Cap1 & CCA return

[un1boy]

If you have a HP agreement Section 85 does not apply. Section 85 only applies to credit tokens i.e credit cards and has nothing to do with an agreement being unenforceable

 

Battleaxe, if I have a credit card agreement that has no presctribed terms and is thus unenforcable, can I still claim sec 85?

[un1boy]

Banking | Current accounts | Savings accounts | Cash ISAs - MSN Money UK - HSBC bans poor customers from branch in Poole

 

Shouldn't think I'll be moving my account here.Typical BS from the banks

 

Is that not discrimination?

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

Have just had a lovely letter from CrapOne today informing me that they are increasing all their interest rates from June. (soooper!) Market forces and all that b*****ks!

 

But the interesting bit is that they have enclosed a sample 'new' version of my 'credit agreement' (standard T&C format) that will apparently apply to my account from June. This is in the format required by the 2006 amended CCA and looks pretty comprehensive.

 

But IMO my credit agreement is the one I signed when I took the card, approx 2001/2, which is quite likely to be in the form of one of those 'pseudo agreement' application jobs and most likely not containing any/all prescribed terms etc.

 

I'm really not sure that they're allowed to do this, but just in case I am firing off a DPA TODAY asking for all data including the agreement I signed!! I want the chance to challenge that document if applicable before they slip in a new one!! :eek:

 

Regards, Pam

[Guest Battleaxe]

Battleaxe, if I have a credit card agreement that has no presctribed terms and is thus unenforcable, can I still claim sec 85?

 

 

Section 85 has been discussed in some depth on this thread. If you go back a hundred or so pages you will find Section 85 in full. it has nothing to do with an the unenforceable agreement. It is to do with the breaches of the of not sending a true ciopy of your executed agreement with the second and subsequent cards. the generic mailer they send out with the replacement does not comly with the Act, although the banks eem to think it does.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Hi all

 

Have just had a lovely letter from CrapOne today informing me that they are increasing all their interest rates from June. (soooper!) Market forces and all that b*****ks!

 

But the interesting bit is that they have enclosed a sample 'new' version of my 'credit agreement' (standard T&C format) that will apparently apply to my account from June. This is in the format required by the 2006 amended CCA and looks pretty comprehensive.

 

But IMO my credit agreement is the one I signed when I took the card, approx 2001/2, which is quite likely to be in the form of one of those 'pseudo agreement' application jobs and most likely not containing any/all prescribed terms etc.

 

I'm really not sure that they're allowed to do this, but just in case I am firing off a DPA TODAY asking for all data including the agreement I signed!! I want the chance to challenge that document if applicable before they slip in a new one!! :eek:

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

Way to go Pam. I have already done this with Crap One and have a copy of the psuedo agreement and this is what I am using as unenforceable. They have already removed all the charges off our accounts, so now I have hit them with Section 85 for the heck of it. Nothing like keeping them busy.

[ian1969uk]

Hi all

 

Have just had a lovely letter from CrapOne today informing me that they are increasing all their interest rates from June. (soooper!) Market forces and all that b*****ks!

 

But the interesting bit is that they have enclosed a sample 'new' version of my 'credit agreement' (standard T&C format) that will apparently apply to my account from June. This is in the format required by the 2006 amended CCA and looks pretty comprehensive.

 

But IMO my credit agreement is the one I signed when I took the card, approx 2001/2, which is quite likely to be in the form of one of those 'pseudo agreement' application jobs and most likely not containing any/all prescribed terms etc.

 

I'm really not sure that they're allowed to do this, but just in case I am firing off a DPA TODAY asking for all data including the agreement I signed!! I want the chance to challenge that document if applicable before they slip in a new one!! :eek:

 

Regards, Pam

 

Well, they can introduce all the new style agreements they like, but unless we sign it then it still won't be enforceable will it?

[Guest Battleaxe]

Somewhere in the T & C's they have the right to vary the conditions of the Agreement, so I don't think it is material that you have to sign the new agreement, (Pam please correct me here, you have the new look Agreement). i think it is accepted that you concur with the new Agreement unless you object, it is fait accompli.

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

The cancellation notice and information on how to cancel are normally contained within the 2nd copy of the agreement that is sent within 7 days of signing (or in the case of a credit card, either before, or with, the card) as per the notices and copies regs.

 

This document is not referred to in the agreement as it is a copy of the agreement but with cancellation info added and so does not come within the 'any other document' part of a s77/78 request.

 

Also the creditor's stamp on this copy appears to contain what is probably a printed signature.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi are we looking at diferent agreements the one i see says details of cancelation wil be sent does that not conform with another document?

 

Peter

[ian1969uk]

Somewhere in the T & C's they have the right to vary the conditions of the Agreement, so I don't think it is material that you have to sign the new agreement, (Pam please correct me here, you have the new look Agreement). i think it is accepted that you concur with the new Agreement unless you object, it is fait accompli.

 

Yes, but unless they can provide the original document to prove we ever agreed that they could vary the terms and conditions, they couldn't claim that the new style agreement was binding.

 

Also, if the old document was unenforceable for any reason, then they couldn't enforce the right to introduce the changes.

 

The only way they could hold us to the new agreement is if the old one was provided and was spot on in terms of form and signature. If this is the case, then we have no leg to stand on with them anyway, so bringing in the new agreement is irrelevant.

[Peterbard]

Hi Pam

 

"This document is not referred to in the agreement as it is a copy of the agreement but with cancellation info added and so does not come within the 'any other document' part of a s77/78 request."

 

Yes it does The cca says any other document mentioned in it, and it is where it says cancelation details to be sent.

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Originally Posted by Battleaxe

Somewhere in the T & C's they have the right to vary the conditions of the Agreement, so I don't think it is material that you have to sign the new agreement, (Pam please correct me here, you have the new look Agreement). i think it is accepted that you concur with the new Agreement unless you object, it is fait accompli.

 

 

HI

 

Yes they can vary the agreement but you are only liable for any obligations on the orriginal agreement.

 

Peter

[JonCris]

It's a con trick! Don't sign

 

The 2006 Act is NOT retrospective. Agreements entered into prior to the 2006 Act are still valid as per the 1974 Act

[Stornoway]

I'm having severe problems getting a default removed and would really appreciate some advice. Basically three credit card companies have confirmed that they cannot provide a copy of my CCA agreement but ALL of them are refusing to remove default notices. My argument is that they do not have my consent to process my data but all three say that they dont need the consent as long as it says in the trems and conditions of the account that they can process the data. The information commissioner has now backed the banks' stance. Full story is here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/80501-no-credit-agreement-but.html#post726806

 

Any help much appreciated !!!

[zubo]

I'm having severe problems getting a default removed and would really appreciate some advice. Basically three credit card companies have confirmed that they cannot provide a copy of my CCA agreement but ALL of them are refusing to remove default notices. My argument is that they do not have my consent to process my data but all three say that they dont need the consent as long as it says in the trems and conditions of the account that they can process the data. The information commissioner has now backed the banks' stance. Full story is here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/80501-no-credit-agreement-but.html#post726806

 

Any help much appreciated !!!

 

The ICO is a toothless clueless pr++k. Scuse my anger. I'm going to complain to my MP that ICO are demonstrating bias and not correctly interpreting their duties. Besides which arent they a private Quango appointed by the Queen - maybe I should complain to HM.

 

Anyway - try this strategy - sent to me by Mamatemi1 - it includes all template letters and expected responses:

 

Remove Default Notices on a Credit File - We show you how

 

Z

[tamadus]

Hi tam

 

Is it Lowell by any chance? If so, they only employ phantom collectors to do their home visits - several people on Lowell's 'hit list' (myself included) have waited in for the promised collector but he hasn't materialised!

 

Phantom? materialised? Groan!!!:grin:

 

Regards, Pam

 

Sorry not Lowells

But an equally useless bunch of fools as the company is relying on it's parents registration with the ICO. Besides its arbitrary anyway as I am just about ready to drag Barclaycard kicking and screaming into court to get the matter resolved once and for all.

[tamadus]

Tam,

 

Have you looked into this indemnity charge, how it was presented (sold) and whether it applies(d) to you at the time it was sold?

 

You need more details of it, in particular look at mis-selling of insurance.

 

Tide

 

Tide this is an ERC

[tamadus]

Tam,

 

You should check the small print. In mine, they stated that they could visit providing there was two weeks notice. That was back in 1991.

 

They visited anyway without notice and I have them under Article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998 - a Right to Privacy.

 

You need to explore their rights to receive, store or process your information under the DPA 1998.

 

Tide

 

Without registration as a data controller they have no rights Tide and they have now been told that

[tamadus]

Hi all

 

Have just had a lovely letter from CrapOne today informing me that they are increasing all their interest rates from June. (soooper!) Market forces and all that b*****ks!

 

But the interesting bit is that they have enclosed a sample 'new' version of my 'credit agreement' (standard T&C format) that will apparently apply to my account from June. This is in the format required by the 2006 amended CCA and looks pretty comprehensive.

 

But IMO my credit agreement is the one I signed when I took the card, approx 2001/2, which is quite likely to be in the form of one of those 'pseudo agreement' application jobs and most likely not containing any/all prescribed terms etc.

 

I'm really not sure that they're allowed to do this, but just in case I am firing off a DPA TODAY asking for all data including the agreement I signed!! I want the chance to challenge that document if applicable before they slip in a new one!! :eek:

 

Regards, Pam

 

Your correct Pam the 2006 ammendments are not retrospective and only apply to new agreements taken out after it becomes effective.

[tamadus]

Somewhere in the T & C's they have the right to vary the conditions of the Agreement, so I don't think it is material that you have to sign the new agreement, (Pam please correct me here, you have the new look Agreement). i think it is accepted that you concur with the new Agreement unless you object, it is fait accompli.

 

BA I don't think the right to amend T&C applies to the entire agreement. The right of amendment only allows them to amend things like interest rates etc, It doesnt allow them to produce a completely new agreement and say it applies UNLESS we sign the new agreement.

 

My opinion is that by NOT signing it automatically shows we don't agree to it. fait accompli

[Guest Battleaxe]

BA I don't think the right to amend T&C applies to the entire agreement. The right of amendment only allows them to amend things like interest rates etc, It doesnt allow them to produce a completely new agreement and say it applies UNLESS we sign the new agreement.

 

My opinion is that by NOT signing it automatically shows we don't agree to it. fait accompli

 

I wasn't sure and was putting forward an argument put to me by our favourite bank Tam. they told me by not signing a certain piece of documentation a couple of years ago and letting it ride, meant that I agreed. In fact I did not agree and refused to sign, but my slip up was I did not write and tell them this fact. They also said their T & C's stated they could do this. I have learnt never let it slide, write and object.

 

I certainly wouldn't sign a new agreement, in fact it would be sent back with a red X right through it and the words 'stuff it' written over the face of the document, knowing what I know now.

[joneshousehold]

There is an interesting (if minor) point that has come up on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74700-dca-turning-nasty-3.html

 

from post 41. It's about the deadlines of 12 working days plus 1 month. Does anyone know the correct interpretation?

[SteveH2508]

There is an interesting (if minor) point that has come up on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74700-dca-turning-nasty-3.html

 

from post 41. It's about the deadlines of 12 working days plus 1 month. Does anyone know the correct interpretation?

 

As I posted on the other thread:

The default starts at the twelfth day so 1 month on from then is when the offence kicks in. It is 12 working days + 1 calendar month.

[joneshousehold]

Thanks Steve, just having a senior moment!

[paulwlton]

Question: what exactly should a statement of account contain for the creditor to comply with a CCA request.

 

Paul

[un1boy]

Section 85 has been discussed in some depth on this thread. If you go back a hundred or so pages you will find Section 85 in full. it has nothing to do with an the unenforceable agreement. It is to do with the breaches of the of not sending a true ciopy of your executed agreement with the second and subsequent cards. the generic mailer they send out with the replacement does not comly with the Act, although the banks eem to think it does.

 

Hi Battleaxe, that is Ab Fab!

 

My agreement has no presribed terms and they won't removed the defaults -I want to claim sec 85 to put more pressure on them.

 

I'll be in touch!!