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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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EON debt- what should i do?


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Hi,

I changed my gas & electricity supplier from EON to NPower a couple of months ago. I have pre-payment meters for both and had no debt on my meters.

 

After the switch i was sent a final bill by EON totalling £41.60. It says on the bill that this is based on an estimated meter reading. At no point during the switch did EON ask me for meter readings and I have had no explanation of why I owe this money.

 

It rubs salt into the wounds when the reason I left EON in the first place was because their high prices meant that, even with a 2 year old in the house, we couldn't afford to have the heating on for more than a couple of hours a day as it was!

 

I admit i buried my head in the sand about this final bill and ignored it instead of ringing EON. They have now passed the debt to UDS who have now sent an 'intention of court action' notice which says a rep (bailiff?) could call to my address to collect the money.

 

I've read about recalibration charges - when tariff prices change but the meters are not updated to reflect them? - and think this may be why they claim i owe them money. But at no point did EON ever contact me to say my meter needed updating or try to arrange this.

 

So where do I stand on this? Can they take me to court for a bill that is only an estimated one? Is it too late for me now to contact EON themselves seeing as it is in the hands of UDS? Can a bailiff remove items from my property for debt like this?

 

I know, compared to some on here, my debt is a pitiful amount but for me it is the principle that's the issue here more than the actual amount. This is due in part to the fact that quite a few years ago i changed supplier from Yorkshire Electricity to Scottish Power. That time i was sent a final bill of (I think from memory) £190 - despite again having no debt to them and being on prepayment meters. In the end (after numerous phone calls back & forth and getting no explanation of why i owed this) I ended up borrowing this money from a family member to pay them off & rid myself of this "debt" - money i could ill afford to borrow.

 

Any advice as to what I should do now - especially now it has gone as far as threat of court action - would be greatly appreciated.

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When you switch suppliers with a credit meter the company you are moving to sends the one you are moving from the changeover meter reading. They should not be using estimates.

 

How this works for pre-pay I don't know. It might be possible for the payments & meter readings to be out of line.

 

I would write or email to EON & ask why they have sent a bill for a pre-pay account, why there is an estimated reading and why they are pursuing this. Also contact the company you are moving to & ask what the process should be

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Hi JS33

 

Don't worry about this account being passed to bailiffs, it hasn't reached that point.

 

As 2Grumpy says, it's the responsibility of the new supplier to send the old supplier the meter readings they'll use to open their account. The old supplier will then use the same readings to close their account. This ensures you're only charged once for the same energy. This is the same for both prepayment and credit meters.

 

If, after a certain time, we haven't received readings from the new supplier then the account will automatically close to estimated readings. However, we'll re-bill the account accurately as soon as we receive the correct readings.

 

We won't ask you for the readings because, by this time, you're not our customer.

 

The outstanding amount may just be down to incorrectly estimated readings. There used to be an issue with the old token prepayment meters. These needed re-calibrating by an engineer each time prices changed. However, these have nearly all been replaced with key meters.

 

We're able to re-set key meters by sending an electronic message to the meter each time there's a price change. This allows us to up date them immediately. There's the odd token meter still around, though, so I'm not discounting this totally but it is unlikely. Do you top up using a key or buy tokens?

 

Was there a delay when you changed suppliers? If there was, did you use the new supplier's payment device to top up the meters before the account actually switched to them? If you did, these payments may have gone to them for energy used whilst you were still with us. This would also lead to a debit balance showing on the account.

 

Don't worry if this did happen. There's an industry wide process in place to make sure this type of misdirected payment is returned to the correct account.

 

Talk to one of our prepayment teams about this (contact details are on your bills). Give them the readings your new supplier has used to start your account with them. They'll re-bill your account to these. If there's still a balance showing, they'll be happy to explain where it comes from.

 

Sorry for all the questions JS33 but hope this is of some use. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help.

 

Malc

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Thanks very much 2Grumpy and Malc,

 

I'm not long home from a 12 hr shift so have only seen your replies tonight. I'll ring NPower & EON tomorrow though & try to get to the bottom of it.

 

There probably was a delay with my account as I submitted both my gas & elec readings to NPower via their website facility - then received a letter maybe 2 weeks later (?) saying they hadn't received my gas reading so i had to ring them up & provide this one again over the phone.

 

By that time I think I already had used my new NPOwer key & card to top up - so hopefully you're right Malc and this is what has happened. But that was all weeks ago now and EON haven't sent me any revised bills - the amount still says I owe them £41.60 on the most recent letters I've received.

 

I have a key for my elec meter but my gas one is still topped up with a card. Not sure what type but my meter looks exactly like this one:

(Sorry couldn't submit link as I don't have enough posts yet!)

Don't worry about asking me questions Malc, I really do appreciate your help. I'll update as soon as i've spoken to both companies.

Thanks again to both of you :)

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we also have eon rep here

he should pickup on this thread tomorrow

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi JS33

 

Gas prepayment meters are usually topped up using a card. These generally work in a similar way to electric key meters, in that, electronic messages pass between the meter and supplier. This allows us to update meters with the correct settings.

 

Have you spoken to us yet? Would be interested in the outcome.

 

Malc

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Hi Malc/everyone,

 

Sorry only just updating this...

 

I spoke to NPower who confirmed the date they were charging me from. These tallied with the dates E-ON had billed me up to...but didn't really explain why i still owed anyone!

 

Then i spoke to a nice lady Carol at E-ON & she said their estimate appeared to be too high. She put me on hold a couple of minutes then came back on the line to tell me I don't owe anything as their estimate was too high.

 

Still don't really understand the how & why ....eg. how & why I can threatened with court action 'unless payment is made in full within 7 days' for money i don't even owe!....and I still feel that something dodgy has occurred!...but i don't owe E-On any money so that's good enough for me. :)

 

Just to add though - my 'debt' was only a small amount & had I been liable for it wouldn't have had too much trouble finding this kind of money. Can't help but wonder though how an old age pensioner or someone equally vulnerable would cope with receiving such threatening letters!

Edited by JS33
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi JS33

 

Sorry for the late reply. Have been out of the office for a couple of weeks.

 

Glad this is sorted. As I suspected, we'd closed to estimates and this resulted in a debt because they were too high. Once re-billed accurately, the false debt disappeared.

 

I do understand how disconcerting some of our debt letters can be. I've fed back about the tone of these letters before and will happily do so again.

 

We do have a responsibility to make customers aware at the earliest opportunity of the possibilities if debts are ignored. Consequently, the letters can sound harsh.

 

Anyway, happy you're sorted and many thanks for letting me know.

 

Malc

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