Welfare Reform Bill, a review. I agree with.

[Life-Goes-On]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2110900/Suicide-training-Job-Centres-Cancer-patients-scrubbing-floors-Welcome-Cameron-s-Brave-New-World.html

It beggars belief.

[Zarbafi]

It is shocking to see the daily mail stick it to the tories like this but I really hope it means that something will be done about this. I for one have spread the word myself about the article and related petitions demanding for this to be looked at again.

 

I am really horrified about what is happening in this country, to the sick and the poor and to myself. I have started to have panic attacks in my sleep from the stress I am under and I believe much of it is because of the negative attiudes in the press and in society to those who are poor, ill and out of work. You start to internalise those beliefs about yourself and it makes you suffer mentally and emotionally, it's abuse.

[jadeybags]

Good article, have posted it on my facebook.

[Conniff]

This isn't a good article and it's one ill informed persons take on things with a lot of self embellishment, in other words, total bollox. You can bet your life none of what she has said is how it really is. "More than six months to live you will be forced to work", show me where in the legislation it says that ms poulton, oh you can't, no of course not because it doesn't.

 

This is gutter press at it's raw worse.

 

Sonia Poulton is an absolute nobody, someone suited more to writing comic fantasies. What crap can I put in that is completely untrue but if I put a question mark after then I will get away with it.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Conniff

[Nystagmite]

"More than six months to live you will be forced to work", show me where in the legislation it says that, oh you can't, no of course not because it doesn't.

 

It's misleading. It is possible to (as people know) to get into the support group and have a normal life expectancy. I know someone who does and I'm sure there are people on here who do.

[sadone]

Personally I can see very little wrong in that article. It's about time more people were brought up to speed with whats going on when it comes to this governments 'so called' welfare reform program.

[Conniff]

Agree people should be told about things, but the truth, not some made up rubbish to frighten people, the article is no better than an harassing phone calls from debt companies.

[sadone]

But imo a lot of it isn't 'made up'. It true for example that disabled people (unlike the workfare scheme that young are made to attend) haven't got a set period of time that they have to do free work free work for. If you're young It's time limited I believe, but If you're on the WRA group in ESA (which lets face It most people will be as very few get in the support group going by the governments own figures) there is the potential there for them to work for for free for as long as you claim benefit. Yes, It's under the discretion of each individual workfare contractor, but there is nothing in the rules in the new welfare bill that sets a limit. Thats what a lot of disability rights campaigners such as Sue Marsh are crying out about.

 

 

http://socialwelfareadvocacy.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/government-to-continue-sanctions-for-esa-workfare-scheme/

 

 

Also imo when such a right wing paper such as the Mail starts calling foul then you know things have got mighty serious.

Edited March 8, 2012 by sadone

[Lady Lou]

"Agree people should be told about things, but the truth, not some made up rubbish to frighten people, the article is no better than an harassing phone calls from debt companies".

 

As a physically disabled person also suffering from debt harassment, the Welfare Reforms scare me more than any DCA could.

 

Debt is not a crime and can be handled by a Truecall unit and the help of other Caggers.

 

Disibility is being treated like a crime, punishable by the slow death of sanity.

[sadone]

Well said. And the more the general public get to realise that the better imo.

[Life-Goes-On]

I must have missed the "made up bit"

 

As sadone says it's not time-limited like JSA, as the example can be true as the Bill allows for it to be true.

[Conniff]

And you have a right to be scared and that is the responsibility of the government department concerned to send you the full information on how/if it will affect you. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I am against the way this MS has written it with headlines like - "Cancer patients scrubbing floors" these is just publicity grabbing rubbish and nothing whatsoever to do with the story or the reforms bill.

[Life-Goes-On]

I remember when Workfare was talked about and some said all will happened is Supermarkets would end up with free labour to stack shelfs,

some said that would never happen as it's about training.

[sadone]

And you have a right to be scared and that is the responsibility of the government department concerned to send you the full information on how/if it will affect you. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I am against the way this MS has written it with headlines like - "Cancer patients scrubbing floors" these is just publicity grabbing rubbish and nothing whatsoever to do with the story or the reforms bill.

 

Thing is that type of thing has been happening on both sides now. Christ I mean look at how the Sun Newspaper is behaving at the moment with the whole 'Most disabled claiments are faking it!!!' crap that they're peddling right now.

 

We need articles like the above to help draw attention to whats going on, and after the new welfare reforms are brought in whats going to happen as I suspect not a lot of people out there relasie how badly they're going to be effected by whats to come.

 

We need a voice and rightly or wrongly articles such as the above do imo help.

[Life-Goes-On]

It it headline grabbing, but it needs to be.

 

People can claim it will never happen, but if that law allows it to happen, then no one can be sure.

[Conniff]

'Most disabled claiments are faking it!!!' crap

 

They should be made to back up a statement like that. Perhaps a freedom of information request is in order.

[sadone]

This is the Sun we're talking about here. Lies are It's bread and butter. Just ask the people of Liverpool..

 

And of course apparently Cameron's supporting them in this little crusade, Funny that. I'm afraid from where I'm standing this whole thing appears to be a case of 'he who shouts the loudest gets believed' routine, and at the moment the general public are only slowly starting to come around and not believe every lie written about welfare in the media.

 

Sadly the realist in me thinks It maybe a case of 'too little, too late'.

[feelingsad]

There is nothing made up in that article, no lies at all. Ok it describes a worst case scenario, cancer patients who have more than 6 months to live (and that's most as it is rare for a Doctor to be confident enough to state someone has less than six months, they just won't quite possibly as that would make the patient eligible for continuing health care where the NHS provides the funding for their care, they don't want that so they don't sign to say someone has less than 6 months and then the social services get the bill or the patient funds their own care) have to be assessed by ATOS along with all other ESA claimants and if they can do x, y and z then they won't be allowed ESA and will be expected to claim JSA and then you just can't turn down jobs available to you so yes they could be scrubbing floors or cleaning loos in their final days. No lies there. I find it shocking that a site team member says there are lies there, where are the lies? What is a lie? I've studied the welfare reform bill quite extensively and the scenarios quoted are more than possible in the new system.

[Life-Goes-On]

More reading

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/16/disabled-unpaid-work-benefit-cuts?newsfeed=true

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/feb/17/disabled-unpaid-work-benefit-cuts-documents?INTCMP=SRCH

 

 

Over the phone with a DWP spokesperson our conversation went something like this:

"So someone could be doing work experience for for ten years?"

"Don't be ridiculous, it would never last that long."

"So then why don't you put a ten year limit on it?"

[Pause]..."We don't have any plans to put a limit on it."

[Nystagmite]

They should be made to back up a statement like that. Perhaps a freedom of information request is in order.

 

Their "evidence" (at least the Mail's was) is that many people are being found fit for work. Or they confuse WRAG with being found fit for work.

[Lady Lou]

Yes, the scenarios quoted are more than possible, therein lies the fear.

 

I have been assaulted by a neighbour, reported by my ex and now the Government are coming to stomp on what's left.

 

Faced with the options, some will give up and not claim at all but I can see others getting pushed over the brink.

[Conniff]

See it's all in the wording

so yes they could be scrubbing floors or cleaning loos in their final days.

my bold.

 

What that article say is that if you are disabled etc you are thrown into the workhouse, that is just not true, but she was clever enough to put a question mark after her stupid statement so eliminating any question that it is true or she has checked it out.

 

It's like articles written with 'children' or 'environment' in them, that basically eliminates any argument.

[sadone]

There is nothing made up in that article, no lies at all. Ok it describes a worst case scenario, cancer patients who have more than 6 months to live (and that's most as it is rare for a Doctor to be confident enough to state someone has less than six months, they just won't quite possibly as that would make the patient eligible for continuing health care where the NHS provides the funding for their care, they don't want that so they don't sign to say someone has less than 6 months and then the social services get the bill or the patient funds their own care) have to be assessed by ATOS along with all other ESA claimants and if they can do x, y and z then they won't be allowed ESA and will be expected to claim JSA and then you just can't turn down jobs available to you so yes they could be scrubbing floors or cleaning loos in their final days. No lies there. I find it shocking that a site team member says there are lies there, where are the lies? What is a lie? I've studied the welfare reform bill quite extensively and the scenarios quoted are more than possible in the new system.

 

Well said. If some folks are naive enough to think that Cameron won't exploit any loophole to try and make the lives of disabled people even harder (see the recent closing of Remploy for that) then I have this bridge that I'd like to sell them....

Edited March 8, 2012 by sadone

[frank_begbie]

Thing is that type of thing has been happening on both sides now. Christ I mean look at how the Sun Newspaper is behaving at the moment with the whole 'Most disabled claiments are faking it!!!' crap that they're peddling right now.

 

We need articles like the above to help draw attention to whats going on, and after the new welfare reforms are brought in whats going to happen as I suspect not a lot of people out there relasie how badly they're going to be effected by whats to come.

 

We need a voice and rightly or wrongly articles such as the above do imo help.

 

Exactly.

 

There's far too much right wing media that always takes the governments side, we need to see the other side of the coin.

[jadeybags]

It'll haunt me for a while, that lady on a tv show the other day saying that her health insurance company refuse to pay out as even though she is now terminally ill, the fact she hasn't been told she only has a year to live she won't get her insurance payout. I just kept thinking about another lady I read about the other day that was told she has 18 months to live, & yet didn't last 3 weeks.

This article may be slightly exagerated, but it's what's happening.

And yet morbidly obese people are getting their homes adapted for free, 10k lifts put in their homes for free, free home visits from dentist, & increasing amount of expensive heavy duty ambulances & equipment to move them built, & this is ok. Don't tell me I was the only person to watch Big body squad last night! As a country we're going in the wrong direction!