HELP PLEASE on REGULATION 9 OF HOUSING BENEFIT ACT 2006

[BTW]

hELLO all, DO YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT REGULATION 9 OF THE hb ACT?

 

Does anyone know of someone who can REPRESENT ME AT the TRIBUNAL COURT. xxxxxxxxx

 

thank you

HELP DESPERATELY NEEDED

[rebel11]

Hi btw

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

There is quite a bit of knowledge on this site, so if you can provide more info, then the guys can provide some clear advice.

[BTW]

THANK YOU SO MUCH replying rebel11 for !

 

I bought a house with 2 other brothers to help family. The mortgage was being paid by elder brother. When he lost his job, he transfered the house to me.The mddle brother left his marital home and returned to the family home and because of divorce, transfered his share to me! I have never lived at the said property but to support family, I agreed. The mortage was being paid with the help of HB given to the divorced brother. The council was told the landlord was related to tenant.

 

However, my elder brother did not qualify for HB because of the 5 year rule. This was 7 years ago. He had to repay all the overpayment for HB and now the Council say it is not paying because of the regualtion 9 of the HB act.

 

I have been to the tribunal twice, the case was adjourned because once, the council did not turn up, and 2nd time because our solicitor did not turn up!

 

This is our LAST chance to get council to pay HB. They pay for my 2nd (divorce brother) so why not the first? They are both related to me and both transfered property in my name at the same time.

 

PLEASE PLEASE HELP

[ErikaPNP]

Regulation 9 of the Housing Benefit regulations states the following:

 

Circumstances in which a person is to be treated as not liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling

 

9.—(1) A person who is liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling shall be treated as if he were not so liable where—

(a)the tenancy or other agreement pursuant to which he occupies the dwelling is not on a commercial basis;

(b)his liability under the agreement is to a person who also resides in the dwelling and who is a close relative of his or of his partner;

©his liability under the agreement is—

(i)to his former partner and is in respect of a dwelling which he and his former partner occupied before they ceased to be partners; or

(ii)to his partner’s former partner and is in respect of a dwelling which his partner and his partner’s former partner occupied before they ceased to be partners;

(d)he is responsible, or his partner is responsible, for a child of the person to whom he is liable under the agreement;

(e)subject to paragraph (3), his liability under the agreement is to a company or a trustee of a trust of which—

(i)he or his partner;

(ii)his or his partner’s close relative who resides with him; or

(iii)his or his partner’s former partner;

is, in the case of a company, a director or an employee, or, in the case of a trust, a trustee or a beneficiary;

(f)his liability under the agreement is to a trustee of a trust of which his or his partner’s child is a beneficiary;

(g)subject to paragraph (3), before the liability was created, he was a non-dependant of someone who resided, and continues to reside, in the dwelling;

(h)he previously owned, or his partner previously owned, the dwelling in respect of which the liability arises and less than five years have elapsed since he or, as the case may be, his partner, ceased to own the property, save that this sub-paragraph shall not apply where he satisfies the appropriate authority that he or his partner could not have continued to occupy that dwelling without relinquishing ownership;

(i)his occupation, or his partner’s occupation, of the dwelling is a condition of his or his partner’s employment by the landlord;

(j)he is a member of, and is wholly maintained (disregarding any liability he may have to make payments in respect of the dwelling he occupies as his home) by, a religious order;

(k)he is in residential accommodation;

(l)in a case to which the preceding sub-paragraphs do not apply, the appropriate authority is satisfied that the liability was created to take advantage of the housing benefit scheme established under Part 7 of the Act.

(2) In determining whether a tenancy or other agreement pursuant to which a person occupies a dwelling is not on a commercial basis regard shall be had inter alia to whether the terms upon which the person occupies the dwelling include terms which are not enforceable at law.

(3) Sub-paragraphs (e) and (g) of paragraph (1) shall not apply in a case where the person satisfies the appropriate authority that the liability was not intended to be a means of taking advantage of the housing benefit scheme.

(4) In this regulation “residential accommodation” means accommodation which is provided in—

(a)a care home; or

(b)an independent hospital.

[BTW]

THANK YOU EricaPNP. but what does it mean? I read it on the net but could not make sence of it at all.

 

Circumstances in which a person is to be treated as not liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling:

 

9.—(1) A person who is liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling shall be treated as if he were not so liable where—

(a)the tenancy or other agreement pursuant to which he occupies the dwelling is not on a commercial basis;

not liable- does it mean not eligible for HB ?

commercial basis; does this mean business related?

Both brothers' tenancies were signed and witnessed by solicitors.

Does anyone knows of someone/or a solicitor who can unjargon this for me? PLEASE?

 

 

[BTW]

HELLO SITE team or anyone....Can someone please explain to me what the below means in English? Circumstances in which a person is to be treated as not liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling: 9.—(1) A person who is liable to make payments in respect of a dwelling shall be treated as if he were not so liable where—(a)the tenancy or other agreement pursuant to which he occupies the dwelling is not on a commercial basis;thank you, BTW awaiting nervously for a reply

[Madge67]

Hi BTW

 

In order to be eligible for HB, there MUST be a libility to pay rent. Thats the first step. No liability = No HB.

 

However, the regs state that in some cases even where there is a liability to pay rent, they will be still treated as though there isnt one and goes on to state the circumstances where this applies, i.e, the list provided in Erikas post.

 

it looks as though they have turned you down as they do not beleive the tenancy is on a commercial basis. There are many things the council will have looked at in order to come to this decision some of them I have listed below:-

 

1) How did the tenancy come about, was it advertised and would it have been available for anyone else to rent.

2) Is there a written agreement? If there isnt, it could be an indication that the agreement isnt commercial.

3) What is the relationship between Landlord and tenant

4) Are there rent arrears, if so what (if any) action has been taken to recoup these monies

5) What would happen if Housing Benefit wasnt awarded, woul;d they be allowed to stay in the property or would they be evicted.

6) How was the figure for the rent reached.

7) Is the rent relective of similar properties in the area?

 

This list by no means exhaustive but gives you an idea of wsome of the things that are taken into account. Can I ask, who is actually living at the property?

 

When they sent a letter to your brother advising of their decision not to pay HB under reg 9, what were the reasons they gave?

 

When your brother appealled against the decision, he should have been sent a copy of the appeal submission which would include all the relevant information, including the reasons the Council believe it is not commercial. Does he have this? If so to prepare for the appeal he needs to address each point or reason they have given and provide a response that will sway the tibunal officer on appeal day. He doesnt necessarily need to be represented at the appeal, but he does need to prepare fully beforehand. Ive known the CAB to represent at appeal so this may be an avenue to pursue.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on

[BTW]

Hello Madge, your post helped me a lot. My reply is below. Could you 1) How did the tenancy come about, was it advertised and would it have been available for anyone else to rent.:House bought between 3 brothers, (1 never lived there, one returned after a failed marriage and 1 always stayed there, paying mortgage until made redundant.) 2) Is there a written agreement? If there isnt, it could be an indication that the agreement isnt commercial: as soon as I realised he cannt pay mortgage, I set up a tenancy for him, contacted council and explained situation. They started paying HB only to then retake it under the 5 yr rule. He is paying HB O/P3) What is the relationship between Landlord and tenant : YES, and the council are awre of this 4) Are there rent arrears, if so what (if any) action has been taken to recoup these monies : large arrears I was thereated with repossession and got other members to help 5) What would happen if Housing Benefit wasnt awarded, woul;d they be allowed to stay in the property or would they be evicted: HB awarded for middle brother from same council. Eviction difficult due to children 6) How was the figure for the rent reached. : rent similar to neighbourign area/size....determined by the council leaflet....Can I ask, who is actually living at the property? 1st and middle brother living there now....My council tax has been paid to anothr council and have proof of that. I know this is a very difficul area of the HB act but none of us set out to make money or defraud the council. The council were aware that we were all related. what are your thoughts?????ps DO YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO CAN HELP ME? pleaseBTW

[Madge67]

Glad it helped. This regulation is by far the most complex so i can understand the confusion and worried you may have. As I said previously the list of questions I gave were just examples of what is taken into consideration when the council decide if they think the arrangment between you and your brothers is commercial or not. One point you made was that they paid one of your brothers. Surely if the agreement is on the same basis, I think they are on very dodgy ground by agreeing to one and not the other by stating non commerciality as the .

reason.

 

I am interested in what explanation your brother has been given for them saying it isnt commercial. If they havent given him one, then I would strongly advise him to write to them asking why they feel the tenancy isnt commercial. Bear in mind atht your brother will have had one month from the date that the council decided not to pay hb, to appeal against the decision or ask for a review. If that time limit has passed, he has to ask for a late appeal and give reasons why it is late. My point is really that unless he has been given full details of the decision and the reasons why (called a statement of reasons), he wont really know what he has to appeal against and this is therefore the starting point for him.

 

Once he has received his statement of reasons then he can either appeal to the tribunal or ask for a reconsideration and reply to each reason they have given to convince them that the agreement is in fact commercial.

 

What date did he receive his letter from the council telling him that he was not entitled to HB?