules work with this.

[daz395]

Really? I know tuned engines are pretty volatile so just assumed thats whats happened, it was estimated to be around the 160bhp mark. For a little 1.6 engine it was a rapid car. Ive not much experience with Vauxhall to be honest we've only had this one, and it cost me a fortune to get it running perfectly. The thought he's blew it up gets my back up after all the money I poured into it. Im hoping he does just let it drop, I think we've all bought S/H cars in the past and they've needed money spending on them almost immediately. I bought a Rover 214 (yea I know) which needed a head gasket doing the day after I bought it making my pocket £490 lighter. I never went crying back to the guy I bought it off as I stupidly never checked the expansion tank or the oil filler cap. My own fault.

[daz395]

I would suspect most mothers irrespective of their professions would be glad the less time their boy racer offspring spent driving.

 

Lawyer is generally collectively used for solicitors and barristers in England, and solicitors and advocates in Scotland. When applied to one person, its normally a solicitor. "Attorney" is generally used in america.

 

There is one last thing that concerns me - and I have sent you a message regarding this. If anyone running the forum has concerns about this and cannot see the message themselves I will copy it to them and they will see why it was sent this way. I don't know how the forum rules work with this.

 

 

 

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up, its just not a term of speech Im used to hearing, possibly as I live in Wales maybe.

 

You're probably right there I know we all worry about our kids when they get out on the road. How do I check this message you sent me? I never use the forums.

[Bang!]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/usercp.php

 

I think that should open it - failing that "Notifications" at the top near the right of the page.

[daz395]

Found it and replied, many thanks! I just had a message saying I can only reply to 6 posts or something....

[sailor sam]

Really? I know tuned engines are pretty volatile so just assumed thats whats happened, it was estimated to be around the 160bhp mark. For a little 1.6 engine it was a rapid car. Ive not much experience with Vauxhall to be honest we've only had this one, and it cost me a fortune to get it running perfectly. The thought he's blew it up gets my back up after all the money I poured into it. Im hoping he does just let it drop, I think we've all bought S/H cars in the past and they've needed money spending on them almost immediately. I bought a Rover 214 (yea I know) which needed a head gasket doing the day after I bought it making my pocket £490 lighter. I never went crying back to the guy I bought it off as I stupidly never checked the expansion tank or the oil filler cap. My own fault.

 

That is some achievement as the then stock 1598cc 16V VX Corsa only produces around 104bhp. Point I was making is that they don't like to be 'floored' for long periods.

 

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[daz395]

Ahh I see they must be inherently weak then? It 'was' certainly a hell of a car I only went in it once and came out near crippled as the suspension was almost solid with it being lowered.

[daz395]

Thanks all the replies, its put his mind at rest.

I doubt he will start court proceedings but his text messages seem to state he will do.

My son was talking to a few of his mates in Airbus today and they said well you're in the Union, phone up for your free 30 minutes of advice with a solicitor. So he did, and was asked if the lad had a technician with him to check the car over before he bought it, my son replied no he only had a mate with him and wasnt even going to test drive it.

 

She said well he wont get past the first question in court as thats the first question they will ask him. The second question will be was the car in a roadworthy condition, well obviously yes it still has almost 12 months MOT on it and was serviced the day before he bought it. Then they will ask if he had chance to test drive the vehicle and was he happy with it... well he paid up and drove away so that kind of answers itself. So my son said yes but Im worried I'll have to take a day off work and travel 270 miles. The solicitor said, it will be dealt with via a phone call as they wont expect you to drive all that way.

 

Anyway, if he gets a summons or anything I will keep you posted with the date.

 

A BIG thanks to everyone who've replied here its really been a great help.

 

Regards

Daz and Kris.

Edited May 23, 2012 by MARTIN3030

[heliosuk]

The second question will be was the car in a roadworthy condition, well obviously yes it still has almost 12 months MOT on it and was serviced the day before he bought it. .

 

"IF" in the very, very unlikely event the buyer takes action you need to keep very quiet about the service. There is a vast amount of evidence around to show that major mechanical failures are due to a result of very recent maintenance!! Further never rely on an MOT as evidence that a car is roadworthy.

 

Don't think it will come to anything anyway.........just a bit of Essex boy Bravado. Buyer not from Basildon/Southend by any chance?

[daz395]

"IF" in the very, very unlikely event the buyer takes action you need to keep very quiet about the service. There is a vast amount of evidence around to show that major mechanical failures are due to a result of very recent maintenance!! Further never rely on an MOT as evidence that a car is roadworthy.

 

Don't think it will come to anything anyway.........just a bit of Essex boy Bravado. Buyer not from Basildon/Southend by any chance?

 

Cheers for this info, Ive passed it on as we had no idea about it. Seems to go against the grain in a way so thanks for pointing it out!

 

I hope it doesn't come to anything but you never can tell. Im not sure what part of Essex he lives as my Son posted the log book to the DVLA without noting it down. His mates car was all show, you know the go faster stripes over the bonnet and roof etc. almost brand new too. I think it was a Clio not sure. My lad told him to take it easy on the test drive as he had only driven a standard 1.2 clio before, only passed his test 5 months ago so he was worried about him not handling the extre power. That seemed to go in one ear and out of the other though as he floored it as soon as he got 50 yards up the street.

 

Im waffling again sorry....

 

Thanks very much for that info though, its very much appreciated.

Cheers

Daz

[Conniff]

Any further word on this daz?

[daz395]

Any further word on this daz?

 

hiya Connif

 

Thanks for checking up, my Son had a txt before stating 'you have till 5pm tomorrow (Monday) to pay via paypal as a gift otherwise I will start proceedings and you will end up paying court costs too'

 

We have found the receipt for the engine rebuild now which is a VAT one and addressed to the garage, so they'll have it on record too as to when it was done and what engine it was.

 

So we'll wait and see what transpires, thanks again for your message I will keep you posted on what happens next.

[Conniff]

It is true that private sales are buyer beware and that the comebacks on a private sale are 'misrepresentation' or 'the car is in a dangerous condition'.

Neither of these things seem to have happened in your sons case so no real need to worry.

 

How many text or phone calls etc has your son had from the buyer and if only txt, has he kept them on his phone?

What is is actual words when he demands a partial refund, what reason has he given?

Has your son responded to any of the demands?

 

I am in agreement with the others that it is very unlikely any court action will happen and if it does I would feel confident he has no basis for it and would loose.

[daz395]

OOPS I was sat there refreshing the page and only just noticed its gone to a second page, sorry!

 

He's had quite a few texts and has kept them all, the lads attitude did get as if he was 'talking down' to my son as if he was cock sure of himself. Coming out with words and sentences that a 17 yr old probably wouldn't. Which makes us think like he's either used to doing this, or he's being coached along. He said in one txt message, you have acted outside the law in knowingly selling me a faulty vehicle and as such I am within my rights to claim compensation to rectify the engine. Now would a 17 yr old say that?

 

He added that he has has 'his' mechanic and a vehicle specialist check the engine over and they said its not been touched at all, and will cost £1000 to put right. Which is utter rubbish as when we bought the engine I had a mechanic check the lot over before fitting it as I wasnt willing to pay £400 to fit if it wasn't done, and he said yes its all like new.

 

My son hasn't replied to any of the later ones where he's throwing a paddy or just threatening court action.

[Conniff]

I think you are going the right way in not replying.

 

Hang on to those receipts that show the engine was rebuilt, that will be all you need.

 

If his mum really is a solicitor, then she should know all about the unlawfulness of harrasement.

[daz395]

Thanks Connif I did mention harassment but let him carry on just don't reply, well the time set has past by and no word as yet.

Will let you know if anything transpires.

Thanks again!

[BASFORDLAD2]

If you do get genuine court papers let us know. The advice you got on the phone from that legal help line was a bit wrong.

 

It wouldn't be done on the.phone. it would be transfered to YOUR local county court so he would have to travel.

 

But its all huff and no puff from a kid who's nit writing his own txts