Trouble with eBay Business Seller

[cds80]

Hello everybody! Glad I found you.

 

I'm having trouble with a business seller on eBay. I will outline the key points below for those of you who don't want to read the full thing :

 

• I ordered and paid for something in error late one night, and sent a cancellation request straight afterwards.
  
• The request was ignored the following day until I chased it up later on.
  
• I was told that the item had been posted First Class, the day after the order and that if I wanted to cancel I could return for a refund.
  
• I argued that I cancelled in a very reasonable timeframe and was not happy having to pay to return it.
  
• The package didn't turn up after several days so I ordered from elsewhere.
  
• Six working days later the package arrived, I took a photo of the exterior and rejected it.
  
• The franking and tracking information showed the package had in fact been posted four days after the initial order and not the next working day as stated by the seller.
  
• The seller now refuses to refund until I send the product back, although I never took posession of it.
  
• The tracking shows the item as "returning to sender" but as the sender neglected to include a return address, it is currently stuck in the Royal Mail system.
  

 

And now the long version for those brave/bored enough to read it :

 

Tuesday 29/11/11 around 10.00pm I purchased a product via Buy-It-Now with immediate PayPal payment. The problem was that this was the incorrect listing and what I actually wanted was the same product with an essential bundled extra. This listing was priced higher and came from the same seller.

 

Realising my mistake about 15 minutes later when the confirmation came through to my email, I quickly sent the seller a message via the resolution centre. A polite message along the lines of "Hi, really sorry but I clicked on the incorrect listing. What I actually want is ... and if you could refund and cancel this purchase I will place my order with you again". I chose the resolution centre as I knew that the seller would get an alert when they next logged in, and the message wouldn't get missed as can sometimes happen with conventional messages.

 

The next day (Wed 30/11/11) I got no reply and so I sent a message through the standard eBay system asking if they could cancel for me as per my message last night. I got a message back which said something along the lines of "no message received, item has been posted, please check your sent messages as we have nothing at this end". Note at this point that the item was supposed to go First Class with Royal Mail.

 

I send another polite message on 01/12/11 stating that I left a message in the resolution centre and got the response "item has now been sent sorry if you want to return item no problem at all".

Another message then, stating respectfully that I did inform them straight after the transaction and that by sending the item back I would incur unnecessary costs, especially as I actually wanted the item in question. To resolve things amicably I suggested paying the difference for the extra item, which I thought was quite reasonable.

 

This was ignored and on Sun 04/12/11 (5 days after the original transaction), I was starting to get annoyed. I sent a message stating that I wasn't impressed by the lack of responsibility and professionalism by a) shrugging their shoulders at the fact I had requested to cancel (to order from them again no less) and b) ignoring my suggestion to resolve matters. I chose this particular seller as they were "top rated" and a business, which generally give me more confidence than private sellers as I expect a professional service adhering to the DSRs. I realise I made the initial mistake, and I also gave them ample opportunity to cancel my order. I also hadn't yet received my item, which surprised me for something that was apparently posted First Class the day on 30/11/11. I asked that they respond to my suggestion by Tuesday 06/12/11 so that we could move on.

 

Instead of considering the resolution, I got a message straight back saying that the order was packaged with PayPal the same night as the order, and that the seller posted it on the way to work before even logging in to eBay. I was told that the seller was not "going to complain like you" and I could return the product for a refund and that we would both be out of pocket on postage. I asked what the seller had to complain about when the truth of the matter is that I ordered incorrectly, requested a cancellation straight after, suggested a way to resolve (paying the difference for the extra) and was ignored every time. Things escalated and I got called an idiot for not reading the advert properly and the poor seller had only been doing his job by posting the item out First Class the next working day, and had even sent it recorded delivery at no extra cost.

 

I didn't express my doubt at the item being posted next working day and decided to keep quiet and see when it would arrive. At this point I had no confidence in the seller and so placed my order with Amazon, deciding that I would reject the delivery when it finally arrived.

 

It eventually turned up on Thursday 08/12/11, six working days after the order was placed. Before rejecting the delivery, I took a photo of the package which had been marked at the post office as being dispatched on Saturday 03/12/11. I verified this by entering the tracking number into the Royal Mail website. So not only had the seller lied about dispatching on 30/11/11, but unless I had missed something the postage was conventional Post Office stuff and there was no printed PayPal postage in sight. In light of the fact it hadn't even been posted when I requested the order cancellation/amendment, I just can not understand why the seller could not simply charge the difference and send out the bundle instead. Even if the label had been printed, surely it could be transferred or printed again and put on another box. Things had been very polite up until that point so unless my messages were misinterpreted, I can't see the logic. Perhaps the bundle makes less profit than the item on its own, who knows.

 

Anyway, I opened a dispute on eBay after this stating that I want a refund. I never took delivery of the product, had requested cancellation from the very first day and my rights were ignored. The product is also no longer needed due to ordering from elsewhere. The seller tells eBay the delivery was rejected and that I should travel to my local depot to collect it. Tells me again that if I want a refund I can return it. I state that as per the tracking information, I don't have the product and it is being "returned to sender". The seller states that until he receives the product back he won't refund. I tell him that I didn't take delivery of it - as evident from the tracking - and ask what would happen if the item gets lost on the way back to him; would that be my problem despite the postage being his responsibility? He ignores this and states that as per eBay rules, he will not refund until he gets it back. I quote various parts of the DSR which he chooses to ignore, repeating his mantra. It comes out that he hasn't stuck a return address label on the box (I wonder why?).

 

If you got this far, the way I see it is this :

 

• He is obligated to abide by the DSRs as he is a high volume seller on eBay, registered as a business.
  
• He ignored my right to cancel, as evident by the date of postage.
  
• Whether he saw my message re: cancellation or not is inconsequential, as it was provided in a durable form, directly to him and within a very reasonable time frame.
  
• He has the contract with Royal Mail and is responsible for his own item until I take delivery of it, in which case the responsibility is then on me to take reasonable care of the item and ensure it is returned in good condition.
  
• If I had taken delivery of his product, he cannot demand it back before refunding me.
  
• He has to refund me after a maximum of 30 days after my request to cancel, regardless of whether the item is back with him or not.
  
• He didn't state in his terms and conditions that I would have to pay for the return postage, had I taken delivery of it. This means he would have to pay for me to return it as well as refund me.
  

 

If I have any of this wrong, please let me know.

 

I also need to know what I can do about this. The seller seems to be completely ignorant of his obligations as a distance retailer. He is relying on eBay's rules and decisions, who seem to be a law unto themselves. It is likely that eBay will rule in his favour via the resolution centre; according to their rules a "good faith dispute" does not exist if the item was rejected. Where do I go from there? A PayPal dispute?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Edited December 21, 2011 by cds80

[cds80]

OK, looking back at my post it is embarrassingly long! It would be really appreciated if someone could take a look at the brief summary at the top and my thoughts at the bottom. I'd like to know what you think, and more importantly what I can do about this.

[dx100uk]

if your paypal account is funded by a card

then do a chargeback

 

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

dx

[cds80]

Thanks for the response. I have just checked the transaction and unfortunately it was funded by my bank account through PayPal, although I do have a credit and debit card registered on the same account. I take it this won't help me?

 

Am I correct in my theory regarding the situation; ie. my rights and his obligations?

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Yes, you are right, under DSR you are entitled to a refund, the seller should not have sent the item.

 

I would file an ebay dispute, or a paypal dispute, the item shows as being on its way back to the seller so either will refund.

[cds80]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I opened a case on eBay on the 11th of December and initially there were messages back and forth, but the seller has now been quiet since the 14th. eBay will automatically close the case on January the 25th, which seems too late from a DSR point of view.

 

Should I "escalate" the case for eBay customer support to make a decision?

 

I would also like to open a PayPal dispute, should I do this after the eBay case if I don't get the desired result?

 

Thanks in advance.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Yes, escalate the case now.

 

I would not open a paypal case now, in fact, I don't think you will be able to.

 

I can't see the ebay case going against you, you have tracking to prove the item is on its way back to the seller.

[cds80]

Thank you for that, I have now escalated the case which incidentally is 30 days after the original request to cancel was made. I certainly do hope they side with me and the DSR, rather than their own rules in that the item must be back with the seller before a refund is made. Apparently I have to allow 24 hours for their decision so I'll let you know what the outcome is.

[iaintw]

the ebay seller is broken the ebay terms of services

you can do a charge back to your credit card

if you have internet banking their is a form for you to download and send the form back to them.

can you tell me what the mechant name so i can do a trace on them. ( I am trained in that)

You have the right to ring up ebay and tell them! They can do a violation against the seller.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Thank you for that, I have now escalated the case which incidentally is 30 days after the original request to cancel was made. I certainly do hope they side with me and the DSR, rather than their own rules in that the item must be back with the seller before a refund is made. Apparently I have to allow 24 hours for their decision so I'll let you know what the outcome is.

 

The last refund ebay issued me was before the item was back with the seller - rumour has it that ebay have had Trading Standards lean on them to stop them doing that.

[JAMIE.]

I had a problem once with a seller, & Ebay told me, "do not" send the package back until they refund you! I did just that, when the money was safely in my account I posted (with proof) the goods back to them..

[cds80]

Thanks guys.

 

I got a result last night and I'm pleased to say that eBay refunded me in full

 

I hope the seller starts taking note of his obligations as a distance seller - and certainly his customer care - but judging from his attitude I think he'll more likely see this as a mere speed bump. I wonder if he'll get his item back eventually. I get the impression he purposefully leaves the return address off in an attempt to shift responsibility so that customers feel the only option is to collect and send back at their own cost.