Cap1 & CCA return

[Peterbard]

Thanks Peter

 

I need to dig for more, cos' obviously im looking for sometyhing concrete for section 127 so it wont be enforceable if the judge decides to try and fall on their side

 

In my oppinion this is not acorrectly executed agrementIf you wan't an extnsive list of why not you will have to give me a more legible copy to look at in the mean time look at this.

1. 
   
2. 3.33 What if the initial interest rate is unknown?

The initial interest rate should generally be known by the creditor when the agreement is presented or sent to the debtor for signature. If so, it must be stated in the agreement – see Q3.32.

If the interest rate cannot be exactly ascertained by the creditor at that point, Reg 2(2) requires the use of estimated information based on reasonable assumptions, together with a statement of the assumptions made – see Q3.2. In the OFT’s view it should be made clear to the debtor in such cases that the rate is merely an estimate, and that the actual rate will be notified subsequently.

The OFT would, however, discourage creditors from entering into agreements under which the initial interest rate is unknown and so must be estimated. This is likely to be an important piece of information for the consumer in deciding whether to contract, and it is also a key ingredient of the APR calculation. Furthermore, it carries risks for the creditor as a court may not accept that the assumptions were reasonable in the individual circumstances, and the agreement may therefore be unenforceable – see Q1.19. If the interest rate is a prescribed term (see Q8.6) the agreement would be wholly unenforceable.

[ncf355]

Cheers PB

 

I've got that oft pdf so I'll hunt through it where youve mentioned

 

If you PM me your email address I'll send you a full on scan of the agreement to have a look through

 

Thanks for all your help

 

[m55dlc]

Whoa.. a couple of days away and suddenly I can see renewed passion, renewed zeal, renewed strength. So, do we go for gorilla tactics against these guys or do we do this by the book. Personally, I have long held the belief that I should use the list of newspapers and TV news companies in my posession (four hundred odd 'different' publications and broadcasters) listing our intention to go after certain CCP (erm, MBNA would be my choice) followed up by an email to the UK adult population telling them how secure CCP lending is from MBNA and that they should ask for a s78, followed up by a s85 default and not pay them a penny back. The email should also have a link to CAG for good measure and tell people to contact their MP. Therefore we'd have a CCP overwhelmed with requests, a groundswell of anti-bank charges through CAG and the elected MP's would get a kick up their ar**s to put consumers first. Banks would stop delivering £40BN profit returns off of the backs of the general public and we, the people, should take back control of the financial jungle.

 

I have the data, the means of delivery and the will, all I need is the small print to get past the legalities!

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Re Q 3.32 Do I have to state the initial interest rate?

Sch 1 paras 9 and 10 require that all credit agreements (other than fixed-sum agreements under which the total amount payable does not exceed the total cash price) must state the rate of interest on the credit to be provided. This must appear as part of ‘Other Financial Information’.

If there is more than one rate of interest, the agreement must indicate all the rates applicable together with details of when each rate applies . If rates are variable, this may also trigger the requirements in Sch 1 paras 18 and 19 – see Q3.28.

In the case of certain mortgage contracts, Sch 1 para 19A also requires a statement of the initial standard variable rate – see Q3.31.

 

 

 

Peter

re these balance transfers that occur when you open a credit card account say 5.9% fixed on balance transfers for say 9 months (and the long term interest rate is carefully hidden ) can you comment on these type of application forms thanks

[meagain]

Re Q 3.32 Do I have to state the initial interest rate?

Sch 1 paras 9 and 10 require that all credit agreements (other than fixed-sum agreements under which the total amount payable does not exceed the total cash price) must state the rate of interest on the credit to be provided. This must appear as part of ‘Other Financial Information’.

If there is more than one rate of interest, the agreement must indicate all the rates applicable together with details of when each rate applies . If rates are variable, this may also trigger the requirements in Sch 1 paras 18 and 19 – see Q3.28.

In the case of certain mortgage contracts, Sch 1 para 19A also requires a statement of the initial standard variable rate – see Q3.31.

 

As has been said before, the full tariff can be supplied separately as long as it is specifically referred to in the main part of the agreement.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Hi folks,

 

I'd appreciate you all taking a look at this and pointing out any issues with it - I'm currently thinking the prominence of 'This is a consumer credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974' isnt good enough - it should be where 'CITIBANK VISA CARD AGREEMENT' is, rather than down in the bottom section in minus 82 point text

 

Points - name, address of us taken out for MIB, along the very top is half the sig on behalf of the creditor - sig is literally a double squiggle, no name - I know we are still unsure as to what would constiute a valid sig by the creditors authorised agent?

 

Sig of us down bottom right and Citi reference number also taken out for MIB

 

Fire away folks!

 

 

 

is this any use + is there anything about data protection act 1998 ?

 

 

 

Q 5.6 Do the prescribed statements have to be in block capitals?

 

 

Reg 5(4) requires that where words are shown in capital letters in any form specified in Sch 2, they must be:

• more prominent than any other lettering in the form (other than as required by any relevant footnote); and

no less prominent than any other information in the document, apart from the main heading to the document (see Q2.8), trade names and names of parties, and any handwritten items.

 

 

Reg 5(4) provides that prominence may be satisfied by means of capital letters, underlining, large or bold print, or in any other way.

It is not necessary, therefore, for the words to be reproduced in block capitals in the agreement document. They may be afforded greater prominence in some other way.

 

==================================

 

 

 

 

5.7 How can I also satisfy the ‘equal prominence’ rule?

 

 

 

Reg 5(4) requires that where words are shown in capital letters in any form specified in Sch 2, they must be afforded more prominence than any other lettering in that form – see Q5.6. In the OFT’s view, this must be treated as an exception to the general rule in Reg 6(2) that the lettering of the terms of the agreement and any required information must (subject to the exceptions stated) be of equal prominence – see Q7.9.

It is not however permissible in the OFT’s view for wording to be shown in block capitals other than as specified in Sch 2 or Reg 6(2). This means for example that the secured loans warning may not be shown in block capitals in the agreement (unlike in advertising), although the heading to the warning may be – see Q5.10

 

 

Q 5.32 What about data protection warnings?

Certain warning statements are required under the Data Protection Act in accordance with guidance issued by the Information Commissioner.

Such statements must appear after all of the required information and the signature box. They may not appear before the signature box or near the head of the agreement, as this would be a breach of the ‘no interspersing’ rule in Reg 2(4) – see Q2.3.

The statements may however be of greater or lesser prominence than other information in the document. This is because the ‘equal prominence’ rule in Reg 6(2) applies only to the terms of the agreement and information included for the purposes of conforming to the Agreements Regulations – see Q7.7.

[ncf355]

Hi FC,

 

Thanks once again!

 

It sure looks like they are screwed to me, I'm looking forward to getting this into court

 

I've also had a form (application form for a CCA request ) recently from another CPP which states in large bold text to the right of the main content (and i mean LARGE text) "6.9 APR FIXED" (hmm, so the 21.9 APR I'm currently being charged? )

 

So even if they do get it agreed as a prescribed agreement I get a massive balance reduction for overcharged interest (though I'm quite sure that alone would void the whole thing?)

 

This does get stressful, but its also so much FUN at times

[zubo]

Whoa.. a couple of days away and suddenly I can see renewed passion, renewed zeal, renewed strength. So, do we go for gorilla tactics against these guys or do we do this by the book. Personally, I have long held the belief that I should use the list of newspapers and TV news companies in my posession (four hundred odd 'different' publications and broadcasters) listing our intention to go after certain CCP (erm, MBNA would be my choice) followed up by an email to the UK adult population telling them how secure CCP lending is from MBNA and that they should ask for a s78, followed up by a s85 default and not pay them a penny back. The email should also have a link to CAG for good measure and tell people to contact their MP. Therefore we'd have a CCP overwhelmed with requests, a groundswell of anti-bank charges through CAG and the elected MP's would get a kick up their ar**s to put consumers first. Banks would stop delivering £40BN profit returns off of the backs of the general public and we, the people, should take back control of the financial jungle.

 

I have the data, the means of delivery and the will, all I need is the small print to get past the legalities!

 

is that all you need i have that...

[TANZARELLI]

I still have yet to get my CCA from cap one and think its about time that I filed a claim as they have now defaulted. Without having to re-read all of this thread can someone please let me have access to wording for the POC. Also is there anything that I need to do first before doing this. I have to admit that I have been flicking in and out of this thread but not been giving it my full attention and for that I apologise.

 

Any help here would be useful.

 

Tanz

[tamadus]

ok folks I need some urgent info

 

Where is the bit about phone calls and not being allowed on sundays please ?

 

seems that LTSB dont like me anymore and the calls have started again despite them saying they wouldnt, its included 2 calls TODAY.

 

Writing back to them now and need an exact reference without trolling through 200 pages for it lol

 

I also need the exact prescribed terms for the signed part of the agreement as their latest reply definitely shows they are clutching at straws so I want to hit them hard this week

[meagain]

Don't think there is one. Something about "reasonable hours", which when I was making calls was 9am-9pm during the week, and rather shorter on weekends, though at HMRC we were definitely calling people at weekends.

[m55dlc]

From memory Tam, there isn't anything specific about Sundays. The timings are (and I'm recalling here, don't shoot me down) are 8.30 am to 9.00 pm.

 

The wording of what is acceptable is suitably wooly.

[tamadus]

Meagain I know sundays are specifically excluded in one of the regulatory body guidlelines so just need to know which one Sabbath and day of rest sort of thing

[tamadus]

M55 do you have the SI1983 (1553) detaisl regarding the prescribed terms on the signed agreement handy ?

 

I need the wording and section number

[Guest The Terminator]

ok folks I need some urgent info

 

Where is the bit about phone calls and not being allowed on sundays please ?

 

seems that LTSB dont like me anymore and the calls have started again despite them saying they wouldnt, its included 2 calls TODAY.

 

Writing back to them now and need an exact reference without trolling through 200 pages for it lol

 

I also need the exact prescribed terms for the signed part of the agreement as their latest reply definitely shows they are clutching at straws so I want to hit them hard this week

 

There you go Tam

 

http://www.thecreditagency.co.uk/OFT_Debt_Collection_Guidelines.pdf

[FANTASY CHARGES]

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

Communication

2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead

debtors as to their status, for example, documents made to resemble court

claims.

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who

they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the

contact is

d. unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language, for

example, use of Latin phrases

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times

g. ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect

of when and where to contact them, for example, shift workers who

ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day

h. asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate

telephone numbers

 

Charging for debt collection

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express

contractual or other legal provision

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay

collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there

is no contractual provision

c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any

charges payable on default COLLECTION CHARGES ????

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual

 

and necessary costs

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

 

 

==============================

TAM

HERE IS SORT OF THE BIT YOU WANT ???

COMMENTS OF THE

INSTITUTE OF CREDIT MANAGEMENT

ON THE OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING (OFT)

CONSULTATION PAPER ON

DEBT COLLECTION GUIDANCE FOR

CONSUMER CREDIT LICENCE HOLDERS AND APPLICANTS

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/71559-instituteofcreditmanageme-nt-response-oft.html

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting undue pressure on debtors or third parties, e.g. relatives, is considered to be

Oppressive

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals. Comments are

invited on whether OFT should specify what we consider to be reasonable. If so please

give us your views on what constitutes reasonable times and intervals

The Institute considers that there are real difficulties in prescribing reasonable times and intervals. If

these are to be stipulated, the OFT must take into account that there will always be scenarios that

necessitate contact outside the given timeframes because of the unique circumstances of certain

individuals, be it through work, religious beliefs or lifestyle. In some instances what might otherwise be

deemed an unreasonable time may have been requested by or is in agreement with the debtor. To limit a

reasonable degree of flexibility in any given timeframe might provide the unscrupulous debtor with an

opportunity to use the system to his or her advantage. (eg he/she might simply make himself ‘unavailable’

within the prescribed ‘reasonable’ hours). The Institute is also mindful that the Civil Procedure Rules

require a creditor to take all reasonable steps to resolve debt claims before resorting to legal action. If

methods and times of contact (in a fair and reasonable manner) are to be restricted, then this may leave

the creditor with little alternative but to sue. Consequently, this will increase the volume of consumer debt

cases that are referred to the County Court.

In normal circumstances (if such a thing as ‘normal circumstances’ could be said to exist), the Institute

would suggest the following hours as reasonable:

8 am to 9 pm Monday to Friday

9 am to 4 pm Saturday

9 am to 12 noon Sunday/Bank Holidays

 

i AM HIGHLIGHTING A COUPLE MORE POINTS AS WELL FOR OTHERS ARE 0870 NUMBERS PREMIUM RATE ???? (SORRY FOR THE CAPITALS)

[m55dlc]

the Institute

would suggest the following hours as reasonable:

 

 

8 am to 9 pm Monday to Friday

9 am to 4 pm Saturday

9 am to 12 noon Sunday/Bank Holidays

 

i AM HIGHLIGHTING A COUPLE MORE POINTS AS WELL FOR OTHERS ARE 0870 NUMBERS PREMIUM RATE ???? (SORRY FOR THE CAPITALS)

 

Suitably wooly, aren't they.

 

0870 numbers are premium, yes

 

Tam, I'm looking for the regs, but I think they're on a work email (and I'm not at work, obviously!) Can anyone else help tam on the regs front?

[zubo]

Sorry Tam, I am a bit of a squirrel - I have just drafted a response to LTSB who on Friday on my landline and mobile managed to call me no less than 5 times in 15 minutes - that IS harrassment, I think I posted my letter replying in the LTSB thread.

I picked on this for my source:

 

from: http://www.bdl.org.uk/images/03_ew_harassment.pdf

 

Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act also provides for certain other offences in respect of the

harassment of debtors, and section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988 provides for an

offence in respect of sending letters which convey a threat or false information with intent to cause

distress or anxiety.

 

“S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he-

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand,

or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

F

A

C

T

S

H

E

E

T

N

O

3

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.

(2) A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1) (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such actions as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.”

 

Both the Office of Fair Trading and trade associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered unfair":

 

Letters that look like court claims •

•

•

•

•

•

Not making it clear who the company is or what their role is

Unhelpful legal language

Not giving balance statements about the debt when asked

Contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to

Asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

“THOSE CONTACTING DEBTORS MUST NOT BE DECEITFUL BY MISREPRESENTING THEIR AUTHORITY AND/OR THE CORRECT LEGAL POSITION.”

This includes:

•

•

•

•

•

•

Claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff

Implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property

Using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body

Implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn’t

Implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence

Threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.

“PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE OPPRESSIVE.”

This includes:

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

Contacting you too frequently

Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt

Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company

Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford

Making threatening gestures or statements

Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money

Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.

“DEALINGS WITH DEBTORS ARE NOT TO BE DECEITFUL AND/OR UNFAIR.”

Examples include:

Sending letters addressed to “the occupier” or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you

•

•

•

•

Refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf

Not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make

Refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.

“CHARGES SHOULD NOT BE LEVIED UNFAIRLY”.

Examples include:

Claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn’t allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs

•

•

•

Not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement

Adding unreasonable charges.

“THOSE VISITING DEBTORS MUST NOT ACT IN AN UNCLEAR OR THREATENING MANNER.”

Collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call

•

•

•

•

They shouldn’t visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave

They should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to

They shouldn’t visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.

Harassment

2

HOW TO DEAL WITH HARASSMENT BY YOUR CREDITORS

• The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company’s behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.

• Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.

• It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved. Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards/consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the Magistrates Court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit licence.

• If Trading Standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The address is at the end of the factsheet. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.

• The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members. Details of the main trade associations are at the end of the factsheet under “Useful Addresses”.

OTHER OPTIONS

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the Magistrates Court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.

BT have a new service called "Choose to Refuse" which might help if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a pin number after a call. The caller will then get an automated message if you don’t wish to take their call when they ring. The cost of the service is £8.00 per quarter.

If you receive a telephone service from another provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.

You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing “distress or anxiety”. A person found guilty can be fined in the Magistrates Court. To prosecute successfully, the letter or article sent would have to convey:-

A message which is indecent or grossly offensive

A threat; or

Information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.

The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section 4a makes it a criminal offence to cause “Harassment, alarm or distress” with intent by using “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”. This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.

The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put “people in fear of violence”. Harassment

3

The harassment must happen on at least 2 separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence.

•

USEFUL ADDRESSES

The Finance & Leasing Association (FLA)

2nd Floor, Imperial House

15-19 Kingsway

London WC2B 6UN

Tel No: 020 7836 6511

http://www.fla.org.uk

The Consumer Credit Trade Association (CCTA)

Suite 8, The Wool Exchange

10 Hustlergate

Bradford

BD1 1RE

Tel: 01274 390 380

CCTA (Consumer Credit Trade Association)CCTA (Consumer Credit Trade Association)

Credit Services Association Ltd (CSA)

(For Debt Collection Agencies)

Wingrove House

2nd Floor East

Ponteland Road

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE5 3DP

Tel: 0191 286 5656

welcome to the csa group

Consumer Credit Association (CCAUK)

Queens House

Queens Road

Chester CH1 3BQ

Tel No: 01244 312 044

Promoting business and consumer relations in the credit industry – Consumer Credit Association – United Kingdom

Mail Order Traders’ Association (MOTA)

7 Floor

100 Old Hall Street

Liverpool

L3 9TD

Tel: 0151 227 9456

(No website)

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2 – 6 Salisbury Square

London

EC4Y 8JX

Tel No: 08457 224 499

The Office of Fair Trading: making markets work well for consumers

If your complaint is against a solicitors firm acting for a creditor, a complaint can be made to:

Consumer Complaints Service

The Law Society

Victoria Court

8 Dormer Place

Leamington Spa CV32 5AE

Tel No: 0845 608 6565

Law Society of England and Wales - Home

Remember: you can always contact us for advice about any difficulty you have in dealing with your debts.

Freephone: 0808 808 4000

Website: National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000

© Copyright National Debtline 1994 (updated December 2004)

Whilst we endeavour to keep our factsheets as up to date as possible, National Debtline cannot be held responsible for changes in legislation or for developments in caselaw since this edition of the factsheet was issued.

Harassment

[tamadus]

thanks to all they phoned me at 7 pm today and again 5 minutes later so definitely outside the guidleines

 

Term I'll be mailing you shortly with something they have raised.

[Guest The Terminator]

But doe's it not state in S189 of the CCA(1974) the definition of a working day.

 

Meagain: If HMRC phoned me on a sunday the only words that would greet them is f off.

 

So my point is if DCA'S can call you on a Sunday then why can't weekends be used in the 12,30 and 40 day rule.It seems to me that this isn't a level playing field so if you look at my point you will realize why.

[zubo]

thanks to all they phoned me at 7 pm today and again 5 minutes later so definitely outside the guidleines

 

Term I'll be mailing you shortly with something they have raised.

 

Tam, I'm interested too - I'll pm you

[meagain]

So my point is if DCA'S can call you on a Sunday then why can't weekends be used in the 12,30 and 40 day rule.It seems to me that this isn't a level playing field so if you look at my point you will realize why.

 

12 is working days, 30 is not 30 but a calendar month, and 40 is calendar days.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi folks,

 

I'd appreciate you all taking a look at this and pointing out any issues with it - I'm currently thinking the prominence of 'This is a consumer credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974' isnt good enough - it should be where 'CITIBANK VISA CARD AGREEMENT' is, rather than down in the bottom section in minus 82 point text

 

Points - name, address of us taken out for MIB, along the very top is half the sig on behalf of the creditor - sig is literally a double squiggle, no name - I know we are still unsure as to what would constiute a valid sig by the creditors authorised agent?

 

Sig of us down bottom right and Citi reference number also taken out for MIB

 

Fire away folks!

 

 

Hi

 

The prescribed terms ARE shown on this agreement (contrary to what Peter says )

 

Under financial and Related Particulars:

 

No. 1 states that the credit limit will be determined and notified to you - an acceptable format

 

No. 2 states the rate of repayment and when payments must be made - both in acceptable format

 

No. 3 states the monthly interest rate and the APR - again acceptable formats

 

What this document is missing is two of the statutory statements :

 

The one that states you may sue the creditor or the supplier for breach by the supplier as per s75 of the Act.

 

Plus the statement limiting liability for loss or misuse of the credit token.

 

So as far as I can tell this document is improperly executed and unenforceable without an order of the court but not wholly unenforceable.

 

 

The creditor's signature is in an odd place but is still there so personally I don't think the court would make anything of that.

 

Sorry!!

 

Regards, Pam

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Just been looking at some old unused application forms for credit cards one 7 years old & it folds into 4 parts

and unfolded it is 7.25 inches by 16.25 inches tall !!!

 

 

now ask yourself how the H*ll are they going to photocopy scan or whatever anything that size and don't forget to photocopy/scan the back as well

 

these application forms are what we call "user unfriendly" & clumbersome and due to this literally due to their absence worth their weight in gold literally.

 

thank god due to their greed they stuck the crapp about PPI on making them unneccessary large

 

this cheeky form has also got a box on it for the bank to sign on the application form ..HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE .. & yet it is not even a pre-filled in form with your address on it ...... so hand it to your neighbour get them to sign it and that's your lot in their world !!!!

 

TERMS AND CONDITIONS START ON THE FRONT AND CONTINE ONTO THE BACK (UNLUCKY !!)

[joesoap]

Like ncf, I would like to paste a copy of my supposed CCA for a spot of scrutiny; unfortunately, although copied, I'm having trouble pasting it. I haven't attempted to do this before in this situation. Can someone tell mr thicky what to do please? Cheers.