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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Hi Folks,

 

Briefly....started work for a compnay on 11th Oct 2011 and went on sick with Depression on 28th Oct. Reason is that I am a gay man and I received constant comments and 3 members of staff bullying and harassing me on a daily basis about my sexuality "wife" and my civil partnership. Hand drawn pictures (pornographic) of men.

 

I have submitted by grievance and am awaiting a meeting probably next week. I am only getting SSP and am at a financial loss of about £1,200 per month.

 

They are a SME company with about 30 employees and I feel at present I could not go back. My doctor is comitted to supporting me and as I am depressed he will keep signing me off till I am fit.

 

At the meeting do I suggest a Compromise Agreement ? I know I can take a Tribunal claim but don't feel I could afford this.

 

Your views would be helpful.

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Hello John and welcome to the forum. If you haven't had any answers yet, it's because the people with the right knowledge haven't looked in yet. Please bear with us, I'm sure they will turn up when they can.

 

I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm not sure it's for you to suggest a CA. I always thought that was for the other side, could be wrong.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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just to confirm.....you worked for 17 days before going on the sick?

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

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Hello again.

 

Playing devil's advocate, they might argue that 17 days isn't very long and suggest that the depression has been caused by something else in your life.

 

Can you prove what you've told us about discrimination to the employer if you need to?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello again.

 

Playing devil's advocate, they might argue that 17 days isn't very long and suggest that the depression has been caused by something else in your life.

 

Can you prove what you've told us about discrimination to the employer if you need to?

 

My best, HB

 

Yes I can prove that the comments were said and I detailed them as they happened. It became common practise for the comments and to be honest 17 days was enough. In 2011 you'd expect a more open and diverse workplace, its accepted people have their own views but not in the workplace. I feel I am the one that has done wrong - Im financially at a loss due to not working and I'd love to go back to work there, however the majority of the workforce would have to be willing to change their attitide to me - this is unlikley.

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Personally I think suggesting a compromise agreement sounds planned and contrived for a monetary end ie you entered the job with an agenda. Hence I wouldn't raise money until they do... stick to the actual facts of the grievance.

 

I agree with HB I would imagine a line of attack would be that you had the illness before and have entered the job with the sole intention to enact a legal remedy for a discriminatory matter come what may. Can you clarify if you have been involved in proceedings before for discrimination and if yes did you claim for a depressive illness? This is relevant as too many proceedings may prove that you are a vexatious litigant and go against you.

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Personally I think suggesting a compromise agreement sounds planned and contrived for a monetary end ie you entered the job with an agenda. Hence I wouldn't raise money until they do... stick to the actual facts of the grievance.

 

I agree with HB I would imagine a line of attack would be that you had the illness before and have entered the job with the sole intention to enact a legal remedy for a discriminatory matter come what may. Can you clarify if you have been involved in proceedings before for discrimination and if yes did you claim for a depressive illness? This is relevant as too many proceedings may prove that you are a vexatious litigant and go against you.

 

I have never claimed before, and the only reason I mention it was after looking on Equality website. My issue is that I had 17 days of unprovoked comments about my sexuality. This is not about money, its about trying to resolve the issue with my employer. I would consider working from home, I live in the real world and accept that 17 days work would mean little or no compensation. Its hard hearing comments and other related issues, that I wont go into on this forum. Thanks for your comments anyway folks.

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Hi John

 

Normally posters do actually go into "comments and other related issues" as these actually are very helpful when trying to help people with problems.

 

Assuming that you do have the evidence then the issuing of a grievance is the first steps you have to take, which I am sure you do know in any event.

 

I think you are right 17 days may attract little compensation... but then again courts and tribunals also are aware that discrimination has to be countered and punished appropriately, so not all is lost, I suppose it depends on the seriousness of the discrimination.

 

Have you any verifiable 'independent' evidence? Have you any union or friend to assist you at the grievance?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for your reply, my employer have allowed me to take an independent person from local Rainbow project. The grievance is set for 7th December and no I dont have any independent evidence. I do have emails from when I went sick and they employed someone and changed my sales to this persons name.

 

Hi John

 

Normally posters do actually go into "comments and other related issues" as these actually are very helpful when trying to help people with problems.

 

Assuming that you do have the evidence then the issuing of a grievance is the first steps you have to take, which I am sure you do know in any event.

 

I think you are right 17 days may attract little compensation... but then again courts and tribunals also are aware that discrimination has to be countered and punished appropriately, so not all is lost, I suppose it depends on the seriousness of the discrimination.

 

Have you any verifiable 'independent' evidence? Have you any union or friend to assist you at the grievance?

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Well met with person who is coming on grievance tomorrow at 10am. The anger has gone away, and I now ask myself what I want to achieve. All I know is that my work colleagues said some pretty terrible things against me and bullied and victamised me. Now I need to hold my head up, bight the bullet and go to the grievance with an open mind. In reality nothing gonna happen with exception of me possibly reconsidering my employment options over xmas......not so good. Any advise folks...greatly appreciated.

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Grievance took place yesterday 6/12/11. One of the original directors was "sick" so they had to replace with a worker from the office to take notes. I was assured of confidentiality but we will wait and see. They asked no questions and really asked me to read through my grievance and that was it. The lady I had from Rainbow project stated she would be happt to provide diversity training to company. Advised what I wanted as an outcome and said I needed to see the results of the investigation. I did ask them to consider paying me full pay while this was getting dealt with as I was at a financial loss during a stressful time of year.

 

That was it...no more questions and I will hear from them in due course. Seemed really strange they were told nothing new and I felt the meeting was a formality. Will keep you updated.

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Hi Folks,

Well its 7 days since my grievance and not a email or letter from my employer. I read the Company handbook in detail last night and it said they will resolve grievance within 7 days. At which stage I can appeal the decision. Im in a difficult place now because after getting some advice, and in the event of submitting a claim to ET I have alleged strict timescales. The problem I have is once I submit a claim I can probably say goodbye to my job and Im sure that the outcome will not be anything to be proud about.

 

Any advice on the next stage folks.

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i would put the ET1 in don't tell the company let it land on their door step! don't resign whatever you do, just go on sick leave, keep getting a sick note from your GP, but dont resign, get the ET1 in asap, dont answer calls from the company, keep everything in writing and just stay off sick, if you have the ET1 in and are off sick, they will have to pay you even if its ssp and they cant sack you when your off sick, if they do you have an extra claim for wrongful dismissal against them, dont resign stay on the payroll even if it means being on ssp, let them sack you, just stay on sick leave and let them sack you, it will make your position much much stronger

 

you can also put in the ET1 the company have failed to respond to your grievance in the time given in its own policy and are therefore in breach

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Hi Folks,

Well its 7 days since my grievance and not a email or letter from my employer. I read the Company handbook in detail last night and it said they will resolve grievance within 7 days. At which stage I can appeal the decision. Im in a difficult place now because after getting some advice, and in the event of submitting a claim to ET I have alleged strict timescales. The problem I have is once I submit a claim I can probably say goodbye to my job and Im sure that the outcome will not be anything to be proud about.

 

Any advice on the next stage folks.

 

It is not uncommon for employers to breach their own policies when dealing with grievances do not read anything into the delay. I think they are getting legal advice and were advised just to get information from you but give nothing away at the grievance hearing.

 

Filling in the ET1 and staying on sick leave might be your best option because you would be unlikely to get another job between now and end of Jan or early Feb.

 

From the little you have said about the workplace, it does not sound like the type of place you would want to work in. Only you can decide if you want to give them another chance. Putting in an ET1 is nearly always viewed as a criminal act by the employer but it is your right and it can always be withdrawn. Plus it is free and you can do it online!

 

As for the 17 days, well this type of abuse is illegal, so that is not an issue. Moreover, if you have no history of depression, what basis is there for arguing that anything other than the abuse you suffered caused your depression. You were in a new situation where you did not know the people and it came as a total shock. I once had to leave a job after only one month because of an abusive co-worker. Management wanted me to stay but refused to deal with the issue so I felt that I could not risk it happening again. It was really depressing and disappointing to be unemployed again after just a few weeks.

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LOL Marie..... "criminal act by the employer" They invariably don't see their own criminal acts .... and in fact ACTUAL criminal acts against employees in many cases.
Just say the words "statutory right" or even the more obscene "Protected Act" and hear their teeth grind as their faces turn purple.
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Just say the words "statutory right" or even the more obscene "Protected Act" and hear their teeth grind as their faces turn purple.

 

I agree they do not like victimisation allegations at all as they tend to indicate 'personal' actions and drag individuals in to justify their own actions. That is why I like it so much, as it takes the fight to the bullying management. ......... not that I am bitter just like evening up the battleground.

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I agree they do not like victimisation allegations at all as they tend to indicate 'personal' actions and drag individuals in to justify their own actions. That is why I like it so much, as it takes the fight to the bullying management. ......... not that I am bitter just like evening up the battleground.

 

I believe they just hate the idea that making an ET claim is a right and that it is actually illegal to victimise a worker for doing so. This is all very clear in law but in reality nothing could be further from the truth. The facts are;

 

Raise a grievance - result whitewash -prepare to be dismissed a while later for misconduct or on capability grounds

 

Make and ET claim - your job is gone - be prepared for protracted legal battle - poverty - nervous collapse - low figure settlement from ET if you win

 

Redeployment after grievance or ET claim - victimisation and dismissal on grounds of misconduct or capability

 

Why do we bother to fight this ? Because it is wrong!

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Totally agree with what your saying down here below

 

Make and ET claim - your job is gone - be prepared for protracted legal battle - poverty - nervous collapse - low figure settlement from ET if you win (Employers think they are above the law and you the employee dont have any rights whatsover, you will always get a lower figure, best bet would be to settle out of court, but make life hell for your employer at the same time)

 

Redeployment after grievance or ET claim - victimisation and dismissal on grounds of misconduct or capability (Why would any employer offer you redeployment after grievance or ET claim, if you settle and sign some compromise paper, you have lost your rights to restart the ET claim anyway, suppose they would want you back after settling the ET claim and then just get you sacked after a few weeks or months knowing fully well you have signed your rights away to start the ET1 claim again, is this what you mean?)

 

What is the employers covert plan to ask you to back into work and be redeployed, whats the mentality in that?

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Totally agree with what your saying down here below

 

Make and ET claim - your job is gone - be prepared for protracted legal battle - poverty - nervous collapse - low figure settlement from ET if you win (Employers think they are above the law and you the employee dont have any rights whatsover, you will always get a lower figure, best bet would be to settle out of court, but make life hell for your employer at the same time)

 

Redeployment after grievance or ET claim - victimisation and dismissal on grounds of misconduct or capability (Why would any employer offer you redeployment after grievance or ET claim, if you settle and sign some compromise paper, you have lost your rights to restart the ET claim anyway, suppose they would want you back after settling the ET claim and then just get you sacked after a few weeks or months knowing fully well you have signed your rights away to start the ET1 claim again, is this what you mean?)

 

What is the employers covert plan to ask you to back into work and be redeployed, whats the mentality in that?

 

I did not say anything about a compromise agreement. Redeployment is usually negotiated in return for withdrawal of the ET Claim or as part of a resolution of a grievance.

 

In disability or harassment cases involving grievances but sometimes ET claims where the worker remains employed, redeployment is an option (I mean different job because of disability or to get away from bullies). If this happens, there are 2 options for employer.

 

1.Give orders for you to be left alone.

 

2. After a respectable period get rid of you for some trumped up reason.

 

 

I think redeployment like reinstatement is rarely considered for anyone who has made an ET claim, but it does happen. Also in this economic climate workers feel obliged to consider it, despite the obvious pitfalls.

Edited by Marieleeza
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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update - work have not replied to grievance. They have however said, that they are paying me full pay for December/January due to where my allegation has led them. Not sure what that means but hopefully they are taking seriously and believe me.

 

I have also now looked at submitting a ET claim and will decide on their outcome. Have been advised to submit before 9th Jan so may ask for some help here beforehand

Edited by johnvernon74
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  • 3 weeks later...

Further update folks - Employer has not responded to grievance raised originally on 3rd November 2011 and grievance meeting on 7th December 2011. Took advice from a solicitor at start of January and have raised a ET under Sexual Orientation Discrimination.

 

This is not what I wanted and as a small company its gonna be impossible (probably) to go back and work there.

 

My employer has however, spoken to my solicitor after a letter was sent to him last week when ET1 filed. He has advised he will discuss and speak to my solicitor this week, so Im hoping that something can be resolved soon. I am however not stupid and expect loosing my job and compromise agreement is possibly only way forward.

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