Cap1 & CCA return

[shooter001]

Ah so the documents they sent me to constitute a valid agrrement are missing the statement so it would be unenforceable.

[maybelline]

Now where to start

 

Sorry m reply meant for

Shooter

 

 

Regards

Peter

 

bank balance! (me not you)

[shane5408]

Ah so the documents they sent me to constitute a valid agrrement are missing the statement so it would be unenforceable.

 

shooter,

 

did they send you any t&c's and are they current to the time you applied the card?

 

In all agreements i've seen they always state 'by signing this agrement you agree to be bound by our t&c's.'

 

If the statement re: credit limit is in the t&c's i think it would count.

 

I'm sure peter will verify

 

regards,

shane

[Peterbard]

Yes thats what i meant bank ballance;)

[shooter001]

Now where to start

 

Sorry m reply meant for

Shooter

 

 

Regards

Peter

 

Hi i will post the links to the image so you could download or zoom them.

 

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/shooter8777/page1001-1.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/shooter8777/page3001-1.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/shooter8777/page2001.jpg

 

If you have any probs I know you can right click and choose save as then you can open them in a windows application other than explorer.

 

regards,

 

Craig.

[Peterbard]

shooter,

 

did they send you any t&c's and are they current to the time you applied the card?

 

In all agreements i've seen they always state 'by signing this agrement you agree to be bound by our t&c's.'

 

If the statement re: credit limit is in the t&c's i think it would count.

 

I'm sure peter will verify

 

regards,

shane

Hi

Sorry Shane

 

All Prescribed terms have to be within the agreement not an outside sheet see section 2 of the regulations.there can be no linking to T and cs or anything esle if it isnt in the agreement it does not count as being part of the agreement, having the notice "in signing this i agree to be bound by some other peice of paper that you could have substtuted for the combined workes of Enid Blighton and put Tand c's on top" does not count if you havn't signed it it don't count no sir.

 

Sorry time to rest

 

Best regrds

Peter

[shooter001]

shooter,

 

did they send you any t&c's and are they current to the time you applied the card?

 

In all agreements i've seen they always state 'by signing this agrement you agree to be bound by our t&c's.'

 

If the statement re: credit limit is in the t&c's i think it would count.

 

I'm sure peter will verify

 

regards,

shane

 

the images I posted above are all i got sent and some parts are completely unreadable.

 

regards,

 

craig.

[shane5408]

Hi

Sorry Shane

 

All Prescribed terms have to be within the agreement not an outside sheet see section 2 of the regulations.there can be no linking to T and cs or anything esle if it isnt in the agreement it does not count as being part of the agreement, having the notice "in signing this i agree to be bound by some other peice of paper that you could have substtuted for the combined workes of Enid Blighton and put Tand c's on top" does not count if you havn't signed it it don't count no sir.

 

Sorry time to rest

 

Best regrds

Peter

 

 

no worries peter, always glad to be corrected! especially in this instance as its in favour of debtors rather than creditors!

 

Well, there you have it shooter, unless somewhere on the agreement they have stated the credit limit will be forthcoming in lieu of not specifying it, the the judge will be precluded from making an enforcement order.

[Peterbard]

Hi Shane

Sorry the last post came out a bit snotty.

 

It's my age i suppose

 

Best regards

Peter

[noomill060]

Not snotty Peter- definative.

[shane5408]

Hi Shane

Sorry the last post came out a bit snotty.

 

It's my age i suppose

 

Best regards

Peter

 

not at all peter, I'll always want to be corrected when I overlook something, hopefully this way i won't loose to often in court!

 

hope you had a good rest!

 

regards,

shane

[noomill060]

Enid Blyton wrote some of the greatest works of children's fiction.

 

The authors of many credit agreements appear to share the same gift....

 

[noomill060]

The Famous Five-

 

Barclays

 

MBNA

 

Lloyds

 

Midland

 

NatWest

 

(Not forgetting Goldfish the Dog)

[elizabeth1]

Sorry for interupting guys - just a little question - putting aside the CCA stuff.

 

If say I've a default issued in say 2000 - can the same firm renew it in 2006 as a new default with a new 5 year time span? Can they do this?

[maybelline]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/11659-how-get-your-default.html?highlight=default

 

try this thread, there are quite afew now on defaults and the related issues, I will be there somewhere also! good luck:)

[ian1969uk]

Sorry for interupting guys - just a little question - putting aside the CCA stuff.

 

If say I've a default issued in say 2000 - can the same firm renew it in 2006 as a new default with a new 5 year time span? Can they do this?

 

I wouldn't have thought so, how can you default the same agreement twice?

[elizabeth1]

Thanks Maybeline & Ian,

 

I didn't think so - just seems another dirty tactic huh?

 

Blimey lots of us would be defaulted forever if they could do this?

[rich2568]

HI

I am firmly of the opinion that if the prescribed terms are not contained within the agreement as required by section 2 of the regs then they are not in the agreement and it is unenforceable.

Saying "when is sign this means i have read " is not enough. The document you sign must contain those particular sections or it is not correctly executed the regulations make this clear on several occasions.

Thinking about it what does it mean that you agree you have read***

could be anythng as long as it says T and cs on the top. No you need to have read and they need to be able to prove you have read the particular information that is rquired and the only way to do thatis to produce a signature on that documen at the time of execution.

 

 

As per cancellaton in the new agreement regs if an agreement is none cancelable it has to say so on the agreement so that simplifies the matter.

 

As far as pre 2005 aggreemets the critera is as stated earlier or again on my agreement enforceability thread. Bear in mind that most credit card companies although not officialy required to give cancellaion rights do so any way and if the box next to your signature says," when you sign you wil have a short time to cancell we will advis etc "then the agreement can be treated as any other cancellable agreement with all the requirements of sending cancellation rights.

 

As for Egg i have not dealt with many of these i think from what i have sen they are mostly on line appications which prior to Oct ober 2004 would have had no compulsarry cancellation rights after that date however the would need to comply with the distance marketing regulation and give a 14 days cancellation period.

 

REgards

Peter

 

 

Thanks for your reply Peter- I think you have clarified it!!

[un1boy]

Hi

Sorry Shane

 

All Prescribed terms have to be within the agreement not an outside sheet see section 2 of the regulations.there can be no linking to T and cs or anything esle if it isnt in the agreement it does not count as being part of the agreement, having the notice "in signing this i agree to be bound by some other peice of paper that you could have substtuted for the combined workes of Enid Blighton and put Tand c's on top" does not count if you havn't signed it it don't count no sir.

 

Sorry time to rest

 

Best regrds

Peter

 

Peter, can you email please a copy of the regs please? I'll PM my email address because you have not replied ot my emails recently, so maybe I have your old one.

 

My TS told me that the agreement can be over 2 pages (ie, prescribed terms on one and sig on another) they also told me that they think it's ok for them to give me an online print of the T and C's that were relevant at the time, rather than the ones that were applied to the agreement. the lender in question say that they don't send T and C's out but the agreement says they are enclosed.

 

TS did also say thought that it is up to a court to decide. (What is the point of them then?)

 

I could do with talking to you about this. I have not been keeping up this thread as much as I used to due to personal commitments.

[un1boy]

Sorry for interupting guys - just a little question - putting aside the CCA stuff.

 

If say I've a default issued in say 2000 - can the same firm renew it in 2006 as a new default with a new 5 year time span? Can they do this?

 

They can't renew it. The next step if you didn't keep up repayments is court.

 

The default is only lawful if they sent a default notice which complies with section 86 (i think) of the CCA....if they didn't then it's not lawful!

[Peterbard]

Peter, can you email please a copy of the regs please? I'll PM my email address because you have not replied ot my emails recently, so maybe I have your old one.

 

My TS told me that the agreement can be over 2 pages (ie, prescribed terms on one and sig on another) they also told me that they think it's ok for them to give me an online print of the T and C's that were relevant at the time, rather than the ones that were applied to the agreement. the lender in question say that they don't send T and C's out but the agreement says they are enclosed.

 

TS did also say thought that it is up to a court to decide. (What is the point of them then?)

 

I could do with talking to you about this. I have not been keeping up this thread as much as I used to due to personal commitments.

 

Hi

Uni

As if i would ignore you

I have trried to send the 1983/1553 on several occasions but they keep coming back.

I will try again if you want to email me on

[email protected]

 

I will try it by return

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Peter, can you email please a copy of the regs please? I'll PM my email address because you have not replied ot my emails recently, so maybe I have your old one.

 

My TS told me that the agreement can be over 2 pages (ie, prescribed terms on one and sig on another) they also told me that they think it's ok for them to give me an online print of the T and C's that were relevant at the time, rather than the ones that were applied to the agreement. the lender in question say that they don't send T and C's out but the agreement says they are enclosed.

 

TS did also say thought that it is up to a court to decide. (What is the point of them then?)

 

I could do with talking to you about this. I have not been keeping up this thread as much as I used to due to personal commitments.

 

HI

Yes the agreement document can be over as many pages as it takes but the pages must be part of the same document not a differnt document Heade terms and conditins.

 

Look at it another way section 62-63 say that when you sign you should be given a copy of your agreement this is the Tand cs. So at that point you will have two documents. When you request a true copy of the agreement, you are asking for just that not the copy one or two which are in fact just information about your agreement but a copy of the leagally binding document you signed.

After all if therei s no information on the agreement itself then what is "The Copy" a copy of?

 

Best regards

Peter

[un1boy]

Hi

Uni

As if i would ignore you

I have trried to send the 1983/1553 on several occasions but they keep coming back.

I will try again if you want to email me on

[email protected]

 

I will try it by return

 

Regards

Peter

 

Cheers, I wasn't implying you were ignoring me!!

 

I'll email you when I get hom, if that's ok? No access to my emails here!

[un1boy]

HI

Yes the agreement document can be over as many pages as it takes but the pages must be part of the same document not a differnt document Heade terms and conditins.

 

Look at it another way section 62-63 say that when you sign you should be given a copy of your agreement this is the Tand cs. So at that point you will have two documents. When you request a true copy of the agreement, you are asking for just that not the copy one or two which are in fact just information about your agreement but a copy of the leagally binding document you signed.

After all if therei s no information on the agreement itself then what is "The Copy" a copy of?

 

Best regards

Peter

 

I don't understand......so, if the agreement they sent has one page with the prescribed terms on, and one with the sig....then that's ok as an agreement?

 

and, the t and c's can be an online print out headed "terms and conditions dated xx" And that's ok too?

 

Sorry if I'm being thick, lol.

[Peterbard]

I don't understand......so, if the agreement they sent has one page with the prescribed terms on, and one with the sig....then that's ok as an agreement?

 

and, the t and c's can be an online print out headed "terms and conditions dated xx" And that's ok too?

 

Sorry if I'm being thick, lol.

HI

 

There is no prescribed form for a heading within the regulations that says Terms and conditions so the "Term" should not even be in the agreement.

The agreement document may go over several pages it is a long document when it contains all it should but the document pages should be part and parcel of the agreement Page 1 page 2 page3 etc.

A document headed T and cs is a different document and as such cannot be linked to from within the agreement.

 

As for the online query yes many companies do put their Tand c's on line but access to these is not the same as haveing a true copy of your agreement they are just information sheets.

 

Regards

Peter