eBay buyer

[afcwben]

I sold a wheelchair on eBay and described it as second hand but immaculate. I eventually sold it to a woman who asked me question after question and all were replied factually and accurately.After she recieved it she claimed the battery doesnt work, I stated it is brand new and I have the warranty if she wants. she then stated it was worn out and five years old, I messaged her saying yes it is five years old but had never been used not even taken out of the house. She then complained the footrests were incorrect and the control panel was on the wrond side. I said to her that if she asked me those questions I would have replied and she could have decided to not buy.She however raised a dispute with eBay who have found in her favour without seeking any evidence from me, I am aware she has bought an old chair and I am positive she is trying to fob off on to me. However, I stand by the item.I do not want to refund the money and she has bought it and not asked the right questions, eBay state I have to refund her. Anyone know what my rights are on this one?

[andydd]

Deja Vu !

 

Your post (no 666..eek !) is very similar to umpteen others. A p[erson buys a second hand item on ebay, complains and ebay decide in their favour (as they nearly always do), you should of been given a chance to respond but it may not of helped.

 

As for your rights, they are limited, Ebay's T&C's are quite clear that their decision is final although it is questionable as to how compatible with UK law they are.

 

Its not really upto whether or not she asked the right questions, its whether it is 'significantly not as described' but of course ebay staff havnt seen it and prob no very little about wheelchairs so its hardly an in depth decision.

 

BUT the decision has been made, have they taken money from your Paypal account ? Did it have funds in it or is it in negative balance ?

 

You could in theory just ignore them, they may then chase you with a DCA but its well known they dont start legal action but youll have a wrecked ebay/payapla account and wont be able to use them.

 

It may well cost the buyer though as they'd have to return it to you.

 

Andy

[afcwben]

the paypal account is in negative balance. I am already assuming that my paypal and ebay account have been wrecked so will have to start another one. She will have to pay to send it to me. As far as I am concerned they can all whistle for the money.

[assisted blonde]

afcwben I agree with you totally

[andydd]

Unfortunatly it is a situation that more and more totally innocent sellers find themselves in (me included), it really helps no-one, ok the buyer may get his/her money back and I assume that ebau believe that they will be very happy and continue to buy from ebay BUT the seller has his account wrecked and is now less likely to buy or sell from ebay again, ok, they may set up another account (although strictly speaking this isnt allowed), the real loser is ebay as they will have paid the buyer and are unlikley to recover the money from the seller, I can see why ebay does this, to install confidence in buers but it seems they bend over backwards to decide cases in buyers favour far too often.

 

Andy

[Ferfex Ache]

Have you personally contacted ebay and spoken to someone about this? Also, have you had a look at the buyers feedback....especially the feedback left for others or as a buyer'? Some people can never be pleased at any level but this can reflect in their feedback. This can work in your favour.

 

Ebay's policies being pro buyer and anti seller are soooo unfair. They will have your bank account details that they took when you verified your account and can take monies from your account to recoup their/or the buyers expenses.

 

Go and check their feedback and whether or not you find anything suspicious of them, contact ebay too and tell them your side of the story.

 

Good luck!!! xx

[andydd]

Although it is possible to remove your account details from ebay/paypal.

[dorishaslop]

Although it is possible to remove your account details from ebay/paypal.

 

If you remove your bank account details from both ebay and paypal, is it definate that they can't withdraw funds once both accounts have been deleted or can they still use records they have stored.

[andydd]

Removing your account is removing permission so they certainly shouldnt go withdrawing money !

[afcwben]

Although it is possible to remove your account details from ebay/paypal.

 

 

Unfortunately you cannot amend your account details when the balance is negative. The buyer paid the money, I withdrew it. The buyer then disputed and Payypal immediately marked my account as negative. The only solution is to cancel the direct debti and cancel any cards they have stored. From what I gather eBay/paypal will refund the money and then in turn try to collect it from me.

But this does raise an interesting point as follows.

Buyer A knows Buyer B

Buyer B sells a fictitious item to buyer A

Buyer A pays £XX via Paypal to buyer B

Buyer B withdraws money and awaits it to clear into bank account.

Buyer A raises dispute with eBayeBay finds in buyer A favour and refunds the money

ebay tries to get money back from buyer Bbiuyer A & B have doubled their money

[dorishaslop]

Yes thanks, I see what you are getting at.... I have read hundreds of posts throughout the night (insomnia struck) and have decided to follow the guidelines set out by ebay and paypal, I have contacted the buyer and asked that he return the item at his own expense. I have also intimated that I have the original documents and the IMEI number (which i have). I have also consulted a solicitor. (personal friend) regarding the matter and the alleged damage. I am wondering if the phone comes back damaged and the box does not, I can't see how the phone got chipped as it was boxed in it's original box and each item was wrapped in tissue and bubble wrap. Ebay have said they will look into the case carefully if he should open a dispute.

Thanks very much for all your help though caggers, It's been much appreciated, and I know I will be calling on you again, in fact I do have another problem but on a different matter. x

[afcwben]

Yes thanks, I see what you are getting at.... I have read hundreds of posts throughout the night (insomnia struck) and have decided to follow the guidelines set out by ebay and paypal, I have contacted the buyer and asked that he return the item at his own expense. I have also intimated that I have the original documents and the IMEI number (which i have). I have also consulted a solicitor. (personal friend) regarding the matter and the alleged damage. I am wondering if the phone comes back damaged and the box does not, I can't see how the phone got chipped as it was boxed in it's original box and each item was wrapped in tissue and bubble wrap. Ebay have said they will look into the case carefully if he should open a dispute.

Thanks very much for all your help though caggers, It's been much appreciated, and I know I will be calling on you again, in fact I do have another problem but on a different matter. x

 

 

 

Well I followed the guidelines, unfortunately eBay do not listen to both sides, the person buying from me raised one problem after another all which I proved were not true, eventually I realised she was trying to fob off an old item to me Despite all my answers eBay ignores everything and decided in the buyers favour.(That is not how you handle a dispute in my books

 

So what we have here is a method where people can replace all broken and old things for new and there is nothing genuine sellers can do about itI will not use eBay again and will find a better vehicle to sell things through

[andydd]

Well..whilst dubious, to be fair to ebay I have had them decide for me (the sellers favour) on rare occasions and if you are lucky and you both have a strong case, sometimes ebay themselves refund the buyer and you both keep your money

 

Andy

[afcwben]

Well..whilst dubious, to be fair to ebay I have had them decide for me (the sellers favour) on rare occasions and if you are lucky and you both have a strong case, sometimes ebay themselves refund the buyer and you both keep your money

 

Andy

 

As you said rare occassions.

I have been unable to make eBay listen to my side of the argument they are not interested

I must admit whilst I dont doubt you, why on earth would eBay make a refund and let the seller keep the money, that does not make any sense at all.

Unless someone else can explain that to me.

[dorishaslop]

I responded to the buyer early this morning after leaving it all weekend, I told him he had to abide by ebay rules, etc. etc. I told him I had all the original documents and the IMEI number, and so far he hasn't raised a case or responded back to me. lets hope he was just trying to pull a fast one and realised I am no mug, Thanks to you caggers I am much wiser these days.

 

ps, why don't the smilies work ???

[andydd]

As you said rare occassions.

I have been unable to make eBay listen to my side of the argument they are not interested

I must admit whilst I dont doubt you, why on earth would eBay make a refund and let the seller keep the money, that does not make any sense at all.

Unless someone else can explain that to me.

 

Yes..it is rare but I think now twice Ebay have refunded the buyer but not charged either the seller or buyer, it was both times a lowish amount about £30 I recall. One occasion was where I sold some new unuised computer backup tapes, I sold them as new sealed, the buyer told ebay they were new, unused but unsealed, not a huge difference but ebay did the refunding.

 

I think they do this for good customers whove been long term users with good feedback in the belief that both sides will be happy and continue to use ebay, annoying people and making negative paypal balances means they are unlikeley to recover the money and theyve lost a user..no-one wins.

 

 

Aha..Found the original case:-

 

Customer Support comments:

 

We'll be issuing the buyer with a refund in this case. You don't need to do anything else. This case won't be included when we evaluate seller performance. Note: It may take up to 24 hours to update your Seller Dashboard.

 

 

Final decision:

 

You were not found at fault.

 

Andy

Edited April 16, 2012 by andydd

[afcwben]

Yes..it is rare but I think now twice Ebay have refunded the buyer but not charged either the seller or buyer, it was both times a lowish amount about £30 I recall. One occasion was where I sold some new unuised computer backup tapes, I sold them as new sealed, the buyer told ebay they were new, unused but unsealed, not a huge difference but ebay did the refunding.

 

I think they do this for good customers whove been long term users with good feedback in the belief that both sides will be happy and continue to use ebay, annoying people and making negative paypal balances means they are unlikeley to recover the money and theyve lost a user..no-one wins.

 

Andy

 

I have been both a buyer and seller on ebay for many years and have 100% feedback but they are not interested in my side. The buyer reckoned what I sold her was old and worn out and that it definitely wasn't.

[andydd]

To be honest, most cases are prob decided by a spotty 18 yr old with no real investigation into the facts

[dorishaslop]

still no response from the buyer, unless he's at work maybe... if and when he get's in touch or raises a claim I will keep you all posted with the details. x

[Fruitcake2012]

I had someone claim that they had not received an item and that they had tried to contact me, which they did, once, and I replied to them saying that I was sorry but the postage had been delayed and it was posted that day. No other communication was received until a case was raised with ebay. The buyer received a refund through paypal. I wasn't happy but figured that was the end of it.

 

Not at all. Now, when I try to post something new, I am asked to update my reimbursement method. I try to add my NatWest Visa Debit card and it says that the bank has refused it, which it hasn't (checked with the bank). Emailed ebay. They said it needed to be a credit card and if I didn't have one I could get one. I informed them that I do not have one, have no intention of getting one, with my income I would not be eligible for one and they are too expensive. Since I have a verified paypal account do they have the right to demand a credit card?

[dorishaslop]

that sounds like a nightmare... I'm sure one of the regulars will help you on that one....

 

My buyer e-mailed me this morning saying he had fixed the glitches with some downloads and was now happy with the phone.... let's hope that'll be all from him. I'm happy now anyway. xx

[mattyprice4004]

Since I have a verified paypal account do they have the right to demand a credit card?

 

They have the right to demand whatever they want, they could restrict eBay to people who only owned pink cars if they wanted.

 

You're paying to use a service, they're under no obligation to give you that service. If you don't like the terms, you'll have to use another site.

 

Also for the OP - if you just open up another eBay account they'll link the two together and shut your new account down too. You need to pay the money back.

[andydd]

Perhaps you could clarify your comment "you need to pay the money back" ? Whilst the paypal balance maybe negative, it is well known that paypal dont bother to puruse this through the courts and many would argue that their T&C's are legally flawed.

 

And whilst against the T&C's, many do open second accounts and use them succesfully.

 

Andy

[afcwben]

It is worth questioning as well if ebays t&c's trump English law, I don't think they do

[andydd]

Well...no..law always takes presecedent, for example am contract could say if I dont pay up on time thenm someone will come round and thump me, wouldnt be allowed due to the laws regarding assualt and would prob fall foul of unfair terms in contracts, as maybe many of ebays/paypals would anyway, especially as i notice a recent newspaper article pointing out their their T&C's are 32,000 words long, longer than many Shakespear plays !

 

Andy