HSBC and Sigma SPV 1 Split Claim

[AndyOrch]

Hi Knet

 

To deal with your salient points firstly.

 

The Claimant can leave the matter stayed once the 28 days have expired they can and you can request a further stay at anytime or at AQ.

If a stay is acceptable reading between the lines of their response they are prepared to offer a Consent subject to a repayment plan with no discount.

From what you state it looks like the documents disclosed are probably recreated in attempt to respond to your CPR request.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

I think you have caught them out.

 

You might want to remind them that they remain in breach of your valid CPR and CCA requests.

 

The AQ will only come if they inform the court they wish to proceed, and they will subsequently have to pay a fee before any hearing.

 

The AQ, if it gets that far, is your chance to demand the documents requested in your CPR via a court direction. If they do not respond to the court and it is stayed, you also have the option to apply for a strike out with costs.

[knet2020]

Hi Knet

 

To deal with your salient points firstly.

 

The Claimant can leave the matter stayed once the 28 days have expired they can and you can request a further stay at anytime or at AQ.

If a stay is acceptable reading between the lines of their response they are prepared to offer a Consent subject to a repayment plan with no discount.

From what you state it looks like the documents disclosed are probably recreated in attempt to respond to your CPR request.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Sorry if I am confused here but are you saying they can stay after the 28 days to submit my defence expired? What would that mean, the case simply stays on file?

 

Your 2nd point is even more confusing. I understand you won't offer direct advice but is this now beyond the point of well enter into a plan? They have abused the process and I am not seeing the reasoning. Sorry if I am not getting this?

[AndyOrch]

Sorry if I am confused here but are you saying they can stay after the 28 days to submit my defence expired? What would that mean, the case simply stays on file? Yes Until either they make application to lift the stay and probably request SJ or you lift the stay to request SO.

 

Your 2nd point is even more confusing. I understand you won't offer direct advice but is this now beyond the point of well enter into a plan? They have abused the process and I am not seeing the reasoning. Sorry if I am not getting this?

Not beyond fighting at all I stated " If a stay was acceptable " and you did want to enter into an agreement it would be by way of a Consent Order.

[AndyOrch]

All you need to remind the Claimant on split monies claims is this :-

 

An abuse of the Court Process.

Contrary to s35 of the county court Act 1984 s35 Division of causes of action

 

It shall not be lawful for any plaintiff to divide any cause of action for the purpose of bringing two or more actions in one or more of the county courts.

[knet2020]

@ andyorch Thanks for the clarification, it does seem it's now clear the process they are attempting to take with these.

[marshmallows]

Could you put it in very plain terms for me please, as I am a bit of a simpleton.

[knet2020]

Could you put it in very plain terms for me please, as I am a bit of a simpleton.

 

What?

[marshmallows]

What exactly they are trying to do with these letters they are sending, after people have put their defence in.

 

Are they suggesting they will not go through with the CCJ as long as you agree a plan with them?

 

If so, how can you agree a plan with them when they have not even sent proof or evidence of what it is they want you to repay?

[knet2020]

What exactly they are trying to do with these letters they are sending, after people have put their defence in.

 

Are they suggesting they will not go through with the CCJ as long as you agree a plan with them?

 

If so, how can you agree a plan with them when they have not even sent proof or evidence of what it is they want you to repay?

 

That it exactly, it seems they started to pursue these claims in a scatter gun approach.

 

From my reading of it they are prepared to take a chance as they can withdraw and stay the claim eg the claim is for 'part monies' yet the offer is for repayment of full amounts due. It's a blur of the moral arguments and legal process.

 

The simple fact they have ignored legal process is enough to make me carry on.

 

It seems more and more like a bet, some people will simply pay up, while they abuse the legal process (in an informal way)

 

It's important to note 2 things here: The court will always expect both parties to have acted reasonably (they dont want either of you in front of them if it can be avoided) and even if they won the claim (after any court directed mediation) you can pay within 28 days and no CCJ is registered.

 

I plan to continue, I will write a letter as stated above pointing out failure to respond to valid valid CPR and CCA request. I will ask on the AQ that the claimaint not be requesting a stay "for settlement" and seek to have it struck out.

 

The prob I have found so far is that the law is not easy and it seems that it's geared in the claimants favour.

[DonkeyB]

I reckon 70% of their claims go through by default, unopposed. If they issue 2,000 claims at a lower amount, and save, say, £50 in court fees on each claim (by claiming for a lower amount), that’s £100,000 saved. That’s why they do it.

[marshmallows]

If none of us are getting documents back from our CPR requests, would I be right to assume this could be because they simply do not have them? i assume if they did had sent them, it would be case closed from the defendents perspective?

[DonkeyB]

Of course Sigma dont have the documents. All they get from MBNA is an electronic file with basic account data.

 

They would have to go back to MBNA for the documents. That’s why they claim online, as they don’t have to attach documents as they would have to through the county court.

 

Going back to MBNA has two problems for them – firstly time and cost, and secondly the fact that MBNA’s agreements and systems are famously buggered, useless and fall short of storing enforceable documents.

 

In Scotland, the system is better, I believe: they have to attach their evidence to the claim, ie. no making it up as they go along in hope of a default judgment.

[knet2020]

It's an interesting note but the docs I recd today containing all copy statements were via a HSBC internal domain, dated 24/06 I have a strong feeling that Sigma SPV1 will be something that HSBC have setup themselves (Sigma Red), in any case it stinks.

 

The docs have been cobbled together as a way of trying to show compliance to a CPR but they are STILL in default of CCA request so the claim is Null & Void imho. The fact the letter refers to a full amount and the claim is for part monies due also points to a fishing expedition.

 

In Scotland, the system is better, I believe: they have to attach their evidence to the claim, ie. no making it up as they go along in hope of a default judgment.

[marshmallows]

Is your claim for an overdraft then Knet?

 

Only I never had a agreed overdraft with HSBC so I can not understand what mine is for.

[knet2020]

Yes, it was...

 

Be a weeny bit careful with using ‘split claim’ as a defence. It’s not really a defence, but a highlighting of a potential abuse of process. It’s only a split claim when they chase the balance or state they will chase the balance legally. They could argue they only want part of what is owed.

 

Even the arch inventor of split claims, Bryan Carter, has now admitted that split claims are ‘morally unethical’, but also claimed they had been advised by counsel that their methods were legal (they were legal until they went after the rest).

 

In other words, I think that was Carter admitting they split the claim to reduce claim costs and hopefully get a judgment, then rely on debtors’ ignorance and misleading practices to get the rest. Which is exactly what I believe Sigma is doing.

[citizenB]

In Scotland, the system is better, I believe: they have to attach their evidence to the claim, ie. no making it up as they go along in hope of a default judgment. x

 

This is the same in England - but only if the claim is issued through a court proper. There is an exemption for claims issued via MCOL. However, they are supposed to provide the information as soon as possible afterwards. Of course they never do and it is an uphill struggle trying to obtain this information - especially where a debt has been assigned or sold on.

 

IMHO, anyone who finds themselves struggling to pay debts and realises they might end up defaulting - should invest £10.00 and send a Subject Access Request. That way they can be pretty much well prepared should litigation ever happen.

[DonkeyB]

This is the same in England - but only if the claim is issued through a court proper. There is an exemption for claims issued via MCOL. However, they are supposed to provide the information as soon as possible afterwards. Of course they never do and it is an uphill struggle trying to obtain this information - especially where a debt has been assigned or sold on.

 

I said that in my full post CB! Honest, teach! Dog ate my homework!

[citizenB]

I said that in my full post CB! Honest, teach! Dog ate my homework!

 

Oops my apologies DB.. I missed that

[knet2020]

@DonkeyB

To be able to send PMs your post count must be 30 or greater

 

What are you needing?

[DonkeyB]

Damn.

 

Can you post up the Sigma letterhead, without your personal details?

[citizenB]

To post up documents - please follow instructions below

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

[knet2020]

UPDATE: The case was stayed on 12/07/2012 (not by me) and the claimant has not contacted the court.

 

So would the general advice now be to make an application to strike or to simply leave it where it is?

[citizenB]

The court will have stayed the claim if the other side hadnt indicated if they wanted to move forward. I doubt very much indeed that you would get a strike out at this stage. I have heard of some claims being stayed for up to 2 or 3 years.. Although at that time, I imagine they would need to give the court a damn good reason why they had waited for so long.

 

I would at this stage, leave it and telephone the court at least once a month to confirm the status of the claim.

[knet2020]

Thanks for the info, suprised I didn't get any confirmation or indication.