Cap1 & CCA return

[Sparkie1723]

hi, i have a quick question. I have a card that i took out about oct 07 and transfered a large balance to it. am i still able to try and make a claim under the CCA or does this card come under a newer CCA which means i have no case. thank you

HI paulrob2808

ALL credit agreements proviede they are still in force are regulated by the New ConsumerCredit Act ammendments, the old Act is still in full force, except the amendments make it stronger....you still have a claim.

 

sparkie

[paulrob2808]

Thanks for that, i will send my letters off,

[car2403]

I can see another great debate on the following subject.

 

Many Credit Card credit agreement say for credit limit:

This will be determined from time to time etc.

 

1983 CCA regulations say:

 

Credit Limit

 

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or there is no credit limit.

 

Writing time to time is not a manner to be determined if you know were I am coming from.

 

If they put for the prescribed term for interest rate “interested will be determined from time to time" it would make the agreement unenforceable.

 

Any comments

 

HAK

 

Usually, though, the T&C's do state how it will be determined and how they will notify you of it.

 

For example, "your account will be reviewed regularly and we will determine your credit limit based on that and notify you of it on your monthly statements", blah, blah, blah...

[MAGDA]

I can see another great debate on the following subject.

 

Many Credit Card credit agreement say for credit limit:

This will be determined from time to time etc.

 

1983 CCA regulations say:

 

Credit Limit

 

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or there is no credit limit.

 

Writing time to time is not a manner to be determined if you know were I am coming from.

 

If they put for the prescribed term for interest rate “interested will be determined from time to time" it would make the agreement unenforceable.

 

Any comments

 

HAK

 

Hi Hak, unfortuantely that doesn't make the agreement unenforceable. I have an Egg agreement which doesn't have a specific credit limit stated, just that it will be determined..... and apparently this is acceptable as per the following which was discussed on another thread:

 

Quote: "Unfortunately I don't think you will have any joy, have been looking at the OFT statement on this and 8.5 says:

 

"8.5 What is meant by ‘credit limit’?

Sch 6 para 3 applies to running-account credit agreements. In such cases the agreement must include a term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined, or that there is no credit limit. This is also required by Sch 1 para 8 – see Q3.10.

The credit limit may, by virtue of Sch 1 para 8, be expressed as a sum of money, or a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time and notified to the debtor, or a sum of money together with a statement that the creditor may vary the credit limit from time to time and notify the debtor. "

 

So, unfortunately, it seems that the creditor can actually do this. Magda

[pt2537]

Hi Hak, unfortuantely that doesn't make the agreement unenforceable. I have an Egg agreement which doesn't have a specific credit limit stated, just that it will be determine..... and apparently this is acceptable as per the following:

 

Unfortunately I don't think you will have any joy, have been looking at the OFT statement on this and 8.5 says:

 

 

"8.5 What is meant by ‘credit limit’?

Sch 6 para 3 applies to running-account credit agreements. In such cases the agreement must include a term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined, or that there is no credit limit. This is also required by Sch 1 para 8 – see Q3.10.

The credit limit may, by virtue of Sch 1 para 8, be expressed as a sum of money, or a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time and notified to the debtor, or a sum of money together with a statement that the creditor may vary the credit limit from time to time and notify the debtor. "

 

So, unfortunately, it seems that the creditor can actually do this. Magda

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/169828-egg-card-cca.html#post1832419

 

the words Credit limit MUST be used, no other word is permissible, this is t he opinion which i have been given by three leading barristers including one Qc

[paulrob2808]

you will be getting a donation from me, without sites like this, people like me would not stand a chance. thanks

 

as for my egg card, i do have a credit limit stated

[MAGDA]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/169828-egg-card-cca.html#post1832419

 

the words Credit limit MUST be used, no other word is permissible, this is t he opinion which i have been given by three leading barristers including one Qc

 

Very interesting pt. My Egg agreement, like those discussed by you, states only that they will tell me from time to time the approved limit. It doesn't mention credit limit at all as you say. I am currently disputing the validity of my Egg agreement, so that is certainly very helpful.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

you will be getting a donation from me, without sites like this, people like me would not stand a chance. thanks

 

as for my egg card, i do have a credit limit stated

 

Your agreement is probably a more recent one then, is it? The older ones, like mine, all tend to be quite vague.

[Number6]

Hi all

 

I need an authoritative answer concerning what exact wording is allowable within the confines of the signature area of an agreement regulated by CCA 1974.

 

I'm sure this info is here somewhere but I'm really short of time.

 

Could someone please tell me the permitted wording?

 

Thanks very much.

 

Pete

[pt2537]

Hi all

 

I need an authoritative answer concerning what exact wording is allowable within the confines of the signature area of an agreement regulated by CCA 1974.

 

I'm sure this info is here somewhere but I'm really short of time.

 

Could someone please tell me the permitted wording?

 

Thanks very much.

 

Pete

Pete, what type of agreement is it your looking at?

[fergal71]

hi pt I have read many of your threads and you do sterling work... I have read today about challenging agreements on unfair relationship provision within the act.... Is this something you use????

[Number6]

Sorry pt, it's a credit card application form being touted as an agreement. I intend to shoot it down in flames. The final touch is the signature box area which is headed "Please sign and return your application by xx/xx/xxxx" followed by the "This is a credit agreement....etc" bit.

 

Pete

[pt2537]

Sorry pt, it's a credit card application form being touted as an agreement. I intend to shoot it down in flames. The final touch is the signature box area which is headed "Please sign and return your application by xx/xx/xxxx" followed by the "This is a credit agreement....etc" bit.

 

Pete

 

here you go

 

This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer

Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally

bound by its terms.

 

Signature(s)

of Debtor(s)

 

[Number6]

Thanks pt.

 

On the app form I have here the first line within the signature box is "Please sign and return your application by (date)" in large bold type.

 

This is followed on the next line, and in smaller type by "This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by it's terms".

 

Then comes the debtors signature and the date.

 

What part of the CCA, or which regulation does this miswording breach?

 

Pete

[pt2537]

Its in the Agreement Regulations Pete

 

SI 1983/1553, the ones i refered you to the other week;)

[Number6]

Sorry pt, I thought that was the case but my memory is like a sieve these days so I wanted to be sure.

 

I appreciate your time and knowledge, many thanks.

 

Pete

[noomill060]

Sent a s.78 request for a copy of my Morgan Stanley agreement.

 

In return they sent me a copy of Barclaycard Conditions from around the same time I applied for my Morgan Stanley card!

 

Heres the letter which accompanied it:

 

[noomill060]

Dont forget- it was an agreement for a Morgan Stanley card which was requested!

 

This is contemporary with my MS application and is what Barclaycard appear to claim are the original terms of my MS card.

 

Edited November 26, 2008 by noomill060

[noomill060]

I do not believe that this satisfies my s.78 request.

 

It doesnt satisfy s.61 (b) never mind s.61(a) Its a set of conditions for a product from entirely different company!!

 

Shall I go for a declaration of unenforceability on top of my claim for PPI?

 

Their reponse to a complaint about PPI was that premiums were applied in accordance to T&Cs, so presumably as T&Cs seem to have gone AWOL that fillets their donkey.

 

But... can I then draw the judge's attention to this (in POCs of course) and say "hey look, your Honour- no agreement!!"

Edited November 26, 2008 by noomill060

[steven4064]

Hi noomill

 

I think it probbaly does satisfy your s78 request - thay are allowed to respond with a copy of an application form and current T&Cs. These would be the current T&Cs since BC took over MS.

 

You are right that it doesn't satisfy s61 though. As such, s65 says that only a court can enforce it. Section 127(3) limits what the court can enforce and this comes nowhere near the criterion.

[gaz2006]

what does s61 say is there a link to it

[gaz2006]

Its in the Agreement Regulations Pete

 

SI 1983/1553, the ones i refered you to the other week;)

 

where is a link to si1983/1553 boys ?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Gaz2954!

 

what does s61 say is there a link to it

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

where is a link to si1983/1553 boys ?

 

Good question, this is a b*gger to find usually...can't help on that one.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[pt2537]

where is a link to si1983/1553 boys ?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/statutes-library/27535-consumer-credit-act-1974-a.html#post1209707

[banker_rhymes_with]

Thanks PT!

 

SI 1983/1553 doesn't come up in the...

 

The UK Statute Law Database

 

...for some reason. At least not searching for it as SI 1983/1553, or 1983, or 1553, or Consumer!

 

Unless I'm not pressing all the right buttons!

 

Good to see it was on CAG all along.

 

Cheers,

BRW