Help required! Disputed council tax debt been passed to Bailiffs...

[larold]

Hi all,

 

Possibly a bit of a strange one, I recently collected some post from a property I had recently vacated to find a removal notice dated 5th Dec. From a couple of phone calls to the bailiffs and Hounslow council I managed to ascertain that the debt is for £786.04 and is for council tax owed for the period Apr - Nov 2005. A liability order was issued in court on 28th June 2006.

 

Now this is absolutely the first contact that anyone has made about this debt including Hounslow Council themselves, so it seems strange that I am being pursued for it over six years later. I was initially going to go down the statue barred route with the debt being older than six years but wasn't certain as to whether that was still possible after a liability order had been given and it was being handled by debt collectors.

 

Other information: The council have six names on their bill liable for the amount but I seem to be the only one to be contacted at the moment. (am in contact with all the others)

 

Contracts were never properly renewed at the property and I need to check but I'm pretty sure that I moved out before the bill date but does that even matter once the bailiffs have their grubby dishonest little mitts on it?

 

The Bailiffs are Newlyn, I have contacted the office and also the bailiff on my case. He isn't on the certificated register but would need to check name spelling before I'm sure. They have a phone number for me but not my current address.

 

Any help would be massively appreciated!

 

Peace!

 

L.

[dx100uk]

ctax cant be sb'ed however the further down the road it goes the less of a priority it actually is.

 

though the LO and any enforcemnent attached to it might well be suspect now.

 

i'd not be contacting nor paying any bailiffs, deal/pay the council only

 

dx

[Conniff]

The problem here isn't the bailiffs, but if you actually are liable for the outstanding amount.

With a liability order, the outstanding amount will not become statute barred.

 

Acertain the actual dates that the liability order is for and when you were in occupation. If you cannot show that you had left the property before the disputed bill, then you are liable either jointly or severally.

 

So get searching and if you can get the proof you need, then contact the council, not the bailiff, this isn't like a loan debt that gets sold on, it will always remain with the council.

[larold]

Thanks guys... So the onus would be on me to prove that I had moved out, they wouldn't have to provide proof ie. a valid contract that I was living there to get the liability order? And am I right in thinking that even though the council have six names on the bill, I am singularly liable for the full amount in the eyes of the bailiffs? And would you have any ideas how I could go about finding out if the liability order was suspect?

 

Thanks again!

 

L.

[seanamarts]

You would need to contact the revenues and benefits department and request all details on the debt.

If you can prove that you were not living there at the time the debt accrued, then the debt will be taken back from the bailiffs and that should be the end of it.

 

Were there 6 of you living there at the same time?

 

The council will always chase the first person on the CT bill regardless of how many were living there at the time, however, if this property was classed as a multiple let, then it is usually down to the LL to pay the council tax which should be counted in your rent.

[larold]

All six of us were living there at the same time. It was always our responsibility to sort out and pay council tax separate to the rent while we were there... Is there any other advice anyone has? It's going to be pretty tricky to prove that we weren't there, although I would have thought it would have been equally as tricky to prove we were there with the contracts we had not being renewed properly every year.

 

Also it seems strange that they can just take us to court and issue a liability order without first trying to contact us?! And then leaving it another six years before the bailiffs chasing in the debt.

 

Sorry for the questions but does anyone know if a liability order issued in court can affect credit ratings?

 

Thanks again.

 

L.

[Conniff]

The council needs a lawful document that says you are liable for the tax as they have no collection powers without it. With the order, they can legally collect the tax from you using various means which includes bailiffs and deductions direct from you salary/wages or benefits.

 

If you are not sure of anything, or even if you are doubtfull that you even owe the tax, then you can send a subject access request (along with £10) to the council and you will get a copy of everything they have on you including letters sent to you etc.

This will then give you the dates that you will have to check out. Can you contact the landlord, even if it was an ad-hoc affair, he should still know the dates you were in residence.

[larold]

So they would have had to present this document to obtain the liability order? Do you know if it's possible to challenge this?

[ploddertom]

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

In some repects things are loaded against you as it is permissible for the Council to claim they wrote to you at the last address they had for you. Did you tell them you moved? Did any of the others tell them they moved? Did the LL ever inform the Council when tenants moved in or out? Have the Council contacted any of the others or are they taking the easy option in making you pay it all?

 

PT

[Conniff]

So they would have had to present this document to obtain the liability order? Do you know if it's possible to challenge this?

 

 

No the council don't work that way. They just present a spreadsheet to the judge saying Mr x owes £x and the judge says ok, (unless the person turns up in court and can show they don't owe it), and stamps it. The council then hands over the £3 it gets charged and adds about £60 to your outstanding bill calling them court fees.

 

Councils like people going into arrears with their council tax as it makes them a lot of extra money. A spreadsheet can easily contain up to 500 names and at a cost of £3 for each name, that is £1,500. They then add around £60, (some up to £150) per name so 60x500 is £30,000, a nice little earner.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Conniff

[dx100uk]

and no it does not show on cra files

 

dx

[larold]

Thanks for all the info, it's all beginning to make a little bit more sense now... If it does turn out I was a tenant at the time of the bill would anyone be able to recommend a best course of action? This would obviously mean that no correspondence would have been received about this debt at the address although it would be our word against theirs.

 

Just wondering if there is an end in sight managing to avoid years of bailiffs deciding to give it another go at getting their money. Kudos to those who do it but it's a lot of time invested and I currently live with girlfriend and flatmate so there are others to consider also...

 

Ploddertom - Thanks for that, will get that info. The Landlord never informed the council who moved in and out it was always left up to us to do that and sort out bills/CT accordingly. I would have told when I moved I'm just not sure when that was right now. And yes, the council have six names on the bill but I am the only one being contacted by the Bailiffs right now.

[larold]

Related update... Can Bailiffs charge for a visit at an address they know I no longer reside at?? They're threatening to do so...

 

Many thanks.

[hallowitch]

All six of us were living there at the same time.

 

Are you all related to each other

 

If your not why would this not be classed as a HMO (I just wondered )

http://www.nationalhmonetwork.com/definition.php