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    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Welcome Finance - claim form received


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Oh right I didn't know that, have been sweating over the defence all over Xmas when everyone majorly busy.

So I just wait then? Do I not take anything to the hearing then, just wait for the judge to say what's happening afterward?

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Get all your paperwork together and an outline of a proposed defence....refer to what I said about the dates on the DN/TN but make sure that they have followed procedure in adding parties first.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 weeks later...
are there any updates on what happened with this?

Hi not yet, I'm waiting for the date on the 11th to have our hearing which is when apparently we need to take our defence which will include the fact that welcome write and said they had added myself, which the court have not

Confirmed... Now meaning welcome have said its adjourned and if we took their word wouldn't turn up, perhaps meaning it would go their way!!!

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Hope it all goes well for you Gilly, i'm just starting my fight with Welcome, they have ignored my SAR also and did the whole asking for proof of identity thing, i'm now trying to read up on how i submit a court claim I have the N1 form but just need to be 100% i'm completing it correctly x

 

Have a look at this thread...it may well help you

 

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hi, i have read the whole of this thread.

 

Our loan was just a securred loan but we issued a SAR request in October 2011, I'm completing the N1 form tomorrow but a little stuck where you write in costs as it is a non money claim - i would have thought you put 0.00 in but want to be 100%. I'm also involving the ICO as they did the whole we acknowledge your sar request but want proof of ID and we have been received correspondents from them during this period.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all haven't updated for a whole as nothing happening, welcome have managed to get the case adjourned till the first week in march when we will both be defendants, ill post my defence up this week but fear I cannot quote case laws. I will post my arguments and hope someone can help me word it into a defence

:) thanks all

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If served Again in both our names do I need to acknowledge again? It's a return of goods hearing and I'm really confused about what it will entail, do we both need to be present? Will there be a rep from welcome?

Will the judge read our defence?

I have no idea what a return of goods hearing is

Gilly

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Hi gilly

 

Take a read here before your hearing particularly from PD 4 onwards

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_part07b

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi thanks

I've had a good read and I'm more confused than ever

Should fill in the attached forms and take with me asking for specified payments or

Just take a defence stating the discrepancies between dates of the TN and DN?

Or both so if judge decides the date thing, refusal of SAR, previous complaints about the car fit for purpose wtc aren't enough then may still let us keep and order payments?

I just don't want to lose my car

Anyone any ideas, everything we've done prev I've been pretty clear about but it's the unknown here. Will the judge set a date or make a decision there and then. Is it worth getting my defence to the court beforehand so the judge may read it?

Thanks guys

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Hi just wanted some advice before we go to court next week shall I admit we owe and ask for time to pay, I don't want our arguments re dn and TN to fail and get a judgement against us, would it be wise to admit we owe which we do then if the judge decides welcome have acted accordingly we will get time to pay the bal?

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You may still get a judgment if you do or dont mention your arguments.Your hearing is your opportunity to state your case and offer proposals to resolve the matter.If a judgment is awarded and forthwith you can still make application to vary the terms of payment.

 

If you dont present any argument then it is presumed the Claimant is correct.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok thanks, I'm obviously very worried about the whole thing and think I'm confusing myself keep going over and over it.

I've got my argument, there complete lack of organisation letters that say thanks for ur SAR letters that say we've never had a SAR request... Dn and termination notices all over the place. Infact there's 3 in question. One I have from June 2011, one they refer to but I haven't got from nov 12, and another one from July 2012! I'm hoping the judge will see that despite attempts to resolve the matter and agree a repayment plan we have done nothing but be messed about by welcome and dlcs offering us 50% reductions etc

Thanks Andy

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Frustrating I accept but when you are at your hearing try to keep calm and present your contentions calmly,succinctly and If you feel you are been rail roaded then ask for explanation or time to consider.If you act with courtesy and professionalism Im sure the Claimant will show how unreasonable they have acted.

 

Best of luck Gilly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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hi

below is an outline of our proposed defence I thought about including a time line hopefully will let whoever looks the amount of messing about there has been

 

Reference to the Return of goods hearing from Welcome Finance

In the particular of the claim Welcome state that on the1/11/2011 a Default notice was served, we have not received Default notice.

In the particulars of claim welcome state that TerminationNotice was served on the 22/11/11, againwe did not receive this please see appendix I for Termination notice served onthe 20/07/2011.

Defendant argues that Welcome served the termination noticebefore default notice.

20/07/2011

Termination notice received for balance of £5427.32

Spoke to Welcome who advised was not a termination noticeand we had to agree to contractual amount plus a figure towards the arrears

31/7/2011

Further phone calls from Welcome saying we needed to set up contractualpayment plus something towards the arrears or would come and take the car

Advised at this point to put everything in writing and notto speak to them on the telephone

30/08/2011

Bombarded with telephone calls so sent a telephone harassmentletter

08/12/11

Sent letter of complaint to Welcome re initial complaintabout the car.

04/2012

SAR request sent to Welcome finance

Letter received stating that under section 80 they needed toknow the whereabouts of the car.

Section 80 relates to commercial HP agreements not personal

04/05/2012

Welcome acknowledge receipt of request for SAR and £10processing fee state they need Several documents as cannot verify our identity(see appendix ii)

June 2012

Welcome continue to ring up to 20 times per day despitehaving has a harassment letter and still no response from SAR request

Letter sent 19/6/12 complaining once again about the amountof phone calls and all correspondence in writing and complaining about lack ofresponse to SAR

Complaint letter sent again

2 letters received from Atlas collections (see appendix iii)

12/07/12

We will go to court for the car based on default notice from1/11/11

14/707/12

We would like to offer you a 50% reduction on the balance

Ignored as still no response to SAR request

23/7/2012

Letter from Welcome collections – Atlas collections (seeappendix iv)- stating have never received a SAR

25/7/12

Complaint sent again to Welcome finance stating letters fromthemselves acknowledging SAR sent recorded delivery (appendix v)

Heard nothing until court papers received inDecember 2012.

If anyone can help me word this properly I would be so grateful or releveant case laws to ref in regards to the dates etc

Do I need a full defence or os this outline enough??

Thanks all

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Hi gilly as long as you understand it and it contains all the relevant points of your objections then that's fine.It does not have to be worded legally or flash as long as you understand what you are countering with your attached exhibits.

 

Dont forget to include your request of a payment plan and their response.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Right just a quick update

 

defence form in at the court in case the judge has time to read before thE hearing on Friday

 

Have recd from welcome today a hire purchase statement ( never had one of theses before) showing all credits a debits since account was opened.

 

There are over a £1000 of charges for let's and phone calls and funnily enough some of the letters I have like a termination notice before the default notice is not detailed on there.

shows default and termination from the dates that welcome have used in the particulars of claim

 

there a a few charges I would hope someone can shed some light on

 

Each month there is a discrepancy in the order of debits and it goes like this

31/10/09 DEFAULT SUM FEE INTEREST £1.12

7/10/09 HPDI FEE £7.42

7/10/09 CAPITILISATION £7.42

This happens every month with the amount varyingb for HPDI from £34 to £2.15

 

I don't know what the HODI FEE is or the CAPITILISATION but I guess they add up to a considerable amount

 

Can anybody shed any light in this?

 

I thought it might be default interest but that is shown separately

 

It seems a bit strange that welcome have sent it today when in court in two days time

 

Thanks Gilly

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the trouble with welcome is they make up names

there is another thread here whereby HPDI fees are being reclaim

along with default sum int fees

 

cap is interrest so no go.

 

you've got the CISHEET to put them all in?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks squaddie

 

dont foget onslows letter will you please?

 

 

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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CISHEET?

Thought I could start the excel sheet to reclaim after looking on other threads. Is it worth mentioning in court on fri?

I've looked at letter/ phone call charges

HPDI fees and returned payment charges

What I don't get is each entry for capitalisation is the same as the entry above it and according to the balance it only increases on the capitalisation entry not the one above it so is it interest or the fee for a late payment? So confusing

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