help with dept collection

[olliedog12000]

Hi

could anyone advise me of what my next step could be after bailiffs fail to recover a debt,

I am owed a sum of money after being sold a clocked car but even after winning the case and getting a warrant of execution I am still left with nothing as the defendant keeps trying to appea to every order the court makesl Which just delays payment

This has been going on since Feb this year so I was wondering if I could get the case transfered to the high court or Is there another method I could use.

 

Any help would be great as I have just come back empty handed from the CAB because they don't know what I can do.

[bottomburp]

If you have judgment to say that the Defendant owes you more than £750 (and I assume it says he owes you a specific amount) what about serving him with a statutory demand? This is a nasty thing to have served on you as it can lead to a bankruptcy petition so if the Defendant has the money he should pay up. It's probably not worth doing a statutory demand if you don't intend to follow through with a petition should he not pay up. IMHO it is not worth serving a Petition if they don't have the dosh because it costs a bit and you'll just join a list of creditors.

[olliedog12000]

If you have judgment to say that the Defendant owes you more than £750 (and I assume it says he owes you a specific amount) what about serving him with a statutory demand? This is a nasty thing to have served on you as it can lead to a bankruptcy petition so if the Defendant has the money he should pay up. It's probably not worth doing a statutory demand if you don't intend to follow through with a petition should he not pay up. IMHO it is not worth serving a Petition if they don't have the dosh because it costs a bit and you'll just join a list of creditors.

 

Ideally that is my last resort, It's just over 2k that is owed so possibly worth doing if all else fails, I was hoping that is I Writ from the high court and use a different bailiff that might be enough to recover the debt.

[ploddertom]

Is this someone that sells cars as a trade and does he have a few on his "forecourt" or does he any other assets you know of. Transferring your Judgment to the High Court for a Writ of FiFa is a relatively simple process - cost approx £60. The High Court Enforcement Officer is a more tenacious beast than the County Court Bailiff. If for some reason they do fail then there may be an abortive fee of approx £80 to pay. There are plenty of companies that offer this service - Google HCEO - however please be warned that biggest isn't always best.

 

PT

[olliedog12000]

@ Ploddertom

This bloke advertises on autotrader as a trader but after some chatting with trading standards I have found out he isn't a registered business, which the DJ didn't seem to care about at the time. I am getting very frustrated because this has been going on since Feb and I have to drive past his house every day to work and all I see are the cars changing on his drive every other day. The county bailiff has failed twice to recover anything so I think it's time to up the game with him.

[ploddertom]

I wonder if he is claiming any Benefits? Registered for VAT? Registered with HMRC and pays his taxes? If he sells on Credit does he have an appropriate licence to do so? Any complaints made to Trading Standards? Just thinking out loud if you get my drift.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Have read

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/Makingacourtclaimformoney/DG_195828

 

PT

[olliedog12000]

I wonder if he is claiming any Benefits? Registered for VAT? Registered with HMRC and pays his taxes? If he sells on Credit does he have an appropriate licence to do so? Any complaints made to Trading Standards? Just thinking out loud if you get my drift.

 

PT

 

I am yet to look into this purely for selfish reasons ie I want my money first,

I first contacted trading standards back in October last year and gave them at least 20 different cars he was selling around the time I bought mine, they gave he a warning that he should register the business but he has not and also they have done nothing to follow up,

I really do feel let down by the whole justice system at the moment, especially the Judge as when we were in court I explained we needed the 4x4 because we have a 4 year old girl that has leukemia and the year before we got snowed in so the police had to use their 4X4 to get her medication to us and I explained this at the time of purchase to the seller but does any body care!, She has finished treatment now just if you are wondering.

[TweedleDee]

I am yet to look into this purely for selfish reasons ie I want my money first,

 

That is the end goal for a creditor, not judgment but to get money back.

 

Bankruptcy or insolvency though technically viable are not effective for recovery of monies due as you will end up being an unsecured creditor and will only see some money once the debtor's priority and secured creditors have been satisfied.

 

How he conducts his business, which in this case is most likely as a sole trader is irrelevant to your current dilemma. Let trading standards and the council worry about his business conduct and business rates.

 

You may lodge as many different types of enforcement as you want (barring attachment of earnings which can only be used on its own).

 

If I was not sure of his assets, income, outgoing and bank details, I would personally issue a N316 which is an application for the court to order the debtor to come in for questioning.

 

The application notice will amongst other things, clarify whether you want the debtor to be questioned in front of a judge (good reason required) and if you want the debtor to bring along specific documents to court such as tax returns, bank statements for current, business and savings account, credit card statements, etc.

 

You may attend court yourself and ask the questions or the court office may ask your additional questions by attaching a list of proposed additional questions to your application notice.

 

Have a look at form EX140 which is what the debtor will be expected to answer:

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex140_bi_0403.pdf

 

Be sure to ask for other assets such as plasma screen TVs, fur coats, etc, as people conveniently forget that they are assets that may be sold.

 

There are two more crucial points, service of the documents and the debtor's expenses.

 

The document needs to be served personally as the risk of non-attendance or non-compliance is jail time for contempt of court. You can either serve it yourself or have a bailiff do it if you are a litigant in person.

 

Within 7 days of receiving the order, the debtor can request their reasonable expenses to attend court and that you will have to pay.

 

You will need to file affidavit evidence at least 2 days before the hearing stating how the debtor got served, whether they asked for travel expenses and the outstanding amount due under form EX550 linked below.

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex550_0302.pdf

 

There are a bunch of hurdles to jump over however knowing thy enemy is half the battle won. Not knowing thy enemy is the war lost.

 

Good luck.

Edited November 6, 2011 by TweedleDee
clarified late night rambling

[olliedog12000]

Thanks TD that looks like a good idea to use the n316 when I looked at the questions it basically asks I though wow I wouldn't want anyone knowing my business like that so I might go down this route. You say I need good reason to do so, surely that fact that he hasn't come up with the money but can go to the car auctions and buy more cars to sell Shows he is deliberately ignoring the judgement and doesn't intent to pay me the money is good enough to call him to court again?. thanks for the advice by the way it really helps.

[TweedleDee]

You say I need good reason to do so, surely that fact that he hasn't come up with the money but can go to the car auctions and buy more cars to sell Shows he is deliberately ignoring the judgement and doesn't intent to pay me the money is good enough to call him to court again?

 

Not a problem. When I mean by good reason is a good reason for this hearing to take place in front of a judge instead of a court officer. You do not want the hearing in front of the judge in the first instance because the normal process is that you or your representative will have to question the debtor, no written record will be kept as you will be doing the questioning but there will be a recording, and form EX140 will not be used. The alternative is that the court officer will question the debtor along the lines of EX140 as well as your addendum. So I would personally go with the court officer.

 

It is another option to consider but you have to follow the process.

 

Please read CPR 71.

 

So submit the application without notice to the debtor.

Then personally serve the debtor the order.

Fill in affidavit evidence.

Attend court.

 

Good luck.

Edited November 6, 2011 by TweedleDee
fat fingers

[ploddertom]

Tweedledee has given you some good advice and there is plenty to digest with what he has said. I do have one thought over this and that is that your Defendant does indeed appear to know how to play the system but think that may only appertain to the Court bailiff and he may well fold with sterner action.

 

PT

[olliedog12000]

Tweedledee has given you some good advice and there is plenty to digest with what he has said. I do have one thought over this and that is that your Defendant does indeed appear to know how to play the system but think that may only appertain to the Court bailiff and he may well fold with sterner action.

 

PT

 

I think you are right, other than the information the pair of you have given to me,

I was convinced that if the bailiff failed to recover anything I had no other option, So I could not see why he would continue to try and appeal, surely if he knew the system he would just not answer the door to the bailiff and wait to see what my next move would be?

[ploddertom]

The reason I sai that is because the HCEO would possibly seize & remove his cars then face any 3rd Party claim via Interpleader.

[olliedog12000]

This is whats getting to me, I know he buys the cars from auction but doesn't register them in his name but the county bailiff said unless the cars are in his name he can not seize them, which I find ridiculous because they are all sat on his drive and if you look on autotrader for them it's him mobile number and home number, now that to me is enough proof.

 

I have contacted my local auction houses to see if they could tell me if the cars had been sold through them, No details just if they have sold them but all i get is No because of the data protection act, do you know if I could request these details under the freedom of information act as they could have a baring on my case?

[ploddertom]

Short answer is no. The only real way to find out would be to go yourself and make notes. FOI requests only apply to public bodies eg, Council, Police etc

[olliedog12000]

Short answer is no. The only real way to find out would be to go yourself and make notes. FOI requests only apply to public bodies eg, Council, Police etc

 

Bugger!! lol

[Ganymede]

Does he own his house? Have you considered a Charging Order?

 

Bankruptcy is going to cost you around a grand to apply for and you will get a small % of the debt back.