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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Cap1 & CCA return


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THey also haven't provided a copy of the original agrremnet under section 85 which allows them to vary the terms , or a copy of the CCA 1974, which is referred to

 

Mike

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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Paying off lower interest sumd before higher interest sums

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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Passing personal information outside the country without safeguard

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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Mike, there is a very good reason why this button appears below every one of your posts.

 

edit.gif

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Guest The Terminator
On a separate matter presumably this

 

 

 

means that this was printed in Sept 2006 and is not your t&c's at all!

 

These are the ones from 2006 and as I said in my post there are at least 10 unfair terms and 10 breaches of the CCA.All im highlighting is that these t&c only work one way in favour of the lender.The T&C im after are the ones from 1998 when the account was opened.

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Folowing the letter i recieved from the DTI regarding the 77-79 CCa request and the mater of how to validate an unsigned agreement as a true copy I have sent the folloing reply which has been forwarded to them via my MP.

RE Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your response to my query regarding the Sections 77-79 of the consumer Credit Act 2006.

 

I have read the reply and have the following comments

 

Perhaps I was not clear in my original correspondence; I am aware that Sections77-79 applies to executed agreements and is therefore post contractual. My point was this: I can understand why the production of unsigned copies of a contract might be understandable on a pre-executed document; the prospective client may want to examine the terms and conditions before signing.

 

When a debtor requests a copy of executed agreement it is usually to, check on the amount owed on the account, or to facilitate a voluntary termination settlement, or to check an early settlement penalty’s, interest rates applied to the accounts etc. Therefore it is essential that the copy he/she receives is a true copy of the original.

 

The question is: how the creditor to validate the agreement as a true copy without a signature?

 

The agreement may have been made some years ago realistically there is no telling haw many changes have been made on it due to changes in company policies or interest rates etc. As we all know just a word or even a punctuation mark in a contract can alter the meaning completely. It seems a little unlikely that the normal person would be able to authenticate what could be a five page document as being a true copy of the original.

 

 

 

 

The answer from the DTI is that, if you disagree with that a true copy has been sent then it will be up to the court to judge whether to enforce without a signed agreement. I am sure that the judge would not be impressed with an action being brought when it could have been resolved by the inclusion of a signature on a duplicate document.

 

The facts of the matter are that most people do not want to go to court to prove the existence of a contract they would just leave it at that and accept the creditor’s word , is this good enough?

 

Realistically and with the best will in the world is the creditor going to send a copy of an agreement that may be 6 years old, is it suggested that creditors keep copies of all unsigned agreements even though they are out of date? What will be sent is a copy of the current documenting which undoubtedly will have been altered over the interceding period.

 

If the creditor was going to send an unsigned copy of the original he would have to cover the signature box and again why he would bother as a complete document would prove its validity.

 

I am worried that this will impact on the less well off in our society mostly, the ones who have to deal with high interest rate or doorstep lenders where the CCA is already being flaunted outrageously and remove one of the few legal recourses that they have to ensure that they are being treated fairly.

 

The position is made worse by the rescinding of section 127 sections 3-5 of the CCA when the CCA2006 comes into force; these sections prohibited the courts from enforcing an incorrectly or unexecuted agreement. This was a safety net and prohibited the enforcement of incorrectly executed documents which include those that were not signed.

 

Also with the removal of the £25000 limit on the agreements being regulated by the act I would have thought that total accuracy of financial information was more than ever required due to the sums involved.

 

I would welcome your comments and recommendations

 

 

Peter

The correspodance recieved form my MP indicates that I should have a reply within a month.

I will Keep you posted.

Cheers Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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... where the CCA is already being flaunted outrageously ...

 

The word is flouted. :)

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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You know meagain your abloloutly right.;)

 

Still I think they might get the idea

 

Rears

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Thanks we will see if it does any good.

 

Regs

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Guest The Terminator
Mike, is this with respect to the Data Protection Act? If so, it should state outside the EC.
Not only the DPA and im sure HRA. I did find something in the CCA:

 

174 Restrictions on disclosure of information

(1) No information obtained under or by virtue of this Act about any individual shall be disclosed without his consent.

(2) No information obtained under or by virtue of this Act about any business shall be disclosed except, so long as the business continues to be carried on, with the consent of the person for the time being carrying it on.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to any disclosure of information made—

(a) for the purpose of facilitating the performance of any functions, under this Act, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 or Part II or III or section 125 (annual and other reports of Director) of the Fair Trading Act 1973 or the Estate Agents Act 1979 or the Competition Act 1980 or the Telecommunications Act 1984 or the Gas Act 1986 or the Airports Act 1986 or the Consumer Protection Act 1987 or Part II of the Consumer Protection (Northern Ireland) Order 1987 or the Control of Misleading Advertisements Regulations 1988 or the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 or the Railways Act 1993 or the Coal Industry Act 1994 or the Water Act 1989 the Water Act 1991 or any of the other consolidation Acts (within the meaning of section 206 of that Act of 1991) or the Electricity Act 1989 or the Electricity (Northern Ireland) Order 1992 or the Gas (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 or Part I of the Transport Act 2000 or Part IV of the Airports (Northern Ireland) Order 1994 of the Secretary of State, any other Minister, the Director General of Telecommunications, the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority the Civil Aviation Authority the Director General of Water Services, or the Director General of Electricity Supply for Northern Ireland or the Director General of Gas for Northern Ireland the Rail Regulator the Authorised Conveyancing Practitioners board, the Coal Authority any enforcement authority or any Northern Ireland department, or

(b) in connection with the investigation of any criminal offence or for the purposes of any criminal proceedings, or

© for the purposes of any civil proceedings brought under or by virtue of this Act or under Part III of the Fair Trading Act 1973 or under the Control of Misleading Advertisements Regulations 1988.

(3A) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to any disclosure of information by the Director to the Financial Services Authority for the purpose of—

(a) enabling or assisting the Authority to discharge any of its functions;

(b) enabling or assisting the Director to discharge any of his functions under this Act or the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

(4) Nothing in subsections (1) and (2) shall be construed—

(a) as limiting the particulars which may be entered in the register; or

(b) as applying to any information which has been made public as part of the register.

(5) Any person who discloses information in contravention of this section commits an offence.

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Just received this reply from Ian McCartney, via my MP

 

Page 1

 

Page 2

 

Page 3

 

I've underlined interesting bits.

 

The final paragraph on page 2 is interesting because it's ambiguous; does it mean that all agreements will come under it's remit, or only new agreements entered into following enactment? I'm writing back for clarification.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Thanks Number 6 - very informative.

 

That bit on page is ambiguous and worry, if it does mean that!

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

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Guest The Terminator
S174 was repealed by the Enterprise Act 2002, Terminator - which when you actually read it passes the buck to the Data Protection Act.

Cheers

Rosie

 

Thanks for pointing that out repealed under 247(d) of the Enterprise Act(2002)

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Guest The Terminator
Just received this reply from Ian McCartney, via my MP

 

Page 1

 

Page 2

 

Page 3

 

I've underlined interesting bits.

 

The final paragraph on page 2 is interesting because it's ambiguous; does it mean that all agreements will come under it's remit, or only new agreements entered into following enactment? I'm writing back for clarification.

 

Pete

 

Pete I could only just make out the print but I'm sure it's only new agreements after April when the amendments kick in.

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It would have to be. In general, laws are not retrospective, so surely the provisions of the Act which apply are those as were in force at the time the agreement was originally formed.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Hi

The letter is pretty similar to the one i recieved earlier the reply to which is posted in this thread.

It does seem that there seems to be a difference of opinion between the transitional arrangments in the CCA 2006(Below) and the response in your letter.

ODD

 

"1 The repeal by this Act of—

 

(a) the words “(subject to subsections (3) and (4))” in subsection (1) of

section 127 of the 1974 Act,

(b) subsections (3) to (5) of that section, and

© the words “or 127(3)” in subsection (3) of section 185 of that Act,

has no effect in relation to improperly-executed agreements made before the commencement of section 15 of this Act. "

 

In other words all agreement improperly execued and unsigned prior to April 6th are unenforceable even after the act is introduced

  • Haha 1

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Pete I could only just make out the print but I'm sure it's only new agreements after April when the amendments kick in.

 

Logically would have assumed so, however that's not what the letter says. It says it will apply to all agreements; this may be a misprint or a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.

 

I've written back to my MP requesting urgent clarification.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Pete I could only just make out the print but I'm sure it's only new agreements after April when the amendments kick in.

 

Here's the OCR'd text for you - hope it's clearer:

 

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I thank you for your further letter of 24 November, enclosing

correspondence from your constituent about the Consumer Credit Act

1974 (CCA) and its operation in conjunction with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (CCR).

 

What constitutes a copy under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA

1974) is construed in accordance with section 180 of the CCA. Section

180 states, amongst other things, that Regulations may be made as to

the form and content of copy documents and also says that the duty to

provide a copy of the executed agreement is not infringed by the omission of material that is authorised to be omitted by Regulations. The relevant regulations are the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Regulation 3 states that subject to the following provisions every copy

shall be a ‘true copy’. It then goes on to set out what may be omitted

from a copy. As I mentioned in my previous reply, section 3(2)(a) states that “any signature box, signature or date of signature” (apart from in a

copy agreement sent under 63(1) of the Act) may be omitted. In every other sense the copy must be a ‘true copy’.

 

 

Apart from the things that the Regulations say can be omitted from the copy, the copy must be a ‘true’ copy of the executed agreement. To be an executed agreement, it would have had to have been signed originally and contain all the terms of the agreement. All the Regulations allow is some things to be omitted from copies, not from the original executed agreement which still have to comply with section 61 of the Act. The rationale for allowing signatures to be omitted on copies is that they may not be essential for the borrower’s purpose at that stage, and it may be quicker and less costly for lenders to access unsigned copies of the agreement on computer than hard copies of the original, signed agreement.

In the case of a dispute the lender would need to produce the original, signed agreement in order to be able to enforce it.

 

Section 15 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 (CCA 2006) provides that subsections (3) to (5) of section 127 of the CCA 1974 shall cease to have effect. The CCA 1974 provides that, in certain circumstances, where the requirements of the Act in relation to regulated agreements are not complied with, the agreement is only enforceable by an order of the Court. Prior to the CCA 2006, the section also provided that the Court could not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 6 1(1) was not fully complied with. What this meant in practice was that the Court could not make an order enforcing an agreement where there was a very minor, technical problem with the agreement and therefore it didn’t strictly comply with section 61(1) - the agreement could be unenforceable on a very minor technicality even when the lender has acted in good faith and there was nothing of substance wrong with the agreement.

All the deletion of section 127(3) - (5) does is mean that the court will have the power to determine, in its discretion, whether agreements are enforceable in accordance with section 127(1) and (2) regardless of the breach in question. It does not mean, as has been suggested by your constituent, that the court will allow the enforcement of debts without evidence of a credit agreement.

 

The 2006 Act is being commenced in stages, some provisions have already come into force and others will not be commenced until April 2008. The provisions relating to section 127 will apply to all agreements from the moment the section is commenced, which is due to occur on 6 April 2007.

 

The Office of Fair Trading is responsible for the enforcement of consumer credit legislation. If your constituent has any concrete examples of where business is engaging in abuse of the rules, I am sure they would be happy to receive details in order to resolve the matter.

 

IAN McCARTNEY

 

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Yep

Pretty much word for word only the one i recieved had a bit in it about a application form not being accepatable as an agreement.

By the way if you want to look it up the transitional provision i quoted above is Schedule 3 section 11 of the 2006.

It is worth looking at some of the other transitional arrangements there as not all commence at the inception of the section of the act.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I have to laugh at the very last paragraph, we have been telling them for months about lenders abusing the rules, Why does Ian McCartney think he is getting so many questions all of a sudden?

 

Very much like all the other replies we have seen, says a lot while saying very little.:mad:

Alliance & leicester:Settled 8/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester-successes/19700-tamadus-l.html?highlight=tamadus

Capital One:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/16644-tamadus-capital-one.html?highlight=tamadus

MBNA 2 accounts:Settled 22/9/06 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/13831-tamadus-mbna-i.html?highlight=tamadus

Smile:Settled 15/11/06

Egg Card:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 2/10/06

GE Money:S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent3/8/06 LBA sent 26/9/06

Abbey:ERC prelim sent 14/9/06. LBA sent 2/10/06. Now it's getting interesting so keep watching

Barclaycard:In criminal default watch this space

Lloyds TSB:In criminal default watch this space

 

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

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Re: the last paragraph-

"The Office of Fair Trading is responsible for the enforcement of consumer credit legislation. If your constituent has any concrete examples of where business is engaging in abuse of the rules, I am sure they would be happy to receive details in order to resolve the matter".

 

Yup, thats all very well and good but...

How does one put pressure on TS (consumer arm or the OFT) to prosecute the offending firm?

 

I, as you know reported MS to TS prior to Christmas, TS are still at the 'Intelligence Purposes Only' stage - meaning they have not yet contacted MS.

Apparently, there ar other issues that have to be taken into consideration, prior to TS taking action-

1. Budget

2. Consumer Safety

3. Proportionality

4. What is in the Publics Interest

 

I am informed that even if TS/OFT discover that a breach has indeed occured, resulting in the 'Criminal Offence', it may well be that the only result will be a...Warning!!!

 

We will see!?

 

However, I am informed that I can still proceed with a civil action against the offender.

 

To be honest Guys, I am kind of sitting on the fence here waiting to see what action TS will take, if any...time will tell.

 

Has there been a successful action regarding this matter which would provide case law?

 

AC

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Very much like all the other replies we have seen, says a lot while saying very little.:mad:

 

Hi Tam, I think it actually says quite a lot:

 

It confirms once and for all that an application form cannot be construed as an agreement.

 

It confirms that the courts cannot currently enforce any agreement that does not comply in totality with CCA 1974 S61(1)

 

It confirms that a copy agreement has to be a true copy, i.e. identical to the original with only the signatures and boxes removed - i.e. a "generic" T&C type document simply will not do.

 

I think it's a very useful piece of back-up data that could be put under a judges nose.

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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