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    • Heres a point, while we wait for @theoldrouge to condemn rather than promote and support right wing bigots spouting genuine and clear monstrous antisemitic rhetoric ... Isn't it actually specifically unlawful to promote violence against politicians on top of laws to criminalise such things? ... As is reported happening in these closed facebook groups run by Tory staff and where a Tory police minister and the Tory London mayor candidate are members and post?   .. or do the Tories (seemingly like tor) only promote laws for protecting the hate spouting hard right ?   "“Some of these (Tory facebook groups) posts constitute the most appalling racism and I would urge the Conservative Party to swiftly distance itself from these hate-filled groups and urgently investigate what role any Conservative politicians and officials have played within them. “Susan Hall and the Tory MPs who have belonged to these groups need to come out and explain why – and to denounce the content they have tacitly endorsed by their membership.” "Reporters found widespread racism and Islamophobia as well as conspiracy theories and celebrations of criminal damage on the pages, including sharing the white supremacist slogan and antisemitic videos. " "Unearthed found that 46 out of the 82 admins have clear links to the Tory Party, including a recent digital campaign manager for the party and a conservative activist. Conservative councillor for Haywards Heath, Rachel Cromie, is an admin on all the groups. "     Also interesting that Facebook groups opposing 20mph speed limit in Wales are being run by English Tories   Conservative-run anti-Ulez Facebook groups hosted racist and Islamophobic posts - Unearthed UNEARTHED.GREENPEACE.ORG Tory staff running Facebook groups described as 'cesspits of vile racism' WWW.THENATIONAL.SCOT TORY staff and activists are running Facebook pages which are riddled with white supremacist slogans and Islamophobic attacks... Conservative-run anti-ULEZ Facebook groups are rife with racist and violent posts   Conservative-run anti-ULEZ Facebook groups are rife with racist and violent posts - London Post LONDON-POST.CO.UK A coordinated network of 36 Facebook groups opposing London’s ultra-low emission zone (ULEZ), run by Conservative councillors and...  
    • Morning dx and thank you for your message.   With regards to your comment about them not needing to produce the deed, the additional directions ordered by the judge included 'a copy of any assignment o the debt or agreement relied upon'  so that is why I thought that point was relevant?
    • Sorry for the long post but I don't want to miss out any relevant information: My wife bought a car from Trade Centre UK and have been having nothing but trouble with it. Unfortunately we paid of the finance used to buy the car as we weren't expecting this much trouble with the car as we we though we would have protection as buying from a dealer. We are wondering if we can still reject the vehicle since the finance plan has been paid off. Timeline is as follows: 13/12/2023 -15/12/2023 Bought car from Trade Centre UK for £10548 £2000 deposit paid on credit card on 13/12/2023 £8548 on finance from Moneybarn (arranged through Trade Centre UK). picked up car on 15/12/2023 Also bought lifetime warranty for £50/month 25/12/2023 Engine Management Light comes on. The AA called out and diagnosed the following error codes: P0133 - Lambda sensor (bank 1, sensor 1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Slow reaction. Error sporadic P0135 - Lambda sensor heat. circ.(bank1,sensor1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Component defective Due to it being Christmas took a few days to get through to them but they booked me in for 28/12/2023 to run their own diagnostics. 28/12/2023 Took car in to Trade Centre so could check the car – They agreed it was the Oxygen Sensor and Booked me in for repair on 30/01/2024. I was told they had no earlier slots, and I would be fine to carry on driving car when I said I was afraid of problem worse. During diagnosing the problem, they reset the Engine Management Light. During drive home light comes back on. 29/12/2023 - 29/01/2024 I carry on driving the car but closer to the date, engine goes to reduced power every now and again – not being a mechanic I presumed that this was due to above fault. 20/01/2024 Not expecting any more problems paid off the finance on the car using personal loan from bank with lower interest rate. 30/01/2024 Trade Centre replace to O2 sensor (They also take it on a roughly 60mile road trip which seems a bit excessive to me – I can’t prove this as something prompted me take a picture of milage when I handed car in but I forgot take one on collection – only remembered next day.) 06/02/2024 Engine goes in reduced power mode again and engine management light comes on – Thinking the Trade centre’s 28 day warranty period was over I booked the car the into local garage for the next day to get problem fixed under the lifetime warranty package. Fault seems to clear after engine was switched off. 07/02/2024 In the Morning, I take it to local garage who say as the light gone off – the warranty company is unlikely to cover the cost of the repair or diagnostics and recommend I contact them when the light comes back on. In the evening the light comes back on and luckily I manage to get it back to the garage just before it shuts for the day. 08/02/2024 The Garage sends me a diagnostics video showing a lot error codes been picked up by their diagnostics machine including codes for Oxygen sensor and Nox Sensors, Accelerator pedal and several more. Video also shows EGR Hose not connected to the intake manifold properly, they believed this was confusing the onboard system as it is unlikely this many sensors would trigger at same the time but they couldn’t be certain until they repaired the hose. 13/02/2024 Finally get the car back as it took a while to get approval and payment for the repairs from the Warranty company. Garage told me to keep an eye the car as errors had cleared with the hose but couldn’t 100% certain that’s what caused the problem. 06/03/2024 Engine management light comes on again. Fed up I go into Trade Centre as I was just around the corner when it happened and asked them how to reject the car or have the problem fixed. They insist that as it’s over 28 days I need to get the car fixed under the warranty package I purchased and they could no longer fix the car as it was over 28 days. When I tried telling them it appeared to be the same or related problem they said they couldn’t help as I hadn’t contacted them earlier. I asked them if they were willing to connect the car to the diagnostics machine and tell me what the problem was, as a goodwill gesture, which he agreed to do and took the car to the back He came back around 30 minutes later and said they took a look at the sensor they replaced previously and there was nothing wrong with it and engine management light went off when they removed the sensor to check it. When I asked what the error code he couldn’t give me an exact fault but the said it one of the problems I told him earlier (Accelerator pedal). I have this visit audio recorded on my phone – I informed the reps I was recording several times. As the light wasn’t on, local garage couldn’t book me for a repair under warranty. 07/03/2024 Light came on so managed to book back into local garage for the 12/03/2024 Whilst waiting to take car into garage, I borrowed a OBD sensor and scanned for errors on the car. This showed the following errors: P11BE – Manufacturer specific code (Google showed this to be NOX sensor) P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow 12/03/2024 Took car to local garage and the confirmed the above errors. This leads me to believe that either Trade Centre UK reps lied and just reset the light or just didn’t check properly (Obviously I am unable to prove this) 22/03/2024 Finally got the car back as according to garage, the warranty company took a long to time to pay for the repairs 28/04/2024 Engine management Light has come back on. Using the borrowed OBD scanner I am getting the following codes: P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow P2138 - Accelerator Position Sensors (G79) / (G185): Implausible Correlation I have not yet booked into a garage as I wanted to see what my rights are in terms of rejecting the car as to me the faults seem related. I can’t keep using taxi or train to get to work every time the car goes into the garage as it is getting very expensive. Am I right in thinking that they have used up their chance to repair when they conducted the repair end of January or when they refused to repair it in February ? If I am still able to reject the vehicle could you point to any sample letters or emails I can use. Thankyou for your advice on my next steps.
    • Ok noted about the screenshot uploads. In terms of screwing up I had one previous ticket that defaulted and ended up in a CCJ from Southend airport because for some reason during COVID I didn't receive their claim form just a notice of default. This hospital ticket was the 2nd ticket that went to CCJ due to a lack of knowledge of the process. Maybe it's easier just to pay them in future I'm thinking though, I don't get them very often anyway
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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8000GBP retained by Bank of Scotland


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The FOS one doesn't need to be so long

I intend to send the following 3 letters. Please let me know if there is anything you might like to add:

 

To:

Financial Ombudsman Service

South Quay Plaza

183 March Wall

London

E14 9SR

 

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

I am writing to make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act 1998. Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

 

 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable. For identification purposes, I am also attaching a copy of my driving license.

 

To:

 

Mr. Hughes

Bank of Scotland plc

Customer Relations

Trinity Road

Halifax

West Yorks

HX1 2RG

 

 

 

 

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

Sort Code:

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

 

I am writing to make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act 1998. Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

 

 

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

 

 

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information.

 

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

 

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject access request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act Subject access request fee.

 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable. For identification purposes, I am also attaching a copy of my driving license.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

To:

 

Customer Care

Citymark

Third Floor

150 Fountainbridge

Edinburgh

EH3 9PE

 

 

29/12/2011

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr Carson,

 

 

I write your regarding your letter date 16th December 2009, your reference __/__/_____. For your convenience, please find attached a copy of this letter.

 

 

You have blocked my account citing that you are able to do so as per the terms and conditions. However, as I have never been provided with a copy of these, would you please send me a copy in order that I can check for myself, as obliged by Payment Services Regulations 2009

 

 

Also, please point out the actual section which allowed this blocking of my account. Would you also please be so kind and transcribe the section concerned.

 

 

I would also like to make a formal request for an update and if you can give me any more information at this time.

 

 

Considering that two years have passed since your block I would like to ask you to review the conditions that have caused the block and decide if they still apply. If they do not, I would like to ask you to release my funds immediately.

 

 

This is also a formal request to inform me if you have informed the police of any suspicions you might have and if so, please provide me with a crime reference number.

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Martin3030 of the site team has pointed this case out

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/79.html

I haven't read it but you should do

 

Maybe you can post a summary of it

 

Don't forget that that this was before BCOBS

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  • 2 weeks later...

HBOS plc replied:

 

Thank you for your recent request for access to the personal information held about you

 

Unfortunately the account number you have supplied cannot be located on our systems. Please reply to us with further information; account mnumber(s) and or previous address. We will be unable to process your request until we have these.

I wonder what this means. Are they stalling or really not able to find my information considering that they've just sent me a letter regarding my account 15 days ago? How are they supposed to give me all the data that they have about me if they can't find my name?
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Has the account number been taken from documents that you have from HBoS - If so, it does look like they are stalling.

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I'm trying to get my head round this.

 

Over two years ago, you made two large payments into your business account.

That seems to have triggered a decision to block your access to the account.

BOS refuse to tell you why

BOS also refuses to tell you what is happening

The FOS says go to court because they don't have the power to help you in this circumstance

You send an SAR to HBOS about the same account and they say that they don't recognise the account number

 

Is this all correct?

Anything more?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Waiting to hear from you about this. Also, we have had a BBC media contact which would like to talk to you about this.

 

Please would you contact me on our admin email address. Some BBC publicity would be very helpful to you I think.

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I'm trying to get my head round this.

 

Over two years ago, you made two large payments into your business account.

That seems to have triggered a decision to block your access to the account.

BOS refuse to tell you why

BOS also refuses to tell you what is happening

The FOS says go to court because they don't have the power to help you in this circumstance

You send an SAR to HBOS about the same account and they say that they don't recognise the account number

 

Is this all correct?

Anything more?

 

Yes, this is correct.

I've received today the reply to my formal requests. I think this is the most outrageous letter that I've received from them yet. Please read below and let me know if you have any suggestions.

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your complaint. I am concerned to hear about the problems you have had with your account. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience that we've caused you.

My understanding of your complaint is:

 

* We have blocked your account, citing that we are able to do so per the Terms and Conditions. You want a full and precise clarification of events leading up to the ''locking up of monies'' and events to date

* if we suspect fraud or other unlawful or illegal incidents, then you would like a Crime number and the Police Officer involved in leading the investigation

* you have never been provided with Terms and Conditions, so you would like to see a copy so you can check for yourself

* you want to know the actual section which allowed the blocking of your account, together with a transcribe of the section concerned

* you want repayment of all sums involved

 

I have investigated the matter on your behalf. My records show that you raised a similar complaint in 2009 and at that time, escalated your concerns to the Financial Ombudsman Service. They were unable to overturn the decision made by Bank of Scotland and suggested that you take legal advice.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the Terms and Conditions that were applicable to your account when it was opened. l am afraid that we are not obliged to provide a transcript of the actual section that authorized Bank of Scotland to freeze funds, or advise you of any action we may or may not take.

 

l hope I've explained why l believe we haven't made a mistake. l appreciate my decision may not be the one you wished for but I hope you understand the reasons for it.

 

I appreciate the trouble you have taken to get in touch with us. I hope I've explained matters.

 

I am very keen to make sure l have resolved your complaint fairly. If you feel I've misunderstood your complaint or have any father details you think I should know, please do not hesitate to come back to me.

 

If you remain unhappy, you also have the option to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service, so long as you do so within six months of the date of this letter. I've enclosed a leaflet providing contact details and information about their service. I've also enclosed a copy of our complaints leaflet which gives you details of our commitment to how we deal with complaints.

 

Micro-enterprises with a group annual turnover or balance sheet of up to 2 million euros (sterling equivalent) and who have fewer than 10 staff may be eligible to take their complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

If you have any questions about my reply or have any further information to add, I will be very pleased if you call me personally on 0845 609 4348.

 

Yours sincerely

Mrs Kim Hollyoak

Customer Services

Enc: Your Complaint and The Ombudsman leaflet

Complaints leaflet

 

Bank of Scotland plc. Registered in Scotland No. 5C327000. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh, EHI IYZ.

Authorized and Regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

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The terms and conditions:

 

15 Blocking the Account

 

15.1 We can refuse to carry out a transaction if We reasonably think that:

* You or someone else is using the Account illegally or fraudulently or outside the terms of the Agreement between You and Us',

* doing so might cause Us (or another company in the Lloyds Banking Group) to breach a legal requirement or might expose Us (or another company in the Lloyds Banking Group) to action from any government or regulator',

* You are the subject of a bankruptcy order or administration order or You have entered into a voluntary arrangement with Your creditors or where We reasonably believe that any of these are likely to happen', the relationship between You and Us has irretrievably broken down (for example You have been threatening or abusive to Our stable,

* there is a dispute (which We reasonably believe to be genuine) about the ownership or entitlement to the money in the Account',

* the payment seems unusual compared with the way You normally use Your Account or, in the case of a Card payment, it is being made in a location where We do not reasonably expect You to be;

* the terms of the payee's account prevent completion of the transaction',

* there are technical issues which prevent Us from executing the transaction',

* circumstances beyond Our reasonable control prevent Us from offering a normal service (such as computer failure or industrial action).

 

In addition, We may decide not to process payments to or from a limited number of countries or allow You to make Card payments there. We will tell You which countries if You ask Us or if You try to make a payment there.

 

15.2 We and/or any member of the Lloyds Banking Group may be subject to sanctions and/or embargos imposed by the international community including the UK, EU, UN and the USA. We may not accept instructions and may refuse to make any payment or take any action pursuant to an Instruction if it would result, or in Our reasonable opinion is likely to result, in a breach by it or any member of the Lloyds Banking Group or any of their respective employees of any sanction or embargo whether or not imposed in the UK and We will not be liable for any loss, damage, cost or expense by reason aforesaid. We shall be permitted to disclose to the relevant authorities such information in relation to any instruction and/or payment as may be required.

 

15.3 Provided it would not be unlawful for Us to tell You why We refused to authorize the transaction, We will notify You, either verbally or in writing when We have done this, within the designated maximum execution times for payment transactions set out in the About Your Account Leafed.

 

15.4 You can also contact Us to find out (unless the law prevents Us from telling You) why We have refused to ad on Your Instruction and how You can correct any factual errors that led to Our refusal.

 

There is also this paragraph:

 

6 Telephone and Internet Banking

You may be able to subscribe to telephone, internet or electronic services on any of Our Accounts. These services are governed by separate terms and conditions which are available on request and will be provided if You subscribe to them.

 

I think that they might refer to 15.1:

 

outside the terms of the Agreement between You and Us',

 

and to 6 - Internet service terms and conditions.

 

As they did not sent me the Internet Service Terms and Conditions I cannot know if I broke anything from there.

 

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

Regards!

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They are saying nothing at all.

Have you passed this on to the BBC? Have you checked that the BBC are running this story?

 

I think that you are getting to the stage where you will have to consider legal action. At least that will put pressure on them to explain because I can't imagine a judge being happy to be fobbed off with this

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Yes, well it has gone on so long that it will be worth waiting until April when hopefully the SCT limits will go up.

We'll be happy to help you plan your claim

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I have received today the reply to Subject Access Request from BoS.

 

There is no document specifying why my account has been closed.

 

There is a list of my inquiries with the bank and they appear to be incomplete as they refer to a message which is not in this list.

 

There is a list of messages with FoS. They told FoS that according to 25.1 of the Terms and Conditions they have the right to stop the customer from removing funds from the account. Funny enough I just received the Terms and Conditions from them in a separate letter and there is no 25.1, the last condition being 20.12. They've also told FoS that they blocked the account and put my funds into an internal suspense account.

 

It appears that I have contacted the bank asking why my account has been blocked and 2 days later they removed all the funds from my account with the mention "To close".

 

Please let me know if you have any advice on what should I do now.

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The good news is that Small Claims limits are definitely going up - to £10K. This will be in April.

 

I suggest that for the moment you concentrate on getting better compliance with your SAR. Challenge them and tell them that they have not complied with your SAR and that they are in breach of their statutory duty to do so. Tell them that they are also in breach of their duty under BCOBS to treat you fairly. Tell them that you want all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to you in any form and on any matter. Tell them that if there is material which they believe that you are not entitled to then you want a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

 

I suggest that you make a similar request to the FOS. The FOS will have 40 days but the NatWest have on obligation to comply now because they are already in breach. Tell them that you want to know full details of the suspension account - number, interest rate etc.

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The good news is that Small Claims limits are definitely going up - to £10K. This will be in April.

 

Great! How do I take them to court then?

 

 

I suggest that for the moment you concentrate on getting better compliance with your SAR. Challenge them and tell them that they have not complied with your SAR and that they are in breach of their statutory duty to do so. Tell them that they are also in breach of their duty under BCOBS to treat you fairly. Tell them that you want all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to you in any form and on any matter. Tell them that if there is material which they believe that you are not entitled to then you want a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

 

Thank you. I'm doing this right now. Is there a penalty for not complying with my SAR?

 

I suggest that you make a similar request to the FOS. The FOS will have 40 days but the NatWest have on obligation to comply now because they are already in breach. Tell them that you want to know full details of the suspension account - number, interest rate etc.

 

I don't think I really need to do this as I already know aprox. what BoS wrote to FoS from BoS's internal notes.

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I've prepared 3 letters:

 

1st to BoS - Subject Access Request Team

Dear Mr .....,

I am replying your recent letter regarding my Subject Access Request. For your convenience, please find attached a copy of your letter.

You have not complied to my SAR and you are in breach of your statutory duty to do so. You are also in breach of your duty under BCOBS to treat me fairly.

I demand a copy of all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to me in any form and on any matter. If you believe that there there is any material that I am not entitled to, then I would like a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

Yours faithfully,

 

2nd to the department that sent me the terms and conditions:

Dear Mrs ......,

I write your regarding your letter date ..........., your reference .......... For your convenience, please find attached a copy of this letter.

It has been brought to my attention from your internal notes that in your correspondence with FoS regarding my account you've enclosed a copy of the Terms and Conditions and pointed them to section 25.1 which gives you the right to stop the customer from removing funds from the account.

I have read the terms and conditions that you've sent me and there is no clause 25.1, the last one being 20.12. Please note that you are in breach with Payment Services Regulations 2009 to provide me with a copy of the terms and conditions. You are also in breach of your duty under BCOBS to treat me fairly.

I demand that you send me a copy of all the terms and conditions that apply to my account and point me to the section that entitles you to block the access to my account and, 2 days later, remove the money from my account and place them into an internal suspense account without my approval.

I require your response within seven (7) working days.

Yours faithfully,

 

3rd to FoS:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing regarding my recent subject access request. For your convenience, I attach a copy of my previous letter.

In order to comply with my SAR and to avoid being in breach of your statutory duty, I would like to highlight that I demand a copy of all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to me in any form and on any matter. If you believe that there there is any material that I am not entitled to, then I would like a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

Yours faithfully,

 

Please let me know if there is anything to change or add. I await your reply before sending them.

 

Regards!

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The going to court part is quite easy. More importantly is that you need to make sure that you have a solid and complete case against them

 

I think that you should SAR the FOS. If you have the £10 to do it, it won't do any harm. You have no idea what might turn up. You should make sure that you ask for everything but including internal notes and memos etc.

I won't do any harm.

 

The advantage of complaining to the court about non-compliance with an SAR is that if you can prove it, it will undermine the bank in terms of their credibility. Also it would be evidence of unfair treatment. You need to stack the odds against them so anything you can add to their problems will be helpful.

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I am thinking of changing the letter to BoS regarding Subject Access Request so I do not consider them in the breach of SAR so they will be obliged to send me the documents.

 

Please tell me what do you think about the letter below:

 

 

Dear Mr Paul Ecclestone,

 

I am replying your recent letter regarding my Subject Access Request. For your convenience, please find attached a copy of your letter.

 

 

I have received some documents in a reply to my Subject Access Request but they are incomplete. It appears that you have not sent me every document that you hold referring to me. The copy of the notes that you've sent me is referring to documents, notes and conversations about me that I have no copy of. Also there is no mention of how and why you've took the decision to block, and 2 days later close my account and put my money into an internal suspense account.

 

 

According to Data Protection Act 1998 I am entitled to see all copies of all the data you hold about me and I demand a copy of all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to me in any form and on any matter. If you believe that there there is any material that I am not entitled to, then I would like a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

 

 

My conclusion is that you personally were unaware of the remaining documents. I urge you to investigate closely and send me the remaining copies of the above so you will breach of your statutory duty to comply with my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998. I also remind you that under BCOBS you have the obligation to treat me fairly.

 

 

Regards!

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  • 1 month later...

It's been so long that I shall have to take some time to go through the thread again.

However, I owuld say that you are on the verge of going to court. The limits for small cliams are going up next month so you can wait a little while longer. In the meantime I think that you shold write to them and challenge them in respect of the SAR and tell them that they are in breach of the statutory request as they have not included any data in respect of the closyre of your account and the witholding of your money.

Tell them that even if the believe that they are holding data which is eempt for some reason or other, they are at least required to disclose that they are witholding some of you data and they should cite the exemption upon which they are relying.

They should also inform you as to how much data they are witholding including dates, reference numbers and the form that data is in - letters, memos, recordings etc.

 

Even if they don't reply to this, I think that it is a good idea to get it down in writing as their failure to respond will make them look more unfair and more unreasonable.

 

I can't remember but have you made a CIFAS complaint?

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I have already wrote them to challenge the SAR but they replied that they have already sent me everything that they are obliged by law.

 

I have no problem waiting one more month. But how do I take them to court next month?

 

I have not made a CIFAS complaint. Do I have to do it? I would prefer not to and take them to court as soon as possible as I'm quite fed up with this already.

 

Regards!

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Well I think that you should ask them to identify what they are witholding.

Yes, I think that you shoujld make a CIFAS complaint as a matter of principle.

 

I'll try to get back to you about the court case tomorrow

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  • 3 weeks later...

We've had a media enquiry about this story. Would you mid emailing me on our admin email address

Thanks

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  • 2 months later...

Hello!

 

Unbelievable! BoS has returned my money today.

 

I still do not know the reason why they blocked my account or why they put a hold my money. One thing is for sure: I will never bank with this bank or their affiliates again!

 

I want to find out why this has happened, in court if needed. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it is a similar reason of what happened in this case: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18540832

 

I would like interest on this amount, considering that they kept them 2 years and 7 months. Any idea what interest I can claim? If I am to use BoS's interest rate for their customers (26.8%), it would be 6836.29 GBP interest.

 

Can I claim any compensation for the time I spent to deal with this matter and/or damages?

 

Since I wrote in the forum last time, I have sent them several letters to which I've received ostentative answers and then, suddenly, they found "a trace" of my money and wanted to return them as soon as possible.

 

I am amazed by their anwsers which I would resume to: "Thank you for contacting us, Yes we've stole your money, we're not giving it back, there's nothing you can do. F..k off, do not write us again! We trust that this answer was satisfactory and solves all your problems.".

 

Here is what I wrote and what I have been replied:

 

My letter, sent on 15/02/2012

 

I write your regarding your letter date 6th February 2012, your reference ....... For your convenience, please find attached a copy of this letter.

 

It has been brought to my attention from your internal notes that in your correspondence with FoS regarding my account you've enclosed a copy of the Terms and Conditions and pointed them to section 25.1 which gives you the right to stop the customer from removing funds from the account.

 

I have read the terms and conditions that you've sent me and there is no clause 25.1, the last one being 20.12. Please note that you are in breach with Payment Services Regulations 2009 to provide me with a copy of the terms and conditions. You are also in breach of your duty under BCOBS to treat me fairly.

 

I demand that you send me a copy of all the terms and conditions that apply to my account and point me to the section that entitles you to block the access to my account and, 2 days later, remove the money from my account and place them into an internal suspense account without my approval.

 

I require your response within seven (7) working days.

[/Quote]

 

 

BoS's reply on 21/02/2012:

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 15th February 2012.

 

 

As previously advised, we are under no obligation to provide any information to you as to

why there is a block on your account.

 

 

I have already forwarded a copy of the Terms and Conditions. I’m sorry if any information received

from the Financial Ombudsman Service was incorrect but will not be changing the decision that has

already been made.

 

 

My position has been made clear and I will not be entering into any further correspondence with you

on this matter.

 

[/Quote]

 

 

My letter to BoS regarding SAR:

 

15/02/2012

 

Dear BoS,

 

I am replying your recent letter regarding my Subject Access Request. For your convenience, please find attached a copy of your letter.

 

I have received some documents in a reply to my Subject Access Request but they are incomplete. It appears that you have not sent me every document that you hold referring to me. The copy of the notes that you've sent me is referring to documents, notes and conversations about me that I have no copy of. Also there is no mention of how and why you've took the decision to block, and 2 days later close my account and put my money into an internal suspense account.

 

According to Data Protection Act 1998 I am entitled to see all copies of all the data you hold about me and I demand a copy of all notes, screen notes, internal mos and any other correspondence and records of phone calls and minutes referring to me in any form and on any matter. If you believe that there there is any material that I am not entitled to, then I would like a list of those documents including their dates and reference numbers.

 

My conclusion is that you personally were unaware of the remaining documents. I urge you to investigate closely and send me the remaining copies of the above so you will breach of your statutory duty to comply with my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998. I also remind you that under BCOBS you have the obligation to treat me fairly.

[/Quote]

 

 

Their reply, 1st of March 2012

 

 

Re: Data Subject Access Request

 

 

I am writing with reference to your Data Subject Access Request for information dated 9th

January 2012 and your subsequent letter of the 15th of February, 2012.

 

 

In light of your concerns that the Bank of Scotland has failed to provide you with all the

personal data you were entitled to under the Data Protection Act 1998 I have reviewed your

file. Subsequent to this review I can confirm that the information that was provided to you on

the 9th February 2012 contained all the personal information that the Bank of Scotland holds

on you that we are obliged to disclose under the Act.

 

 

If you feel that our interpretation of the Data Protection Act 1998 is incorrect, please contact

the Information Commissioner at Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9

5AF, telephone 01625 545745, or see the Commissioner’s website

http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.

[/Quote]

 

My letter from 14th of April 2012

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Formal Complaint about unfair treatment in breach of FSA BCOBS Regulations

 

You have been withholding my money for 2 years and 6 months which I will want back with interest.

 

During this time you have been treating me unfairly and contrary to your obligations under BCOBS

- you have failed to communicate with me contrary to BCOBS

- you have failed to give me any explanation as to why the access to my account has been restricted and funds removed

- you have failed to give me any target date when you will release my funds

- you have failed to tell me what are the conditions which I must to meet to release my funds

- to my knowledge, you have not informed the police regarding any issue you might have and you have not obtained a crime reference number. If you have a crime reference number you have failed to provide it to me

- you have failed to provide me with the terms and conditions of the account at the time of opening, contrary to BCOBS 3.1.6

- in particular you have sent me incorrect terms and conditions as you have referred on 17/02/2010 the Financial Ombudsman Service to paragraph 25.1 which does not exist in the terms that I have received on 09 February 2012, contrary to BCOBS 3.1.14

- You have failed to provide me with any statements of my account showing any outstanding balance with interest. I notice that you have disclosed to the FOS that the money has been moved to an internal suspension account, You have not provided me with any information as to the rate of interest on this account.

 

I wish this complaint to be brought before the Ombudsman Service and therefore I would like to receive your final response as soon as possible.

 

Please note that these complaints are about the way that you are handling this matter. This complaint is not about the repayment of my money – which is a separate issue. This means that even if you decide to repay me my money, I still wish this complaint about your breach of your statutory duty to be considered by the Ombudsman.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

[/Quote]

 

Their reply from 3rd of May, 2012. Note that their letter from 6th of February is in one of my previous post.

 

 

Thank you for your letter of 1 April. I have been asked to reply on behalf of the bank.

 

 

Having checked our records, I can see that you were issued a final response on 6th February

by my colleague, Kim Hollyoak. I have investigated matters independently and should explain

that we have dealt with your concerns in line with our procedures. As we have responded to

all aspects of your complaint, it is not appropriate for us to enter into further correspondence with you regarding matters.

 

 

As detailed in Kim’s letter, you have the option to ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to

review any aspect of your complaint and of course we will provide them with any information

they request and abide by any decision they make.

 

[/Quote]

 

I was going to tell them that they have not replied my formal request and the complaint was not about the issued raised on 6th of February, but I was away and not had the time to write them. When I got back in the UK I found this letter from BoS:

 

14 June 2012

 

 

I write with regards to the account xx-xx-xx xxxxxxx which was held with us in the name of ..... We have traced a balance of 6733.89 GBP and I would be grateful if you could provide us with

a short written instruction as to where you would like the funds transferred.

 

 

I have enclosed a reply paid envelope for your convenience and look forward to hearing from you. If

you have any queries in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact us on the number above.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Operations Management Team

Part of Lloyds Banking Group.

Bank of Scotland plc.

[/Quote]

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